The current state of our youth national teams

Anthony Hudson is fine for a U20 coach. Can you name any other U20 coach in the world? It's a relatively meaningless position.

 

I was pissed with Klinsmann for the last four years he was in the position, so I was upset well before Couva. What does that have to do with anything? In any case, I might get there with Berhalter, too, but he deserves the chance first. The next 18 months are really where my evaluation will begin.

List of facts that shows USSF knows what it's doing? I didn't think you were serious. I can't find your list, but it was off base in much of it's criticism (not all of it), and it was ridiculously incomplete in terms of acknowledging what USSF actually does when talking about the positives.

USSF is not perfect -- or even necessarily well run -- but it's not corrupt, dysfunctional, incompetent, etc. either. I just think your expectations for an FA might be a little out of whack and your frustration with national team results is causing you to place blame in areas that are not necessarily related.

 

so let's see your list and we'll cross compare. happy to edit mine if the criticism is unwarranted.

 

So we can hire anyone as U20 coach since it's relatively meaningless? It doesn't matter at all whom we choose because we don't know the names of other coaches?

 

No, we shouldn't hire just "anyone," but a guy who was experience coaching a professional team, has full and youth international coaching experience, and has been selected and vetted by the current staff should be plenty capable of handling this job.

 

USSF Positive
- Greatly enhanced the youth soccer model in the US with the DA (still a long way to go)
- Navigated the NASL mess and set up a very impressive (given the timeline) tiered professional system
- Stabilized the women's professional game on the heels two failed leagues
- Won the bid for 2026
- Restructured the organizational chart to include GMs, Technical Director, etc. ("soccer people" making "soccer decisions")

USSF Negative
- Too bureaucratic, which alienates membership at lower levels
- Coaching certification is ridiculously expensive
- Lack of latino inclusion (has finally gotten better with the player pool)


This is just the beginning of both of these lists, but it's a silly exercise.

 

You specifically stated that there was evidence that showed that USSF knows what it's doing and that concerns were overblown. Now you say it's silly when you have to back it up.

Clarifications:

1. are you giving USSF credit for MLS' DA academies?
2. What's impressive about having a tiered professional system, given the timeline? What changed from what existed and why is it better?
3. How is getting sued by one of your key members a sign of a good organization?
4. How stable is the women's professional game? Have you heard the complaints from players both on the national team and on club teams?
5. Are you sure that soccer people are making soccer decisions? Didn't Ramos just state that JBerhalter was making soccer decisions?

 

I'm give ussoccer a lot of slack for a lot of things but when you have u20 World Cup qualifying in June, which is significantly earlier than normal, and wait till January to hire a coach only giving him likely 2 camps to evaluate what is a massive player pool is ridiculous. Thinking that there was not a pressing reason for the u20's is down right ignorant. Now one of his two camps he will get is filled with maybe 12-13 players who actually would be on a first choice roster. Also...after looking super in depth how did they spend so long to hire a guy like Hudson who was only successful because his team was in Oceania. Even people from New Zealand are baffled at how shitty this hire is.

Especially when a prpven successful u20 coach was already living in Chicago and both Matt Pilkington and Brian Kleiban were both available and willing. Absolutely ridiculous that this is who we hired.

 

At this point, our buddy Don is simply taking the piss out of all of us. It's the same thing he did in the Carleton thread. There is no way he is serious.

 

1. USSF gets credit for the DA format, which is much more professional (even outside of the MLS DAs) than the previous model.
2. The current professional setup is extremely impressive in both size and organizational compared to just a few years ago. USSF has overseen that growth and organization.
3. Have any of these lawsuits materialized into anything? They're bogus and very unfortunate.
4. Compared to where it was, the women's league is stable.
5. There have been new positions created so that people like Ernie Stewart (i.e. a "soccer person") would have control over what happens with the on-field product.

 

Maybe it should go back to what it was then because the on-field product of the ynt's have regressed under stewart even as the quality of players have increased. Jay Berhalter actually turned down the idea of having a GK program and even Tab has publicly said that Jay is also making soccer decisions.

 

This take is bipolar compared to your thoughts on the exact subject just a day or two ago.

We don't know why USSF didn't talk to Paunovich, but that is their prerogative. Just because he has been successful at the U20 level and lived in Chicago does not mean that they should have interviewed him. They were obviously aware of him. Maybe they had a requirement that the coach speak Spanish?

Kleiban is a non-starter due to his personality. Pilkington is a great candidate on paper (are you sure he was willing?), but it is really not ideal that he doesn't have any experience running international squad camps. Surely, he's been on staff for at least a couple of camps, right? But they might have wanted him to start with the U16s or 18s until he got his feet wet in the international game or something. Who knows?

Two camps is PLENTY of time to sort this group out before QUALIFYING, which should be a breeze. This team is not going to be hard to pick (even though we are bound to be at least somewhat dissatisfied with the selections). USSF knows the pool well, and there is tons of opportunity for Hudson to see players outside of camp, as well. People were saying the same thing about Wicky leading up to U17 qualifying -- he had even less time, and it was totally fine.

 

We love to follow them, but youth results are meaningless. How players transition to the professional game and to the senior team is what matters.

It's also a really small sample size to be reaching the conclusion that the youth program has regressed under the new regime.

 

I honestly can’t tell if you are serious anymore.

I will say you spend a lot of time in a forum which is essentially “meaningless.”

 

Well, you can remember how strident @don Lamb was when he was saying that Carelton was going to be USMNT Best XI and his passionate defense for him in the youth thread.

This take is even worse than that one but he goes down swinging.

 

berhalter uses this guy as an Ottoman in his office and as a big soccer patsy.

MLS runs USSF now. If World soccer worked on a relegation basis the USMNT would be a pub team by now.

 

He might be serious, but it’s seriously enough to show he has no clue.


Lets just ignore the continuous effort programs like Netherlands, Germany, France, and England have done with their youth setups. For god sakes, England basically have been riding Southgate’s leadership in the youth setup straight into the senior team. They had one of the best World Cups in recent memory...

 

I'm wondering whether the guy is a troll or just uneducated teen, but his ability to ruin this forum is unparalleled.

 

The players and their development is what matters.

Would you rather win a U17 World Cup or have three players from that team go on to play in Champions League?

 

I have not given up on Carleton. He is a supremely talented player. Hopefully he can turn it around this year. If he has been working his ass off and focusing like he has never done before, this could be a big year for him. It's not like his talent dried up.

 

Do you want to know one of the reasons I am so "strident?" It's because I know for a fact that things you say are completely false. You have claimed that I am a "patsy" and someone else called me a "shill" for USSF, when that is actually a blatantly ridiculous and egotistical on your part -- you think you are important enough for US Soccer to give a crap about the handful of crazy people who stalk BS?

I am a peon in the US Soccer landscape. They don't know who I am. If they did, they would tell me that I am not operating by the rules, and they would probably threaten to shut me down. Fortunately, I am completely insignificant to them.

I don't like with how they operate, but I have to admit that USSF has done a decent job of shepherding the game over the last three decades or so despite the recent failure of Klinsmann, Arena, and the lost generation, which is still extremely fresh in the grand scheme of things (I sometimes wonder if people realize how devastating of a blow it was to miss the World Cup).

I try to have a balanced opinion of USSF. The reason I seem so defensive is because I am in such the minority around here. There is a shameful echo chamber of negativity around the USSF -- with you know who leading the charge -- and it's just flat wrong. Our fanbase needs to tighten up and get a little dose of humility.

 

Not mutually exclusive and actually closely related. I honestly don’t care if we ever win a WC at any level. I love the sport and want to see it flourish in the US but I’m good with the NT being the impressive underdogs. I might even prefer it.

To say youth results are meaningless is true but disingenuous. You could just as well say that the National Team is meaningless. Would you rather win a Senior World Cup or have eleven starters in the CL? It is really the definition of Soccer snobbery. Growth of the sport will depend on NT results. YNT results (not necessarily wins) will showcase our talent for further development and recruitment. You know all this but, from my perspective, have chosen for some reason the avvocato del díavolo role of deflecting any criticism of the youth program in a thread specifically devoted to discussion of its relative health. To ignore the criticisms of youth development experts is your prerogative; to do it ad nauseum on a youth discussion board appears ignorant.

 

The point isn't your belief in Carelton (and I hope he turns out great). The point is that you don't appear to analyze using all the facts - you have a clear history of taking a (usually hopeful) position and then dismissing any evidence to the contrary as pretty much "meaningless." In other words, you advocate from belief not data.

Several knowledgable posters clearly showed you the clear evidence that Carelton was struggling yet you dismissed it until it was beyond obvious. Even now, you push your belief.

Just like in this YNT discussion, you think that our youth writ large are becoming more talented and little else matters while many others are saying that there's a lot more to it than that and it is in those areas where the USSF is failing.

 

The concept that the problem with US Soccer is the fans is straight up crazy. We're not perfect but we're far ahead of the USSF in terms of reasonable-ness.

 

What evidence did anyone show me on Carleton? His instagram feed??? I am more interested in evaluating him based on his performance on the field, and when the on-field evidence was there, I changed my opinion.

Through all of this, you haven't really elaborated on where USSF is failing. It seems you think the major problems are that they are corrupt with nepotism and the youth national teams are falling apart because no coaches will move to Chicago. I don't agree with those criticism, although I have shared some of my own.