The Doom Thread: Gloom, Despair, Agony

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Knave, Oct 25, 2024.

  1. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More broadly -- and in an attempt to legitimately educate the readers here -- citizens in an authoritarian regime have three choices: EVL, or Exit - Voice - Loyalty.

    https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/pegroup/files/clark_golder.pdf

    Exit : get the ******** out.

    Voice : protest. Constantly. Think South Korea or France. Think Euromaidan. One protest march a month don't cut it.

    Loyalty : uhh, all of you.

    If you exit, you deprive the regime of wealth it can expropriate. If you voice, you can show the public in raw numbers the scale of opposition and force democratization/halt backsliding.

    If you don't engage wholeheartedly in either of these things, you are Loyal to the regime. Grumble all you want. Complain all you want. In the end, you are loyal to authoritarianism.

    And I think that's stupid.
     
  2. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And many of us have family who can’t or won’t leave.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It takes a particular level of arrogance from 99% of the posters on this forum to, in one breath, refuse (the generous interpretation) to read my posts, and then get mad at me for not understanding them.

    I *get* why you are all Loyal! I understand! I've been saying the same things to my family, most of whom have small children.

    My point remains. Here in Britain, we have the BBC. We would read about sustained, mass protests over there. They aren't happening. And I would read here in P&CE about many of you moving overseas.

    Since neither of those things have transpired, the only logical explanation is you're all loyal to the autocratic, personalistic, dictatorial regime. This entire thread is a Doom thread, but only one where dark Soviet-style jokes can be made.

    At least have the courage to admit you would rather quietly grumble under a dictatorship than openly challenge it. Be honest. All I ask.
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://bsky.app/profile/brendannyhan.bsky.social/post/3lxchnuinpc2i

    Sorry for the threepeat: Brendan Nyhan, political scientist, making my point for me. If your actions now aren't active protest, then you have acquiesced to dictatorship. Grumble away, but how dare you accuse other people of actually fighting back. Don't be angry at me.
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not arrogance. It's awareness that "pack up and leave right now" isn't an option. That doesn't mean I'm not making contingency plans; my wife is an EU citizen and we own a property in an EU country we can move to whenever we want. I'm looking into ways to get the ball rolling on getting my citizenship process started now rather than wait until I'm over there (may not happen but worth a try). We are looking into ways to minimize the hit that a weakened dollar will inflict on our retirement savings if we do end up in the EU.

    And on the topic of being an upper-middle-class (straight) white man--YES, as a matter of fact, that is true. That means I, currently, have some sociopolitical privilege that many of the people I work with and supervise--and many of the patrons my library system serves--don't have. That gives me a bit of leverage with civic and local political leaders to defend things like access to LGBT+ materials in our collection (which I'm currently doing), or push for a more robust and wide-ranging collection of non-English materials to serve one of the most diverse populations of any county in the USA (something I'm also currently doing), or mentor some of the younger queer, female, non-white, and non-binary staff members who are nervous that library administration or county government will be willing to sell at least some of them out if the political climate in Virginia gets even worse (yet again--something I'm currently doing).

    I try to do this stuff low-key and not make it about me, and it kinda pisses me off that I'm feeling pressured from a stranger on a message board to justify the ways in which I'm choosing to stand my ground as a librarian and defend both the values of my profession and the integrity of the organization I work for, but being accused of cowardice because I haven't ran my plan for resistance by you for your approval really rubs me the wrong way.

    If my decision to stick around with my fellow public librarians to try to defend one of the last great civic institutions still standing in this failed republic ends up leaving me stranded, so be it.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sorry but it's not what meets "my approval." Defenders of democracy across the entire world are astounded at how quickly and easily Americans have capitulated.

    Protesting in the street is meant to be costly. Exiting is meant to be costly. I know I will miss family funerals, weddings, graduations. That's the point.

    Live with the accusation. I'm not apologizing for it. If anything, a thread that claims to be about the doom of America should have more posters saying "ya brought it about on yourselves."
     
  7. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    The only problem with leaving is that it negates the possibility of revenge.
     
    luftmensch, Dr. Wankler and toad455 repped this.
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it doesn't. It never has. Exiles throughout history have always had the chance to return when the regime is removed.
     
  9. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Club: San Diego FC
    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don't have the slightest fvcking idea what some of us are doing to fight this regime. You're safe overseas. Sit down.
     
  10. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I'm not sure I'm going to live that long.
     
    Auriaprottu repped this.
  11. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Not sure what I'm more insulted by: being called elderly or the fact you think I'm wealthy when I can barely pay my every month.
     
    Dr. Wankler and spejic repped this.
  12. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I haven't violated the TOS and I'm 100% in the right on the merits. So, if you please, I will continue being angry at the US majority for not being in the streets every day, for there being no general strike, for all of you continuing your daily lives as they were before January.

    You're all properly doomed.
     
    song219 repped this.
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He ignored that part of my post, and that's fine. I'm not going to go into more detail because I'm not going to give Moms for Liberty more ways to ID me.
     
  14. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, one piece of advice activists share on BlueSky is "Don't talk about everything you're doing on social media" which seems like better advice than "Be sure to check in to BigSoccer everytime you attend a rally or join a march."

    FFS.
     
  15. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I started reading The Nazi Mind this past weekend. Setting aside the gas chamber stuff for a moment, the through line in what I'm seeing from abroad is shocking. It's stark, truly. Every single step is happening, and it's being speed run on steroids.

    This. Is. Fascism.

    America, wake the ******** up. Protest on mass, now. Sadly, this train won't stop now without physical harm to your own population.
     
    spejic, superdave, Sounders78 and 2 others repped this.
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Virginia elections this Fall are going to be a test run for the regime. Don't know if they'll succeed, but at the very least they're going to force at least a few people on the fence to see what's actually happening.

    The problem with right now is that most Americans are still seeing what's happening as a bunch of discrete events, not a single authoritarian plan. That's one problem with being a continent-spanning nation with multiple large & influential metropolitan areas rather than a capital city where all the action is.
     
  17. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    What you and your countrymen need to do is to crush any sympathetic pr0-Trump groups arising in your country in embryo. The analogy is the 1930's when Nazi or pro Nazi organizations arose all over Europe.
     
    Sounders78 and bigredfutbol repped this.
  18. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ask yourself "What would Merrick Garland do?" and then do the opposite.
     
    Dr. Wankler, Sounders78 and song219 repped this.
  19. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The UK Labour party are also dropping the ball here, big time.
     
  20. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    edited for brevity and clarity
     
    luftmensch, Quakes05 and bigredfutbol repped this.
  21. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't ignore it. I was explicitly saying it was not nearly enough.
     
  22. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you think working to fix civil society from the ground up is a distraction from resisting authoritarianism, I can't help you. If you think planting the seeds for future resistance is a waste of time, I can't help you. If you think finding ways to build solidarity with marginalized people in the here and now is not central to the whole project of building an opposition that can go the distance--again, I can't help you.
     
    luftmensch, Dr. Wankler and Mike03 repped this.
  23. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Club: San Diego FC
    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As long as the Brits and the rest of the free world keep trying to placate Trump instead of standing up and telling him to fvck all the way off, you’re just as doomed as we are in the long run.
     
  24. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Stop trying to make yourself sound more valiant than you are. I left; not very brave but consistent with EVL.


    I agree, and so do the roughly 1/3 of Labour voters who have defected to the Greens and LibDems this past year.
     
  25. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing I am grappling with--I recently withdrew from being an active committee member of the local Democratic party, because the state leadership seems hopelessly not up to the challenge. FFS, our candidate for Governor (my previous Congressional rep who, to be clear, I like a lot in many ways) is still putting out ads bragging about how 'bipartisan' she is. Senators Kaine and Warner have voted for as many Trump appointees as any Democrats in the Senate, and Warner has been flirting with "anti-woke" rhetoric. There was the Gerry Connelly debacle. And so on.

    So I told my colleagues, "Sorry guys, I'm not interested in playing the role of 'Loyal Opposition' in a fascist regime--once you start acting like the stakes are as high as they are, I'll come back". But...I still believe we need the Democrats to win the Old Dominion this Fall. I am cautiously optimistic that's going to happen, but if Winsome-Sears closes the gap, or the Democrats hold on either the House of Delegates or the State Senate looks under threat--do I swallow my pride, start answering my email again, and suck it up to canvas and campaign again for a cadre of lukewarm milquetoast centrists who will at least keep the GOP's hands off the levers of power in the Commonwealth? Would that be a real victory, or just style points for Face the Nation to hem and haw about?

    I don't know. I'm unconvinced electoral politics are our way out of this.
     
    Dr. Wankler, Mike03 and superdave repped this.

Share This Page