The current state of our youth national teams (2026 cycle)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    A measure of the inferiority complex on these boards is believing we're not at the level of Austria.
    A nation that hasn't made it out of the initial group stage at the World Cup since 1982.

    Meanwhile we've made the knockout rounds in 5 of the last 7 (94, 02, 10, 14, 22)

    Yes, they had a better summer than we did.

    We're on track. Keep investing and keep developing our domestic academies. We're doing it.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    My math was bad there. 5 of the last 8. :) :)
     
  3. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #278 TarHeels17, Aug 12, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2024
    I don't see what Austria's performances 30 years ago has to do with their current national team. They came in 13th this year with 53,000 Big 5 minutes. 15 years ago, they had than a third of that (17,000), coming in at 33rd place, which was below the US at the time.

    That correlates very strongly with their elo rating, which is currently 15th, whereas 15 years ago they were somewhere in the 60s.

    To me, your comment ignores the great improvements other nations are making, and dismissing them is misled American exceptionalism. Other countries can improve at soccer, not just the US. And that especially includes some of the smaller European countries, like Denmark, who have especially had a rise in talent recently.

    I don't disagree that the US is doing well, and on the right track. But there's a ways to go.
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Their current national team is good.
    They have good players and we also have good players.

    Didn't get out of the round of 16 of the Euros after losing to Turkey. But whatever.

    Its not American exceptionalism. I think ya'll have an inferiority complex.

    Here was our starting XI against Uruguay............

    Premier League
    Bundesliga
    Premier League
    Premier League
    Premier League
    Premier League
    Serie A
    Serie A
    Serie A
    Premier League (on loan from Bundesliga)_
    Ligue 1

    Austria has good players. We too have good players.

    They've made progress. We too have made progress.

    Austria is in the same position as us. In order to get to the next level you don't just need players in top 5 leagues. You need friggin' star caliber players in those leagues. Our midfield against Uruguay couldn't match their midfield with key contributors from Real Madrid and PSG. Bournemouth ain't Real Madrid.

    So we keep working and working and working and working. Developing, developing, and developing. We don't just need a goalkeeper on a Premier League roster. We need a difference-making keeper. Austria's keeper was who at the Euros? Patrick Pentz of Brondby. Same deal.

    I just continue to think folks undervalue our players and our team. You'd read these boards and think we're ranked 50th in the World and suck hard.

    Its this bizarre self-loathing and self-hatred that makes no sense.
     
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  5. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clint, I would appreciate if you stopped with the strawman arguments and stopped calling everyone who disagrees with you overly emotional. I can think of a half-dozen times off the top of my head you've done this recently.
    No one said that we're not equal to Austria's current squad. Austria is one of the few teams better by the specific metric being used. @gogorath said that we aren't equal to Austria's performance in this specific metric. That's strawman #1. Then, you claimed he has an inferiority complex without addressing him directly.

    No one said we're 50th. The article being discussed says we're roughly 20th. That's strawman #2. Then, you said that the mythical people making this claim are engaging in self-hatred. Sure.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Adios.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Thank you. I was just too bored to respond myself.
     
  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I kind of half don't understand why you guys get so frustrated with them. About the only exception to them is Lalas, who I just find personally repellent.

    I definitely feel like the other vets gave their all to the program, often for peanuts, gave up European careers to help birth MLS and soccer in this country, and generally, while I know they're not perfect people, I get where they're coming from as typical cranky old people in general ("a definitive cohort of society"), then add what they had to go through, which is distinctly different than really any other athlete in a main line sport in this country other than NFLers in the pre-any concern at all with injury era of the early 90's and earlier.

    These guys, generally speaking:
    *Care about the program
    *Sacrificed a ton for the program in an environment that did not remotely support the sport in their era.
    *Helped build the USMNT as a thing (have more responsibility than anyone for creating the concept of the USMNT)
    *Left sometimes legit careers in Europe to do right by the kids in America by building MLS.
    *Have watched the program they sacrificed everything for, been run poorly and erratically by self-interested parties that did NONE of the above, over the past 15-20 years, culminating in humiliations like Couva, and the recent Copa America (imagine how they feel, knowing they traveled to Uruguay, while on strike, played against the biggest teams in the world, in South America, beat the WC '90 Finalists, and made a run to the Finals, and then watch our representatives host the tournament, thirty years later, and take a colossal ---- in their pants like what we saw in June/July?!?! then watch us get annihilated by the only two quality teams we played in the Olympics as a cherry on top).

    Some of this is cranky old man syndrome, some of this is just being too online, but some of this is also being genuinely outraged at what has happened to something they sacrificed everything for, and something many of them feel they've been shut out of entirely, or mostly ever since '98, some feel black balled, easy going guys like Meola relay stories that are absolutely horrifying....

    These guys have a right to say what they say and be angry, people have a right to criticize their opinions when they feel its wrong, but honestly, I simply don't get why so many people are annoyed at guys like Tab, or Wynalda sharing their opinions. Why does it bother you or hurt your feelings? I get Lalas from the stand point that Lalas is clearly a corporate disingenuous fraud of a guy, he's a cliche of a company man who says whatever whose paying him wants him to say, but most of these guys are unemployed by anything related to the environment around the USMNT, they can and should say whatever they feel like saying, and we can decide for ourselves if the arguments are sound or not, based on the quality of them, rather than upon who happens to be saying such things. It's odd to me how many people were offended by Tab. Why? Seriously? Why. He pissed me off with selections and lineups at the U20's, I think he cost us a trip to the semi's in '19 with his choices for instance, but I still think he has a right to say what he thinks and in general did a fantastic job with the U20's to boot, even when i disagreed with him.

    I guess I just don't understand why people can't stand hearing from them. They have a legit right to gripe, like forever, considering what they did, and a legit right to celebrate, and it's not like the fed has earned much trust, at all, going back the past decade plus. They flat out have not. The defensiveness w/the program is odd.
     
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Youth National Team wise, he was a stud, 3 consecutive runs to the Quarterfinals in '15, '17, and '19, the '15 team was particularly bad, and he still took the eventual champion to penalties. No arguing w/the club performance, blech, but he produced good results, and some good performances at the U20 level, little question of that.
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It doesn't really bother me and definitely doesn't hurt my feelings. I don't even remember what Tab said. But rest assured, people can post on a message board without being worked up.

    It's just a question of credibility on the criticism. And I know the current zeitgeist, whether with former players on twitter or on big soccer, is that it's totally kosher to pretty much say anything because emotions.

    I don't really agree with that. Especially if you are a public figure.

    But specifically, if you are going to criticize, be specific, be reasonable, and if you aren't very good at something, I think it enhances your credibility to acknowledge that you struggle with something that might be difficult or have a complexity that a critical tweet rarely acknowledges. Vague "this isn't good enough" is not really sufficient for me to respect as a criticism, especially from a former player and coach.

    If you're Tab Ramos and that's the best you can do, I'm not even sure you've thought about it. But it might explain why the Dynamo were trash.

    Wynalda is different. Dude has only a passing acquaintance with the truth to the point that it's hard to take him seriously.
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure he was very good at the youth national team level, but it didn’t really translate at higher levels.
     
  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    willydonc repped this.
  13. I saw the highlight the other day and thought it was an amazing team goal. The only player who didn't touch the ball looked like the striker. The goal scorer looked to be a CM/DM making a run into space. Reading the banter was a hoot.
     
  14. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I've seen a plenty of youth teams winning tournaments playing this way, without any individual players development. Kleiban brothers say "Hello". Totally hate it.
     
  15. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I have heard great coaches -- Nancy being the most recent -- talk about how creativity manifests itself best within a framework or structure that can serve as a pedestal or foundation for creative affordances. Players who move the the ball and move their positioning in smart ways like we see in that video will be in good positions for creative play to be most available and effective. Players who don't have a collective framework to work within could actually be less likely to be creative. Maybe they are always having to scrap due to chaotic play, or maybe they are sloppy because there isn't any accountability....

    Player development is far more than 1v1 ability, and it's possible for a player to "express themselves" and be creative in a very structured environment. In fact, I see lots of personality in that video and am kind of dumbfounded that someone could hate it.
     
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  16. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Not at that age. Neither the idea of all NTs starting age 13 playing the same system emphasizing playing out from the back was smart.
     
  17. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Young players are capable of a lot. You don't have to neglect team play in order to develop creative and independent players. In fact, ignoring that part of the game does them a disservice.
     
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  18. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The teams that pass the ball like that at this age generally don’t have coaches whose first priority is winning games. Generally those types of teams have 7 field players and a keeper whose job is to kick the ball to the early developer. At this age you want to teach technique and concepts to these players. The passing technique for these kids relative to other players for their age is very good. More notably the rate of scanning and off the ball movement for these kids relative to other players their age is excellent. The best coaches have a game model that allows decision making off the ball to be prioritized allowing decision making on the ball to be clear. A young player who dribbles 10 kids at this age will generally plateau unless he physically has the tools to go along with it. A young player who reads the game at a high level with good passing and first touch fundamentals will go further every single time
     
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  19. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    The game is not the teacher. The coach is the teacher.

    The game is the format, the environment. Good coaches will create environments, use constraints, and give instruction that all work together to teach players and make them better.

    Pure 1v1 ability is a relatively small part of the equation for most players, even at a young age.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Pure 1 v 1 ability is an incredibly valuable skill, but having a youth team rely on it as a gameplan is neglecting the broader tactical and skill development of not only every other player, but even the player with the one on one skill.

    It's funny to me that somehow a team that is smart tactically and passes is somehow poor development but we've got a lot of wacky opinions on here.
     
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  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Meanwhile the Spanish language thread is much more positive. The big takeaway is why the other team isn't fouling more. Too nice, they say.

     
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  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing Crocker just said in his interview pregame was that the goal is basically to have every age group playing every window. Which would be great if they can pull it off.

    Also talked about instituting the “USA Way” which I assume will be our version of the “England Way.” And that Pochettino will be involved in instituting his style across age groups.
     
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  23. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This is wonderful, every time we have a new head coach let's screw all youth teams up.
     
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Any link to this? I believe you, but am curious about these comments.

    It sounds to me like someone parsing their words carefully. Of course he’d love every age group to play every window. Why wouldn’t he love that? Whether it’s realistic is the question. Financials make me think it’s not even close to realistic.
     
  25. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven’t seen it posted anywhere yet but assume it will be soon.
     
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