We've all seen many years of MLS, and all teams have had some complete boneheaded ref calls for and against their players. But doesn't it seem like that the gradual slide of last year's officiating has dropped into a cliff of complete and utter nonsense this year? And it's not against any particular team... we are all suffering. My favorite of today (so far), was Lalas getting bearhugged and thrown down TWICE in the Metrostar's box... not noticed by the ref or linesmen. I'm pretty confident that by the end of today, there will be other posts in this thread of ref-attrocities to other teams. So once again, did I miss something, or has MLS officiating fell to new depths of incompetence? Tommy Mack www.lariotsquad.net
I wonder if the increased level of play doesn't have something to do with this. Now teams are able to link up better together and it is causing the defenders to up the physical level and the refs aren't adjusting. Now go ahead and tell me why I'm wrong and stupid.
Re: Re: The Decline Of Refereeing Any classically trained rhetoric student would recognize this as an ad hominem fallacy. Attack the speaker and ignore the merits of the argument. The worst part about the incident Tommy points out is that, despite that event, the LAG @ NY was one of the better refereed games of the year! What does that tell you about the quality of refereeing we have been seeing. Now I don’t want to offend you - you may be Ricardo Salazar’s sock puppet for all I know - but the caliber of officiating is absolutely a legitimate concern and, while you may be happier ignoring the problem, I think it is reasonable for fans to expect the quality of officiating to keep pace with the quality of play. I have a hard time thinking that any objective observer would say it has.
Re: Re: The Decline Of Refereeing I went to great pains making it obvious that it's happening to ALL TEAMS and merely mentioned the Lalas case because it was fresh on my mind, jackhole. Reread my post and try to stay on the subject. Tommy Mack www.lariotsquad.net
Re: Re: Re: The Decline Of Refereeing still yawning....I might listen to a comparison with other leagues in the world where the same thing that happened to Lalas happens every weekend. Maybe an argument about too much grabbing in the box during set pieces and corners, not to mention the pick plays some teams run. But to suggest the MLS refereeing is on the decline because Lalas gets grabbed in the box. Watch Lalas on a defensive corner and tell me he is not doing the same thing. Is a jackhole something you find on a jackalope?
To be frank, I don't think the level of officiating in MLS has ever improved (from a consistency standpoint).
That was a referee being painfully out of position. He was standing about 20 yards from his linesman on the far side (from the camara's perspective) of the field, with nearly the entire penalty area at his back. He's asking for trouble. Notice how after Lalas complained, the other times the ball was in the LA end, the ref was on the near (camara perspective) side of the field, which is where he's supposed to be. While MLS refs may not be getting better, it's possible their hands are tied a bit, as they are letting way, way too much whining go on after calls. I mean, in the premiership you will get an "eff off" after nearly every call that goes against a player, but they get on with the game right away. MLS players are griping far too long after calls, and it gets in the way of their play. Doesn't seem to be helping us at the international level, either. Finally, I would ask for someone to show me a country anywhere oon the planet where fans are actually proud of their refs.
Rushonze, dude, you are focusing too much on the Lalas case. Perhaps I should have mentioned DC United's dissallowed goal from the previous week instead. Perhaps I shouldn't have used ANY example because it's become your obsession rather than looking at the problem. Now, you did bring up a valid point about comparison to other leagues... however, my first post wasn't titled "MLS refs versus Other Leagues". It was the DECLINE of THIS LEAGUES OFFICIATING. And I asked others who have watched MLS for many years to make an opinion whether they see it as well. I don't need to look at another body to see that a wound is infected and getting worse over time... And you're yawning a lot. Perhaps you need more rest. Tommy Mack www.lariotsquad.net
I do, I really really do. I guess I just dont accept your premise about decline in refereeing in MLS especially with the fiascos of the first 2-3 years, which I think were much worse and game wide. Now I think we are seeing "mistakes" more on individual basis versus league wide. Yawn, off to bed. Good luck with Dallas this weekend.
Having only watched a few MLS games in the early hours of the morning in channel 5 in the UK i can't tell you if the quality of the refereeing has declined or not, but i can tell you that players do seem to get away with a lot more than here in the Premiership. Also i think it is a good point that as MLS becomes a better league and te play becomes more pacey (which it will) referees will need to keep up to the standard. In the Premiership we got round this by having full time fefs so the were training during the week and oficiating on te weekends. I don't quite think this would work in MLS quite yet as ther is not enough money involved but give it a few years and i may be an option. Also i was wondering, how fast is the popularity Soccer growing in the US is it still more popular for girls. I hope not because football is a mas game.
For children I'd say it's about even. As far as MLS vs. WUSA, the WUSA is really struggling to put people in seats, while MLS attendance seems to be improving slowly but surely from season to season. As far as the NT, the women get far more publicity, although attendances are generally pretty similar for both. I've never been to a USWNT game, but I will be when the WWC is in Foxboro this fall, so I'll get to see what the attendance is like at Gillette. I doubt the place will be full, but I expect a pretty good crowd of at least 40,000.
Well the average level of the American soccer player is increasing at a faster rate than the average level of the American soccer ref. Why? One point is we don't have full time professional refs. And we won't for quite some time. But I think a big point is experience. During a typical MLS weekend, there are 5 games. That's a minimum of 110 players getting a high level of soccer experince. During those same five games, five refs, 10 assistants, and 5 fourth officials...for a grand total of 20 officials... are working at the same level. I think that time and diligence will even out the experience levels between the officials and players.
I wonder if geography might also be a factor. If I'm not mistaken, European refs spend a good deal of time working games in countries other than their home, which gives them a diversity of skill and perspective. The United States, though, is geographically on a par with the entirety of Europe, so we don't really get much opportunity to work outside of where we're comfortable.
In general, the refs in the US get stuck with complacency. It's as though they work years and years of AYSO, Club and College soccer to get to the MLS. And now, they only understand the game from their many years working AYSO and NCAA. I think the refs are awful. And I think it's easy for people to blame us for blaming the refs . . .but it's just not the case. I've watched a ton of MLS the past several years and while the game has gotten better, the refs have not. Hopefully, the Fox Sports "Beyond the Glory" special about soccer refs will add some insight to this debate and show us the TRUE reason why refs suck.