All ANYONE needs to know is on the first part of this article. All it is is a series of facts. http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/2002/oct10.htm The Facts: *Donovan is under Contract With Leverkusen till 2007 *he spent 2 seasons on loan with San Jose *if he wishes to stay in the MLS he may do so by using an expensive buy-out clause *Landon wants a guarentee that he will be on the 1st Team (pay attention to this: in no way did he demand to start. The 1st team is Bayer Leverkusen's 18 man team) *Bayer pays him more money than MLS ever will *if Leverkusen calls him back he either goes to Germany or gets his check-book out and uses the buy-out clause *Leverksusen wants him back *Leverkusen is also trying to do whats best for Landon *The Situation will be resolved, one way or another, by January 1st The Myths: Anything that wasn't on the facts list thats been said here at BigSoccer. *Landon said that he either starts or stays in San Jose *that MLS has ANY say in this matter. They do not *that Nike will step in and pay the buy-out clause. They have never in their history done something like that. *that he can go on a training stint with Leverkusen. He is already under contract, they either call him back, extends the loan, transfer him away, or Landon uses that Buy-out clause.
but I do have something to ask. If Landon uses that Buy-Out clause would that make him availible for a free transfer? as in to any team he wanted in the world. As long as they wanted him? Is there a window for him signing on as a free transfer? And is there a club in the world that WOULDN'T be interested in his services (with the exception of Leverkusen)?
Usually it's the interested club which pays this sum. Generally it depends on the exact terms of the contract whether the single player can buy himself out - usually it's not possible and mainly it's entirely unrealistic that a player does it. And given the less than 0.1% probability that he does, he'd still be restricted with the transfer window as he caused the unemployment himself (free signing is only for those who don't and didn't have a contract for this season). @appooOnU: to make one thing clear: if you're reading the kicker text of the other thread carefully, you'll see that the starting guarantee was a kicker invention. They quoted Calmund saying something like "We're not far away in our imaginations. Toppi has to decide, but clear is: if he's coming over it has to be quite sure that he plays, otherwise he better stays in MLS". What Calmund intends to say is that he wants to avoid a similar situation as some years ago; so Donovan will be in the extended roster and not with the reserves or on the tribune. But a starting guarantee is a mere kicker invention, Calmund was never speaking about it. OTOH I see this article as a collection of the kicker article and several older articles about this matter. I don't think that the author really knows more details than somebody else. The existence or the sum of the buyout option is still only known to Donovan/MLS/Motzkin/DFL/Leverkusen. Of course this gives wild reason for speculations, but nobody of us should see his opinion as the ultimate truth as we simply don't know the facts and can't do anything but guessing.
Thanks for the info about the transfer, as always you cleared thing up. I agree that there are some gray areas in this situation but my main point was to clear up all the garbage that accumulated at bigsoccer about the Landon Situation. I mean its degenerated into name calling and smearing what appears to be one of the nice sports stars around in Landon Donovan (Ronaldo, Ray Lewis, Barry Bonds, the womanizing Michael Jordan). If you look at the facts then you realize that Landon has done NOTHING wrong and it is actually a fairly simple matter. Personally I think the Buy-out clause will never some into effect.
Olaf thanks for the info, i am glad to see fact and speculation separated out. what i have seen of leverkusen this year on FSW, landon could make their first 18.
appooonu, why are we assuming that these are the definitive facts? just because robert wagman wrote the article? as far as we know, he hasn't seen the contract either.
Has the pope ever seen god? Come on, have a little fiath. The guys a journalist. He probably has a good source for this.
olafgb, who has been following this as closely as anyone, makes a rather pertinent point. For all we know, Wagman is reporting what he's read elsewhere. There is no reason to believe that this article, just because it lays things out nicely, is any more or less accurate than the earlier ones. prk166 -- Have we all seen plenty of cases were a journalist's "good sources" are merely what they read in someone else's paper? That being said, when you boil down all of the facts/speculation previously discussed on bigsoccer, the article in question looks like quite reasonable. Still, it is highly unlikely that Wagman (or any other journalist, for that matter) has seen the contract, so his "facts" still represent his best estimation based on statements by the parties who have. And, as has been discussed before, those parties may have personal motives to selectively share information about the contract (for example, if it works to their advantages in negogiations).
How many times does this have to be said to get through to some of you. BL has next to ZERO leverage less they want to look like a bunch of clowns. If Landon says he WON'T return, they can't make him return. And if they play hardball with him they look like asses to other players they may wish to sign. No matter what that damn piece of paper says, Landon is the party with the most leverage in the end. And if Landon won't play for them BL will find themselves either continuing to loan him out or selling him to someone Landon will play for. It is NOT a good situation for any team to have a player who is as displeased with his club as Landon is with BL.
For God's sake, people, Wagman is pulling info from various sources -- mostly on the web. First of all, read his quotes: They are word-for-word the same as Olaf's translation on Big Soccer, which, as I have pointed out, aren't even accurate enough to convey the respectful tone of what's been said and -- perhaps more importantly, reported -- in German. Wagman has NO special insight here. Second, MLS Cup means the league season is over in October. The transfer window reopens in January. They probably don't want to negotiate at the last minute (which means December is out), so LOGICALLY the only time representatives from Landon and Bayer (and, if applicable, MLS and NIKE) will meet to discuss Landon's future is November. I love soccertimes.com almost as much as cybersoccernews.com, but c'mon... this article is anything BUT the "holy grail." Don't end up looking like a Monty Python skit by making it seem like the Rosetta Stone.
Better than the usual BigSoccer corndog with ketchup-worcestershire-chili powder-mustard-horse radish-soy sauce-Thousand Island-mayonaise topping. Many a time I've gotten indigestion from browsing a thread. Usually still end up hungry.
zero leverage? sure. then BL can sue the everloving sh!t out of LD, and put the kid in the poorhouse for breach of contract, and then they could take it to FIFA, and LD could get a FIFA ban. if LD wants to play in the US, he shouldn't have been a fool and signed til 07. moron.
Here's a thought...read the laws. http://www.fifa2.com/scripts/runisa.dll?M2:gp::67173+stat-trans/reg/index+E
Let's get this straight o.k. There is the legal answer and there is the practical answer. And in my experience (which is much, much more than significant in the area of "law") the practical answer almost always is what occurs. And when it comes to employment situations like this it is what always occurs. Let's say Landon absolutely refuses to play for BL. And let's also say he isn't scared to play a game of chicken with them. Now what are their choices? Sue him? I've got news for you. There is NO SUCH THING AS SLAVERY. Sue him for what? Damages? That is pretty damn laughable. He wasn't playing for them anyway. They simply don't pay him. Damages solved. Oohh. Look out Landon. And then what do they do? Crater his entire career by forcing him to sit out indefinitely and waste any hope they have for a decent transfer fee? Fat chance. Besides the very real possibility that the contract will eventually be voided legally, they'll become a lemming. Some players will not be willing to deal with them because of the means by which they've dealt with Donovan. I.E. there are A LOT of other considerations at work here besides Donovan. No, they sell him to some one who he's willing to play for. If LD goes back to Bayer it is because he wants to play for them - and NO other reason. It may take a while, several months - not YEARS, but he'll eventually be freed from them if he so desires. I continue to be amazed by those of you who feel so damn sure it is BL or nothing. Life simply doesn't work that way folks.
1. ok, maybe they won't sue him, but apparently you have never heard of FIFA banning players for years for various contract breaches. No player in Europe is going to NOT play for BL because a petulent American wants to play with and against inferior competition. It all comes back to--"IF BL is so terrible, why was he stupid enought to sign til 07?" Answer: He's greedy and spoiled, has a big head, and doesn't want to ride pine. A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE WANTS A GUARANTEE HE WILL START! (but not when he signed and started collecting big checks--no--he demands this AFTER he signs the contract) THAT IS IN ITSELF A MINDBLOWING CONCEPT! A PRO ATHLETE SO INSECURE IN HIS ABILITIES THAT HE WANTS A GUARANTEE HE WILL START! 2. No such thing as slavery? Go to the Sudan. Or Ukraine. 3. It is not a matter of just getting paid by BL--he can not play anywhere in the world unless BL says he can. THEY OWN LD--THE PLAYER. FIFA wouldn't allow it.
Perhaps the question should be "What clubs would be interested in a pretty good american attacking player who has not played in a world-class league, has not won the scoring title of a 2nd rate league, and has acted like a baby and a pain in the butt by demanding a 1st team guarantee from a top-class club?" Way to act professional and give other young americans a bad name, baby jesus.
Sigh. I guess I failed in my quest. I STILL don't understand what Landon did wrong. All he wants is a promise that he won't be sent down to the reserve squad. If thats being childish and playing the "ugly American" then I guess you are right.
Re: Re: Re: The Cut & Dried Landon Donovan Situation maybe I was a tad harsh. But I don't usually tell my boss I'm not coming in tomorrow if he doesn't guarantee me that I will be on the top project...
All you do is point to contracts and regulations. And the world simply doesn't work that way. If all else fails for you in this little game we'll watch unfold, consider the simple fact that employers like employees who WANT to work for them. They get rid of the other ones. Nonetheless, I'm happy to address all your points once again. 1. Uh, yes I've heard of FIFA and you can bet your butt that so have LD and BL. They're not coming into play here unless someone tries to sign Donovan without BL agreeing to it. And my point is that BL will be agreeing to sell LD unless they can convince him to stay and play with them. Care for some examples? Among other players who have more or less FORCED clubs to sell them or managed to back out of their deal include Di Canio, Figo, Ronaldo, Cardetti, Vieri and countless others. This is hardly uncommon. Even John Elway played the game of chicken and won. And on more than one occassion I've seen the club state that the player could play for them or play for no one. River Plate tried this nonsense with Cardetti (who wasn't paying him). He sat out an entire season and went to PSG. I watched a live press conference where the Chairman of the Board of Celtic basically said that Di Canio would either play for Celtic or rot in Hell because Di Canio was under contract to Celtic. Weeks later Di Canio had been sold to Sheffield Wednesday for less than he was worth. In each instance the club has the contract and holds the rights you so vehemently insist will carry the day. In each instance the club ends up selling the player. And as for the rest of this player hating nonsense that you spew, who the hell cares. It is LD's life to live. If he wants to know he'll be given a legitimate chance to play, so be it. Why should this concern you so less you have some other axe to grind. 2. Fortunately we're not talking about the Sudan or the Ukraine where illegal slavery might occur. Note that pesky word "illegal". And it get's even tougher to pull that illegal form of slavery when you're following a public figure. Nice irrelevant point. 3. Yeah, you're right. So? You still don't take into account any of the practicalities that BL has to deal with here. One's they can't call down from on high as you suggest. All the parties involved here know all these FIFA rules. None of them are so stupid as you suggest. First, BL won't want to try and force any player to play for them. Talk about poison in the well. They'll try to gingerly get LD back in the fold and failing that they'll find a way to unload him. Because . . . BL has an investment to preserve. I can see BL right now calling LD to the mat and getting him in trouble with FIFA. Yeah, that's really logical. Let's crater any hope we have for getting a decent transfer fee on this player. Let's look like a horse's tailend in front of other promising young players. Which brings me full circle to that game of chicken I mentioned. BL knows LD is talented. BL wants to hold onto LD or get decent value for him. BL has some choices to make and they are going to have to deal with LD to make them - one way or the other. And unlike your hardline highway view of the world, BL think like sound businessmen. They will find a way to extricate themselves from this situation in an amicable manner - one that gets them some value or cuts their losses before the situation gets totally out of hand. Either LD returns to Germany and gives it another go on terms he thinks he can live with - or LD is sold. And as for the idea someone stated that LD might not be a marketable product - puhleese. He is 20 years old. He has been listed as one of the top players his age in the world. He was just named U.S. player of the year. His talent is hardly in dispute and he has good upside. He might not be Javier Saviola or Antonio Cassano, but he has a future in this game. While the transfer market is not nearly as lucrative as it was two years ago, someone will pay some coin for him. LD knows it and more importantly BL knows it. The real question is whether LD will accept going anywhere but MLS. If I'm MLS I try and buy a partial interest in Landon that let's me control his rights. This gives BL some coin today and promises them more coin in the rather likely event he one day goes back to Europe.