"the dignity of the republic and its symbols"

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by quicksand, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. quicksand

    quicksand Member

    May 7, 2000
    Brooklyn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1069935,00.html
    I hadn't heard anything about that before today. I wonder what the punishment is?
     
  2. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    My prediction is that the silence from the same lefties who criticize the US government for allowing students to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school will be deafening.
     
  3. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Hmmm. Of course, you could just view this as yet another nail in the coffin of the idea that you're all that different to France ...
     
  4. quicksand

    quicksand Member

    May 7, 2000
    Brooklyn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What similar law is there in the US?
     
  5. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There isn't one.

    It's not like it is in England where it is considered libel to speak against the Royal family, as in the recent Prince Charles allegations.
     
  6. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Time to prove you wrong: I think it's appalling, pathetic, jingoistic garbage. But I'm not a French citizen, so there's not much I can do about it, now, is there?
     
  7. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    How quickly they forget. When it's convenient for them, of course.

    I seem to recall a furor over flag burning here, featuring various national politicians lining up to pontificate on the sacredness of the flag and tripping over each other to pass laws making burning it, stepping on it, or looking at it funny illegal.

    Anyway, you all seem to have missed a term in the article:

    "Mr. Sarkozy was described as an 'excellent' or 'good' right-wing presidential candidate by 50% of those polled for a survey published in the weekly Le Point magazine."

    Who did they poll to choose who people thought of as a good right wing candidate? I also wonder who people chose as a good left wing candidate or if such a survey was ever done.
     
  8. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    What in the world are you smoking? You think because he is French that "liberals" will give him a free pass??? As someone else pointed out, if he were in America, he'd be right there next to Rumsfeldand Ashcroft in line for abuse from the left. And deservedly so. As it stands, there isn't much we can do about it, except to make sure Bush doesn't get re-elected in 2004, and whoever takes his place makes it clear to France that we would not be happy if that nut came to power.
     
  9. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    My obsession with Bridget Bardot prohibits me from every criticising anything french, even fascist french.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK her face doesn't look that good there. Those teeth look British.
     
  11. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    Like you'd throw her out of bed for eating brie....
     
  12. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    well, my google search was:

    bridget bardot any picture even one that some people would think is ugly
     
  13. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    If you're looking at her teeth, you're either a dentist or there's something wrong with you... :D
     
  14. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    [​IMG]
    "Was that you whistling ohhhhmaaaahn?"
     
  15. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This post has such a serious spin that you just struck out Barry Bonds. No one is against "allowing" "students" to say the Pledge. They are against school administrations mandating it.
     
  16. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    brie, without a doubt I would. Crackers, well that's another story.

    Or I could just put a flag over her face and *#*#*#*# her for my country.
     
  17. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The hottest thing to ever grace a Parisian screen.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. csc7

    csc7 New Member

    Jul 3, 2002
    DC
    yet further evidence that Axis Alex has no understanding of politics in foreign countries. hint, Chirac is a member of the conservative party in France. This guy is that party's response to the strong showing of the National Front candidate in the last presidential election.

    another hint for you, Blair is the leader of the Labour Party in the UK. That's the one on the left (center left now) of the UK political system.
     
  19. gildarkevin

    gildarkevin Member

    Aug 26, 2002
    Washington, DC
    In France the punishment is basically a misdemeanor. The law hasn't actually been invoked in France since De Gaulle left office, but there was a story about someone being arrested in 1954, I think, for yelling "hoo hoo" at his motorcade as it passed during a parade (in France, that is an insult -- I believe it's mimicking the sound of a goat).

    The fact that these so-called "insult laws" (in Spanish speaking countries they are known as "desacato") exist in more modern nations such as France are a continuing problem even if they are not enforced. They serve as an example to their former colonial republics who base their laws on their former masters. For instance, countries such as Senegal will point to France's law as justification for its own similar law. And then Senegal, which has nowhere near the same protections for freedom of expression or the press, will actually enforce that law, often only selectively. The laws may prohibit insult of anything from just the head of state, to the criticism of other officials, official symbols or the state itself.

    The comparison to libel laws makes it easy to explain these horrid insult laws but it's not quite the same. First, many libel laws are civil in nature only, not criminal. Second, and more importantly, even when a country has criminal defamation on its books, there are minute differences. The most important is that usually truth is a defense in a criminal defamation prosecution -- if the statement is true, it's not defamatory (except in the US, where truth has to be proven by the plaintiff) However, insult laws prohibit even truthful statements that would tend to injure the official's reputation.

    In the US, prohibition of flag burning was indeed the closest thing we've ever had to this type of law (unless you count the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 or the Espionage Act of 1919, but both were before the "modern" era of First Amendment rights). And, of course, these laws were declared unconstitutional in two different cases in 1989 and 1990.

    It's really sad that we're trying to bring back the prohibition of flag burning with repeated attempts at a constitutional amendment when there are actual attempts in other countries to eradicate their insult laws, which is the actual step in the right direction.
     
  20. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Let's go with french bashing.

    Being her corsican (so cousin) I own prelation rights.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. quicksand

    quicksand Member

    May 7, 2000
    Brooklyn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: How quickly they forget. When it's convenient for them, of course.

    I didn't read that as "good right-wing" but as "good candidate who happens to be right wing."

    I first heard about it here:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1082483,00.html
    Our good friend Sarkozy is considering invoking the law against a rap group.
     
  22. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Next to her:

    [​IMG]
     

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