The Democratic Party in Trump's Fascist 2nd Term. Commentary, Ideas & Strategy (+ non Woketicism)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Aug 24, 2025.

  1. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That's woke socialism. It'll play in NY but not in mainstream America, where we rightly recognize that niqqer kids will get things we don't want them to have if ALL children are given things for free. That keeps the children of the achievers (identified by income or financial assets) able to pay from getting the attention they alone deserve. </conservative in private>
     
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  2. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Why do you think he's pissing anyone off? This country is done with any facade of fairness or democracy, and frankly, I can read his or anyone else's posts and have a chuckle at them, particularly his. Dude's frustrated pep talks are a special kind of hoot in and of themselves.

    We're not going to become socialist, and we're not going to have a blue wave.
     
  3. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only name mentioned is Cheri Bustos, a former Congressperson from Illinois. More deregulation??? Good luck with that lady....
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The deregulation piece is obviously dumb in the context of trade and tightly integrated supply chains - Brexit showed that was all a fantasy

    However there is a real issue as regards Big Infra that's well documented in many countries - why do we struggle to build Energy, Housing, Rail, Bridges etc at scale.

    Planning regs is a huge part of that.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The irony of your post is regulation grew steadily throughout the neoliberal era of globalisation as we built integrated supply chains! The regulatory state is fun and great! So yes. Please regulate finance, supply chain, tech etc - it's a good thing!

    However in some areas we now run into hard limits of getting anything done - especially planning.

    IIRC this is most of what Klein talks about. esp. rail, housing and energy
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Biden actually had something like an abundance agenda for the middle class, but as his admin was a car crash on messaging, few knew about it, and he didn't deliver much of the infra spending. For instance on his green agenda, much of the money was not spent early enough to help shape a perception of progress.

    IMO the abundance types a correct about the part that it takes too long to deliver. Whereas in comparison, Trump will waste a fortune on ICE which will be quickly spent - but have no upside and hard the economy. Sigh.

    One thing Biden was right about, is that nominal GDP growth is quite critical to paying for your abundance agenda. If you have a lost decade like the UK, you get squeezed between the rising cost of public services and deteriorating public finances.
     
  7. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regardless of issues around infrastructure, starting a movement/coalition, from the Dem side nonetheless, around deregulation is at best tone deaf, if not totally moronic.
     
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  8. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    They figured out that despite their posturing that Republicans didn’t care about deregulation so they are going to try to get Democrats to.
     
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  9. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Has anyone even read the book that Klein wrote? Like at all?

    I'm looking at ordering it and someone told me the book boils down to making it easier to build housing and running more socially moderate candidates in red states. Nothing like what some people are thinking.
     
  10. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    At least we have one person doing Ezra Klein the right way.
     
  11. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Did you read the article?
     
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  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Deregulation is a bit of a misnomer - agree

    A lot of it is about planning process, compulsory acquisition of land etc
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I listened to interviews with both authors when it came out (I like Derek Thompson), and have read a number of critiques.

    An area where there is a lot of tension is sustainable development and environmental concerns.

    If you really want to dig in to the planning side, there are better essays and commentators - especially in the UK where this is a massive issue for the current labour government
     
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  14. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Well, since some people have real issues with labels round here :whistling:, deregulation has been a right-wing buzzword for "give corporations whatever they want and STFU Libs" So excuse our skepticism...
     
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  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'll be honest, I think the stuff about how much regulation negatively impacts areas like the development of infrastructure, housing, energy, etc. is WAY overdone.

    I've been on more than a few planning committees in my time and sometimes it's just a matter of doing the job you're meant to be doing with some bravery, even though you'll piss off somebody who doesn't want the houses, shops or roads to be where they need to be for the benefit of the whole community and the entire country.

    TBH I think this comes back to the question of the corruption of American politics which cuts in both directions.

    Sometimes it means allowing companies to drill oil or build roads where they shouldn't but, equally, it can mean stopping the building of houses and roads when that would be popular among the local nimbies.

    Also, again, this comes back to money because building low-cost housing for poor people is fecking hard because, y'know... they haven't got any money. Building big houses for rich people? How much money do you want?! :)

    So I think that simply bandying around phrases like 'regulation' isn't useful, WITHOUT specifying what we're talking about.
     
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  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ooh, you little scamp you!!!
     
  17. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I did....
     
  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I can see using a phrase like 'being responsive to the public' but 'deregulation', as a political phrase on the left, is daft... it's also missing the point, as I've just detailed.
     
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  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Essentially, yes. Deregulation, as a concept, has become too closely associated with tax cuts and removing environmental protection.
     
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  20. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ezra Klein lost me a while ago.....That dude seems fixated about winning hearts & minds of so called "moderate" republicans but to do so, he is willing to throw minorities under the bus. His opinion article about Charlie Kirk was truly embarrassing. As Ta-Nehesi Coates asked him on his podcast" Was silence not an option"?
     
  21. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I don't think moderate Dems are trying to do a GOP style deregulation. On some things, conservatives do have a point but the problem is they tend to be insane about it.

    As for infrastructure, on transit in Detroit, there was a potential transit bill that was also tied to a project that MI Dems drew up in order to attract businesses and people. Had everything you could dream of. Transit, housing, and so on. There was also money going to GM and Ford. That bill was killed by a Dem, a guy who also happened to be a DSA member (And worked with Bernie) because it pissed him off that there were corporate subsidies.

    It's why I always laugh at the people screaming about gentrification in Detroit for instance. It's a city that at it's peak went from 1.8 million people to at last check, 645k as of last year. There's neighborhoods that need homes and instead there's a guy putting up a sign that reads, "Hood Closed to Gentrifiers."

    If anything, most anti development stuff is people screaming about how they want it be 1995 again. At least with the NIMBYs both left and right I've encountered anyway.
     
  22. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Where has Klein said he is willing to throw minorities under the bus?
     
  23. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    So he is a P&CE IC you're sayin? :eek:
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It's certainly not overdone in that it is way harder to build massive infra projects back in the 50s 60s & 70s than it is now.

    Heathrow and HS2 are great examples of that.

    It's fine if projects don't proceed for planning reasons, but a big issue is stuff ends up being in limbo for many years and nothing gets done.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    if we are going to have this conversation, its maybe better to leave Klein out of it.

    There are plenty of other people who have written about it and are much more qualified

    especially in housing and energy.
     

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