The current state of Women's D1 soccer

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Tom81, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    At FSU we are very proud of pushing our way into that club, since we aren't blue bloods. That is due to Mark Krikorian.
    Here is an article about what his players think about him.
    http://seminoles.com/everything-weve-done-we-owe-it-to-him/
    We've done the same in softball, although blue bloods for some reason, don't dominate softball.
    We are still trying to push our way into women's basketball stratosphere, but not there yet and won't be this year either.
     
  2. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    ANGEL CITY FC, UCLA BRUINS
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only recently began following women's college this decade but what the heck happened to Notre Dame? Weren't they always a competitive program back in the day at least?
     
  3. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very happy that we are getting top ranked classes year in and year out.
    I think coach Dambach is doing a fantastic job both recruiting and coaching.
    I also think UVA is a top program in both regards and has a very good coach in Steve Swanson.
     
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  4. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    According to his bio, Swanson has been the coach at Stanford and UVA for 21 seasons and made 2 final 4s, 1 final and 0 National Championships. He has way more upset losses than he does successes. You could also argue he is one of the most underachieving post-season coaches in the history of the game.

    At one point, Krikorian had been to 7 final 4 or something crazy. Dambach has been to more final 4s in much less time. Swanson shouldn't be in that conversation.
     
  5. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    It all depends how you value a College coach. against the metrics I hold important, he is one of the best coaches in the game. its not even worth debating.

    - develops talent
    - plays passing soccer
    - very loyal to his players
    - kids rarely transfer
    - kids graduate
    - consistently wins
    - high character guy

    what more do you want ?
     
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  6. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018

    Can i ask why you are happy? Top ranked classes are largely a mirage. look at who is ranking them. People who have not seen many of the kids play much. Rankings are essentially based on who the YNTs ID early and lets be honest, the last 5 years or so our YNTs have been poor. Not just poor in coaching, but poor in technique as well.
     
  7. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    I didn't say he was a bad coach. I said he is one of the most underachieving post-season coaches of all time. That would be hard to disagree with. He has been at 2 of the most prestigious institutions in the country and made it to 2 Final 4s in 21 years.
     
  8. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    underachieving vs what measure. Not winning a National title ? is that it ? there is so much more to achievement that that. his UVA teams have been to the sweet 16 (i think?) 14 years in a row.

    Playing the way his teams do is a huge challenge. Passing , building out from the back is very bold. UVA would be better served from a NCAA PoV by playing more direct and taking fewer risks in possession, bu thats not how he teaches the game. I respect him even more for it. I also think its a lot harder to do with American bred players. We dont tend to develop players who can do that well.

    the teams who have done it all the way to the college Cup are few and far between.

    my only criticism of him would be that at times, if winning is all that matters, you have to be more pragmatic. but underachieving is not the word I would use.
     
  9. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    007. I’m assuming you are a Virginia fan. I agree with much of what you have said about UVA soccer and Steve Swanson.
    At least one of the main goals at a place like Virginia should be to win championships. In that respect, he has come up short. In all the other aspects which you have pointed out, He has and will continue to do marvelously!

    That UVA team that we beat in 14 was a great team. I don’t think that team underachieved in any way. I think that FSU was just very slightly better that year!
     
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  10. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    correct! the U17s GNT did horribly yet TDS is ranking incoming classes based on them/national team callups. The key difference between FSU and UNC were the center backs for FSU. Were either of them ever given a call up? some of FSU's center mids also seemed quite good - were the american one's ever called up?

    I've seen one of the U20s and there is zero chance she is top 10 or top 30 etc at that position yet is on the national team. Much respect for FSU's coach given there's zero chance he should be getting better players than a Stanford or UVA or UCLA yet his team was clearly the best. US soccer would be much better off if they said they were never calling up anyone committed to a college before junior year of high school.
     
  11. Ingoldsby

    Ingoldsby Member

    Nov 12, 2014
    Yes they won in 2007 but one visit to the final four since then does not reflect a truly elite program in my view when Stanford has been there 8 times in that period. ND has 3 titles all-time and Portland has 2 but that doesn't make them elite today. As for recruiting class rankings, only time will tell if that turns into results.
     
  12. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    One of Our center backs is a Finnish national teamed. The other one is an American Malia Berkeley. I don’t know why she has never gotten a call up. She was actually rated fairly highly coming out of high school. She was injured last year, so maybe that’s the reason.
    She killed Stanford from the center back with her runs up the middle. They reminded me of Tierna Davidson from Stanford last year.
    I promise you that Anson Dorrance did a lot of planning to prevent her from doing the same thing to North Carolina.


    I’m not sure why Jaelin Howell wasn’t called up. IMO as True Freshman, she is AA quality already. Good on the ball. Tough as nails Good passer Good ball skills. Good pace. Gladly will do the dirty work. Dad was a pro football player.

    As a holding MFer she is indispensable to FSU.
    Played on the same club as Sophia Smith. Played on youth national teams with Sophia. We also recruited Sophia very hard. Had we gotten both, it would’ve been Katie bar the door.
     
  13. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Big hole in your post. he is NOT getting better American players per se. he has built a great culture that takes teh best of American qualities and blends them superbly with European, South American and Asian flavors. to me , that is his strength. Each groups is learning from the other
     
  14. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I think you undervalue the team part. Howell was great at FSU BECAUSE the coach had her do less and focus on her strong point - win it , pass it simple, break up play. On the US teams she was trying to do a lot more than that. NOT her strength.

    Smith - forget the numbers. I think MK would ahve had his work cut out integrating her. not the best at combining with others. Or hold up play. I think you would have lost the effectiveness of DC and YZ because Smith would get it and go 1 vs 3 often.

    it s not just about players. its about the roles they are asked to fill and coaches matching them up well.

    The same system that selected JH and SS at 13 is the same reason MB does not get called up. Early identification , coaches pushing agendas and a lack of reward for players out of the spotlight.

    ignore this U20 team. Several College kids declined because of other commitments. it still shows you how fixated USSF are on certain kids . U20 and only 8/23 or so College players
     
  15. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    007 I value your opinion. That said, I just don’t see a better center back in the college ranks then Jaelin Howell.
    In saying that, I acknowledge FSU prejudice. I have watched FSU soccer since it’s inception, and I have never seen a better holding midfielder (FSU). I have seen one or two who were as good or better on the ball as her, but did not have the whole package that she has.
    She has that toughness and winning mentality that would make me choose her if I needed somebody in the fox hole next to me.
    She has made significant progress during the course of this year. She is not the same player she was a year ago but any stretch.
     
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  16. OGSoccerCoach

    OGSoccerCoach Member

    May 11, 2017
    There are only a handful of programs that have the resources, recruiting base, and prestige to set the national championship as a yearly goal - UNC, Stanford, Southern Cal, UCLA, Texas, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Duke, Georgia, Virginia, Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. Of these programs, only UNC, Stanford, Southern Cal, Florida State and UCLA are in a position to be considered serious threats to win a title in the next 1-4 years.

    While some of the programs are obvious, the others are sleeping giants that could be awoken with the right combination of time, staff, recruits, schedule and luck. The player pools in Ohio, Michigan, Georgia and Texas are filled with stud players. I don't think that programs like South Carolina, West Virginia, Georgetown, Tennessee or Auburn could every consistently compete for a national title because too many factors are against them, with the first and biggest being the lack of truly elite recruits that come out of their state. It's tough to consistently win if your backyard talent pool is not producing big time players in every class.

    I'm interested to see how much longer these long term coaches stay in the game - UNC and Florida are the two biggest names that have been at their respective schools for 20+ years and I'm sure that retirement has been a dinner time conversation that comes up a bit more frequently these days. With the right hire, Florida could become as dominant as any school in the country.
     
  17. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    Georgetown picked up a UCLA/ Stanford transfer and graduate player. I think that the Georgetown coach commits later. So with a big player pool, lack of great ID by national team, and elite education at G'town, there's no reason they shouldn't be expected to be top 10 every year. Essentially Virginia and Maryland are back yard, and since Maryland plays in Big10 (parents can't travel to watch) and is not on same academic level - I'd say G'Town has all the ingredients to be a perennial. Duke should be but they rely too much on 9th graders from the national team pool panning out 5 years later.
     
  18. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Shes not a CB. And I agree. she is one of the better CDMs out there. Dont think i said anything to the contrary.
     
  19. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    "Of these programs, only UNC, Stanford, Southern Cal, Florida State and UCLA are in a position to be considered serious threats to win a title in the next 1-4 years."

    very sweeping statement. I willing to bet over the next 1-4 years you are proven wrong
     
  20. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    i slightly disagree with

    "The first and biggest being the lack of truly elite recruits that come out of their state. It's tough to consistently win if your backyard talent pool is not producing big time players in every class. "

    as well.

    i think the opposite. No one is consistently producing big time players in state. I think the players we produce are not as good as we think they are and its no shock to me that the more International programs have rally come on. Be it WVU - Canadian Influence. FSU - the UN . even Georgetown - Corboz (euro centric tho US born) and PSU - Rocky Rodriguez have been driven by non US engines. South Carolina , LSU (UK)

    The door is open for any school you mention who can recruit well overseas.
     
  21. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    you certainly have a bee in your bonnet on that one !! Gtown have a big edge in the conference they are in
     
  22. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member+

    Jan 20, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Simply correcting your statement that USC has on 1 final four
     
  23. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    So your proof that he is a great coach is that he teaches a style of game that makes it LESS LIKELY that his team will win?

    Soccer is the only sport that I can think of that has a faction of fans that devalue winning.

    "He wins, but I don't like how they do it." As if there was something immoral about playing any other way except ultra possession soccer. The teams that have success winning playing possession soccer are also the ones getting the best players. That is not a coincidence. He won more when he had Morgan Brian. Does that mean he was a better coach those years? Or that he is only capable of teaching his "system" when he has the best CM in the game?

    There are some teams all over the world, achieving results with B level players. Baylor has taken a ton of crap on here for style. If Swanson can't win with a half step down from Morgan Brian, how is Baylor supposed to win with players 2 or even 3 steps down playing that system?
     
  24. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    less likely that they win? he has 400 of them. I dont devalue winning. I just dont OVERVALUE winning a single elimination KO event.
     
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  25. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Swanson won the 2012 U-20 Women's World Cup, a way more prestigious title than any college championship. Not many coaches have that on their resume.
     
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