The current state of our youth national teams (2026 cycle)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I would say the current state is great.

    Current state is juggling a whole bunch of good prospects like spinning plates. Some are going to crash from time to time.

    The current state is best explained by the fact so many of our young players are being recruited and of interest to other national teams.

    The current mental state of some fans doesn't seem to be good. :)

    My belief? Our prospect assembly line continues at pace. Esmir, Luna, and Vargas won't be the last prospects we develop. There are more coming in waves. We don't want to lose prospects, but its inevitable with the way our pool is growing.
     
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  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Only thing I'd say is that the 05's start looking very bleak if Vargas, Bajraktarevic, and Buck are lost.

    This age group maybe has 8-9 guys who look like they project to have a realistic chance to reach the USMNT. That can obviously change and players will surprise, but if you lop off 1/3 of players with a realistic senior team future, the outlook it is quite bleak and this of all age groups is the one right now that simply can't afford to lose three players that easily.
     
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  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Buck also is someone we could get back later as he could end up very good and still not be good enough for England.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't know that Buck is lost, or Esmir, for that matter.

    But that said, any senior team generally has contributions from four Olympic generations, or somewhere between 12-16 years of players.

    Which means a given year really only needs to give you 2 guys of for the team on average, and maybe 3 in the pool. And even though the Olympic generation ('04-07) is pretty weak overall, you only need 6-8 guys from it, really.

    For the overall health of US Soccer, you want depth ... but for the USMNT, you're just looking at peak. 2005 gets gutted, no doubt, but if you pull in most of the '06s ... I'm not sure it's that big a deal.
     
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  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Right, that's absolutely true. At the same time, he's also eligible for Wales, so if it's an issue with the US program and feeling slighted then he can be slighted by England also, and still not come back to the USA.

    You also have to wonder if Buck got in the ear of Bajraktarevic.
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Okay, but I'm not sure 2006 is looking that great right now either.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He certainly could play for Wales, but if he ends up good enough for him the USMNT there’s far more opportunities that are going to be available for him here in the country in which he grew up in.

    And I saw him talk about how much it meant to his dad the idea of him playing for England but I haven’t heard too much about significant ties to Wales (and honestly I don’t have a great sense on how eligibility works between England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland). To me the chatter about him playing for Wales seem more like sour grapes and it’s the sort of thing where we should be able to get him back on board if and he’s good enough for the USMNT (which will occur before he’s ever good enough for England).
     
  8. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Wales might not get to a major tournament in the next 20 years.
     
  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Yup it's the creme de la creme that matters for the senior nats. And the annual "yield" is always going to be noisy. To get the signal you need to look at a 3-5 year trend. That's smooths out over peaks and valleys. And 2005 does look like a valley at the moment.
     
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  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    All of this true, but what reason was there for him to go with England? Anyone can see he was never going to make it with their senior team. He’s flying across the Atlantic every international window and he doesn’t even get into their major tournament rosters. He’s playing a bunch of friendlies on a roster for the secondary tier players in his England year of birth.

    It comes off that he was trying to get back at the USA for leaving him off the U-20 WC team and calling Cremaschi into the senior team instead of him.

    Maybe relations can be repaired, but it really does seem like right now that he’d rather not repair relations and play for Wales as a backup when England doesn’t work out.
     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I don’t know that relations are in a good place right now, but I feel like they can be improved by the time he has to make a permanent decision.

    He seemed to have taken Cremaschi getting a call up as a slight, but in reality it wasn’t one. We called up a young player and gave them token minutes. It’s nice for Cremaschi but it’s not as if he’s become a regular call up for the USMNT.

    I would have taken him to the U20 World Cup if it were me, but it’s hardly an insult to be offered a chance to compete for the Olympic team with the U20 World Cup as the consolation prize (the latter of which is precisely what England is offering).

    All that aside I can see the attraction to England. There’s the fact that his father is English and a big fan and there’s also just the cache of the English national team given the popularity of the EPL in the US. And he’s playing with players like Bellingham’s younger brother. I can see why his head was turned.

    The biggest thing with Buck is we shouldn’t give up on him and try to get him back on the fold. He’s not an option for the U20 World Cup for us but he would be eligible for the 2028 Olympics. So there’s not really a reason for him to switch till the end of the U20 cycle unless it’s for a regular role with the USMNT. And we know Berhalter very much works on some of these dual national recruitment under the radar.

    And at the end of the day he decides he prefers Wales despite us making best efforts I would just wish him the best and move on. Yes we want him in the fold but we also want players with the national team who want to play for it.
     
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  12. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I don't particularly care about Buck, another early developer, that at best would be a marginal figure for the MNT bench. So, whether he gets on Wales bench is irrelevant. But, what is obvious that overhyping young MLS players is never good. The only one who survived that is Adams, but he is mentally on another level. Cowell, Clark, David Ochoa, Vargas, EPB are all ruined to some extent. Benja is lucky to get Messi, Suarez, and friends surrounding him, he will be OK. Neal might be the next victim, Slonina is on a wrong path. The kids that didn't get early hype like Michailovic, Bassett, Aaronsons, college keepers doing just fine getting close to their potentials whatever those are. Esmir is supremely talented, he would be a loss, and for him switching to Bosnia would be a mistake as well, but hype might screw his mind.
     
  13. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Where do guys like Pepi and Paredes fall in this taxonomy.
     
  14. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Paredes wasn't hyped at all, Brenden level maybe. Pepi not much.
     
  15. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    El Tren not hyped. What rock were you hiding under?
     
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  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Not so much in YNT. He got mega hyped after being called up to qualifiers.
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    He was hyped quite a bit as a U17.

    And the hype train took after after he started scoring for Dallas and well before he got senior team callups.
     
  18. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think Pepi was definitely hyped. Maybe not so much at like U-14 or U-15, but around U-16 he started asserting himself as a dominant player in the academy leagues. At first Dallas had Sealy ahead of him and Sealy was the big name in that Dallas ‘03 age group, but I remember watching them on the same field for the U-16’s (both playing up), and it couldn’t have been clearer who was the better player.
     
  19. Brotheryoungbuck

    Jan 24, 2015
    parts unknown
    These recent losses for the 05s make me nervous. I think it’s too early to tell if those dudes would have made big impacts for the national team, but they definitely were all players who would have been good for the next U20 cycle or olympics. Now that I write this they may have already graduated that too.

    I’m not huge on the Olympic teams coaches selections.
     
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  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear though, thus far only Vargas has been permanently lost. We don’t actually know anything on Esmir and Buck is still eligible to switch back.
     
  21. Brotheryoungbuck

    Jan 24, 2015
    parts unknown
    It feels like Esmir is gone to me. The benefit of the doubt has sort of run out. But I definitely could be wrong.

    There has been talks about how these players would have switched after the Olympics regardless and I just am not sure. Who is to say you don’t go to the Olympics, and after having an honor so huge you become even more committed to the team. It felt like Obed deserved at least to be depth over some of the guys when the team started to get put together, like Atencio who he played over at the club level. Now we’re approaching the tournament and have just lost 3 CMs in the past month to club commitment or injury, he could have been kept in the fold.

    Esmir I thought deserved to be here on talent alone.

    We missed out on both a great dual national recruitment method and players who would have made the team better at tournament.
     
  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not sure how you could reach that conclusion given there has been no confirmation or any sort of public statement by the player.

    All we have is pro Bosnia twitter accounts flagging his instagram. Given that he also does not need to file a switch nothing can really be official until the September window and even in that case all Bosnia could do is provisionally tie him given his age.

    I think we still need to wait and see 1) if we have any sort of public statement from the player, 2) what the final Olympic roster looks like, and 3) if he turns down a call up for U20 qualifiers (versus a release issue).

    Esmir may end up with Bosnia but it’s premature to say he’s definitely gone.
     
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see someone missed the train.
     
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  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    didn't even make it to the parking lot of the station
     
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  25. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It’s not looking good for Esmir. Nothing is done and he may just be pouting right now as teenagers tend to do, yet come to his senses later on, but I don’t think it’s particularly likely as of now that he stays with the USA.

    I wasn’t one of the initial panicking people that he was gone once he changed an emoji. Yet I’ve had a change in my mindset on this since the initial speculation because the information I’ve received has changed.
     
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