The current state of our youth national teams

Isn't this the exact situation most of our dual nationals are in? Mendez, Ledezma, Llanez, Weah, Soto... they're all provisionally cap-tied to the US by virtue of appearing in the U-20 WC, none have played a competitive match with the senior team, and all of them are eligible for countries with better national teams than USMNT.

 

That's a good point and definitely makes me feel better about things. They'd have to be REALLY sure that they would be in the picture for the senior team of the other country they're eligible for, and it probably wouldn't make sense to make that gamble.

 

To be fair, it also described Jonathan Gonzalez.

 

At the same time, Dutch dual Nats are in a tricky situation. The Dutch (as we've seen) are no more locks to make the WC than we are. They do have more interesting/meaningful games due to Euros where a kid can get some heat and help his earnings, but the competition is very tough for a team that has been known to miss tournaments now and again (though, tbd, not that often)

Getting on the field for the US is not a lock either, but it's probably a bit easier, though if you don't want to play in the US it might not give you the financial bump a successful Euro could. (If international play really does consistently translate into higher club fees - a claim I'm not 100% sure about, really)

 

Not in clear terms of he will play for the USA, but in the way he expresses himself as connected to the States. I read that as a declaration of Americanes.

 

I think its different. Those players you named are cap-tied to a NT that is very equal to the other team they are eligible for. Maybe they'd slightly prefer Mexico in some cases (a lot of dual-nationals prefer Mexico), but I think its different from a player who is cap-tied to the clear worse program that they'd probably not prefer to play for.

This is only my opinion so I could be wrong, but I would think that a Dutch-American dual-national would much prefer to play for the Netherlands, and would be a lot more willing to make the switch because if you can eventually make the Dutch NT, you are going to be playing for the biggest trophies in international football. When picking between the USA and Mexico, there hasn't been a great deal of difference between the two programs, so why limit your options to play international football unless you would much rather play in the other program?

 

I noticed on Perez's IG that he already changed his profile pic to him playing for Mexico. Been following him a while and he has never posted a pic of him with USYNTs (despite a multitude of call-ups). Just with LA Galaxy. Seems likely which way he's leaning internationally.

— ChuckMe92 Soccer (@ChuckMe92Soccer) August 2, 2019

 

He's at least two years away from just being considered. So time enough before making any moves.

 

Who is that Kerr dude?

 

I don't know, but I'm pretty confident that if the average age of our best players at multiple positions is like 17, we are screwed for a long time whether they decide to play for USMNT or not.

 

My two cents: as time goes by the likelihood is that we'll produce more players that are coveted by both the U.S. and whatever other national team is in play. The dual national issue was not a major concern until recently because quite frankly we were not producing players up to the standards of other countries. Of course, there were notable exceptions, like G. Rossi and Subotic, but in the case of the most commonly cited dual nation, Mexico, it just wasn't a major concern. Now, we're beginning to see more quality players, so naturally Mexico is accordingly upping their interest and recruitment. As noted above, Jonathan Perez, despite playing consistently for USYNTs, has a profile pic to him playing for Mexico. In most other cases, the Mexican-American players just say that they'll go wherever the best opportunities are.

So, what do we make of all this? Let's start with the reality that for Mexican-American families the culture of Mexico, which includes El Tri, is an important part of their identity. That filters down to all the kids who pick up a soccer ball. Their heroes are in LigaMX, not MLS. This is not to say that they're unappreciative of the U.S. and everything it has to offer, just that Mexico is felt deep in their hearts. This is not an easy hurdle to overcome as far as convincing kids to play for the U.S. As mentioned above it hasn't been a major issue until recently because we've never produced a Mexican-American player the equal of Hugo Sanchez or even Carlos Vela, just to mention two names. El Tri has not been interested in recruiting third tier players, at least not over a long period of time. They'll take a flyer on someone who might be useful down the road, but as soon as they see he doesn't measure up to what they want his call ups evaporate (JoGo?). Despite the tough road any Mexican-American player faces in trying to make the El Tri grade, the aura and pull of El Tri is too hard for these kids to simply ignore. Of course, once they see that they're no longer in El Tri's plans (or never were) they come back to the U.S. To use a college admissions analogy their dream school is one of the Ivies (Mexico) , and their safe school is 'ol State U (U.S.).

And what can the USSF do to help convince and retain more dual nationals? So much of the discussion has centered around quality communications with promising prospects. I agree that it would not use up much resources for the Fed to do this. Whether the communications should come from Berhalter, or Stewart, or Ramos, or someone else, that can be easily figured out, depending on the player or circumstances involved. In addition, this has to be done in such a way that non-dual nationals do not feel alienated because they perceived certain players were getting special attention. Smart people can figure this out. However, the reality of torn allegiances is just a part of the dual national's experience, so that at some point the other side of the argument kicks in, which is to say, does a player want to play for the U.S. You can show interest, set forth pathways, etc., in communications, but at some point there has to be some glimmer of interest, some expression that yeah, I do feel love for El Tri, but I do also appreciate the U.S. and the U.S. soccer program.

 

If he’s starting for Ajax, he’s not. If you are right and he’s two years away, it’s probably not worth discussing because he’ll likely be called by the USMNT before the end of the year. I don’t think he’s waiting that long. I think he might switch, if it was to the senior NT of the Netherlands and by the end of the upcoming season.

 

I’ve seen some of his tweets before. I don’t get the sense he’s the most knowledgeable about the player pool based off some of the things I’ve seen him say. I think those who post in this forum are the most knowledgeable fans you’ll find in relation to our YNT’s. I see some pretty basic incorrect things that are said by the reddit and twitter discussion about the YNT program. That’s not to say those people don’t understand soccer or aren’t allowed opinions, but the opinions are much more basic because there’s a lack of info you see in those avenues compared to this website.

 

That guy believes that Lakers need more Balls to win NBA. I guess we are quoting here a total loon.

 

r/mls is the best place for YNT discussion if you are primarily interested in the talent prognostication takes of 19 year olds who started following soccer 18 months ago.

Long live the BigSoccer YNT forum!

 

The Orange team faces in Europe attacks of high quality, often in money worth counting into the hundreds of millions. To get in the Orange defensive line you cannot do without experience. To be considered you have to have been in battles with those strikers/attackers in CL/EL matches and proven your worth against them. Europe's national teams environment isnot a Kindergarten.
Dest is still a long way from that, as he never has seen the face of any worth while striker yet, bar the ones of PSV in a obligatory match. We didnot call up Ki-Jana Hoevers, while he's at Liverpool and being praised to the hilt in England and playing in the spots Dest looks for.
We're loaded with defenders and each year some more pop up. So apart from the current situation the competition for getting selected is already getting tougher each year, let alone getting on the pitch.
Given all this it's unlikely that Dest will see qualification matches for Euro 2020. He will get a realistic perception of his chances for an Orange shirt going into the WC 2022 qualifiers.

 

Hoever is not a starter at Liverpool. Has he played more than once or twice? It's a completely different situation from what I described. Netherlands RB's is not the strongest position. The two RB's are Dumfries and Hateboer. Neither are top class RB's. I don't think Dest is going to be a top class RB either, but it's not a hard position to break into, if you are starting regularly for Ajax.

 

Both are experienced CL players, of which Hateboer does it with an Italian club.

 

I'd like to think of Reddit as the gateway drug to BigSoccer. It's fun at first and gets you interested, but after a while it's the same god damn thing over and over again and you need something stronger.

And now I lie in my bed, hungover and immobile, refusing to find myself sustenance but still willing to go on this website. This website has turned me into a crack addict.

 

I have been listening on and off to the dual national recruitment talk and I do think there are fair points on both sides.

In the specific cases of Dest and Araujo I'm not convinced the USA needs to do much more. Dest is playing well enough right now to warrant a call up for the next camp but every other opportunity has been given to him. He should certainly get capped at the Nations League. Araujo may be unhappy about being passed over for playing time at the U20 WC but he was playing up a cycle to begin with and has been treated even handedly as far as callups go.It would be stupid to bolt because he doesn't get a senior MNT callup this year.

On the other hand, in a zoomed out sort of sense, it's pretty obvious that more and more of the USA's talent is going to have the option of playing for another country. I do think that US Soccer must greatly increase their Spanish language outreach and get into the communities at the grassroots level. Most Mexican American kids are surrounded by El Tri support and in that sense we're already behind the curve.

I don't think it would be a bad idea for the USSF to hire someone like a recruiting coordinator who keeps in touch with young Americans abroad and domestic who are in the NT picture. Nothing wrong with letting people know they're not forgotten.

 

I think a possibility that weakens allegiance to LigaMX and therefore El Tri is for MLS clubs to start winning regularly against those teams and even start winning more than losing. It's always easier to root for the superior team or league but a lot harder to justify the team or league on the losing side especially if your local team or league is superior. Now, whether MLS can pull that off is to be seen. It always seems they are closing the gap only to get slapped in those games. I suspect it will be that way until it's not meaning all at once it will break the other way and if/once it does it won't ever go back.

 

Case in point on USSF's inability to communicate simple information is their twitter page for YNT. Our U15 boys are playing in the CONCACAF championships and there is no mention at all regarding their first match. They did tweet out the 18 that made the squad, but how hard can it really be to send out simple match information to the masses?

Embarrassing stuff.

 

They don't want to make it easier for LigaMX to see who they called up so they can recruit a bunch of them.

 

The problem is that the Mexico YNTs have been quite sucky lately and the FMF realizes this. I think all Mexican-American talent is at risk for the next two years.

 

Probably because they've got some guy in operations running the twitter account.

I mean, we always ask " Why isn't USSF doing more? And the stuff that they DO is almost always half-assed!".

With the articles written about USSF, and the inside look given by current and former employees, we know that it's because USSF hires people passionate for soccer, then gives them no freedom, treats them like crap, pays less than the competition, and throws on ever-increasing responsibilities outside of individual's expertise in order to avoid hiring more staff.