The definition of a dive (R)

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Michael CM1, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Michael CM1

    Michael CM1 New Member

    Jun 5, 2002
    Atlanta, Georgia: US
    Is not going from an upright position on the ball and then starting to fall when a dude slides into your feet. Geez, you figure Wynalda would actually know a dive when he saw one.

    In other news, thanks a friggin lot Dennis! I guess I didn't need to see DC-KC anyways. Couldn't have come on another day of course.
     
  2. Crewbasher

    Crewbasher Member

    Jul 7, 1999
    The Enemy Base
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You want to see a dive? Check out Mapp's Pescadito-esque belly flop to draw a PK against the Revs tonight. There was contact between him and Leonard, to be sure, but about 5 seconds after they separated, Mapp goes airborne. Looked so horrible.
     
  3. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    ****************!

    It was about three seconds.
     
  4. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a Mapp fan and that's one of the worst dives I've ever seen. He needs to go to Argentinian training school or something.

    It's one of those interesting cases where you force these guys to dive because if they don't go down the ref won't call what was a legitimate foul (Leonard did obstruct him on the play).

    But that dive was shameful...
     
  5. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The obstruction itself wasn't enough for a penalty either.

    That was an f'in awful awful call. Karma called for him to miss it. And luckily it did. Not that it made a lick of difference to the game, because the Revs sucked all night anyway. :eek:
     
  6. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Mapp was so tired though....
     
  7. 352gialloblu

    352gialloblu New Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    England
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    And lets not even talk about Reis take-out of Rolfe in the first half. If that wasn't a penalty, I don't know what is. That ref sucked all night (including the Mapp call).
     
  8. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Maybe someone told the ref that he let Reis get away with what could've been a Schumacher. The ref, feeling guilty, calls a PK on the Mapp dive.

    Verily, inconsistency and make-up calls are the mother of bad refereeing.
     
  9. st ryma 7

    st ryma 7 Member

    Dec 23, 2004
    the south bay
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i wouldnt say that was a bad dive. after the contact he tripped over his own feet, because he was pushed off balance, and fouled. if i had a choice between getting caught at the line, and not trying to stay up after being fouled i would do the same thing he did.
     
  10. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it was, it's a foul anywhere else on the field, it should be in the penalty box as well. You can't just jump in front of the guy, you have to make some effort to at least play the ball.

    My position on fouls like that is if refs would simply call penalties on plays like that, defenders would stop trying to do it. The end result would be a more open game.

    Now you're right in the refs often won't call it, but I think they ought to.

    What an abysmal dive though...
     
  11. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Mapp was obstructed, regardless. If someone has a link to video of a dive, post it.
     
  12. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Gravity's a bitch, isn't it?

    Go to: http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/

    Click on video highlights for Revolution @ Fire.

    Go forward to about the 4 min. 20 sec. mark to view the play and the following replay. Mapp was obstructed, but he drew the pk on the dive.

    The Magpie
     
  13. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    50-50 ball.

    At the 1 min, 5 sec. mark of the following link, you can see the replay of the Reis/Rolfe non-foul through the Revs vs. Fire highlights here:

    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/

    Reis and Rolfe are both going for the ball, with the Fire rookie just getting a foot to it first - with a dangerous, and high boot at that - while Reis is already committed to the play and in the air. Yes, there was contact, but that was inevitable with both players going for the ball.

    The Magpie
     
  14. joehooligan0303

    joehooligan0303 Member+

    Dec 16, 2001
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want to learn how to dive just watch a Chivas USA game and by the 25min mark you will have it down pat. I dont know what it is about the central american players in the mls, but they all seem to be pretty good at diving.
     
  15. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looked more like Rolfe got 100% of the ball, and all Reis got was air and Rolfe.

    Reis was late, he shouldnt have been going that hard into a ball he couldnt win. Rolfes foot was down by the time Johnny come lately cleaned him out.

    Foul everywhere else on the field, foul in the box. Even your announcer thought it should have been a PK.
     
  16. HeretiC

    HeretiC New Member

    Jan 29, 2000
    LA, CA
    So Douglas Sequira does a lot of diving? :confused:
     
  17. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Unfortunately the WMV on MLSNET.COM doesn't work on my MAC.
     
  18. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to clear up a misconception - indirect free kicks (which is what obstruction is) are NOT penalties if they occur inside the box. The correct call on the Mapp-Leonard contact would have been an indirect free kick from the spot of the foul.

    Unfortunately, obstruction is rarely called, and never called inside the box, meaning the defender can obstruct as much as they like and never draw a whistle. Meaning that a no-call would have robbed Mapp, so down he goes to coerce the ref into having to blow his whistle.

    This is a common problem for speedy attackers. Brian West and Jeff Cunningham were regularly obstructed inside the box over the years they were with the Crew, and literally never got a whistle for it. It's an unfair advantage to defenders that they can obstruct with impunity inside the box.
     
  19. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Problem is that it was not obstruction, obstruction is basically when you get in the way, once body contact is made and you hold the guy, like he did, it becomes a holding foul and should be a PK. I think (ok hope) the refs thought process was to allow the play for a couple of seconds to see if calling would result in taking away an advantage. Advantage didn't happen so he called the hold. This would explain it in a valid way where the ref didn't fall for the dive.
     
  20. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reis made no attempt to play the ball. None whatsoever. He didn't even reach out for the ball.
     
  21. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Watch the replay again...

    Both Reis and Rolfe are making a play for the ball, running full speed at each other. Just on the edge of the box (freeze the footage at 1:13 mark in the video) and you'll see Rolfe just getting to the ball first, his foot being chest high with Reis and Rolfe both airborne, no more than three to four feet between them. Reis clearly, and unambiguously raises his arms up trying to reach out and prevent the ball from being chipped or otherwise getting past him, but cannot avoid the contact with Rolfe.

    Reis should suffer no indictment for trying to make a reasonable play on a winnable ball, even if Rolfe was not going to back down, because Reis has show time and time again that he does not back down.

    Good no-call on the play.

    The Magpie
     
  22. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've watched it about five or six times now.

    Reis raises his hands but makes absolutely no effort to block or grab the ball when it is within a foot of his body. He may have left his line with intent to get the ball, but once he realized it wasn't going to happen Rolfe becomes his target.

    I also like the part at the 40/41 second mark where he hits Segares in the back of the head after he grabs a cross out of the air. Class act that Reis.
     
  23. Jasonisimo

    Jasonisimo New Member

    Jun 3, 2003
    Boston
    Yeah, he punches children too! :rolleyes:

    Everyone needs a bogeyman.
     
  24. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hell of a denial there.
     
  25. Jasonisimo

    Jasonisimo New Member

    Jun 3, 2003
    Boston
    Haha! Why would I be denying anything? You really care if Reis is an A #1 **************? Unlike you, I don't need players to behave like nuns. And I don't need to mark the time of their every indiscretion. Why did you even bother?

    And Segares is a saint? It's been my experience that all players have a mean streak. I'm positive every player in the starting XI for both teams has taken a cheap shot, What wasn't shown in the highlight clips? I wonder. I watched the match, and I recall Segares continually being under foot everytime Reis tried to bring the ball out. But it's just not worth quibbling about.

    "Class act that Reis." Well, I hope you can move beyond your issues with him.

    P.s. The Ref should have awarded the PK for Rolfe.
     

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