The Current Situation

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Knave, Apr 12, 2010.

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  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Indeed.

    ---

    Some rather unsettling numbers. If we lose to Chicago, we'll have lost 4 games to start the season. Last year we actually only lost 8 games over the entire season.
     
  2. Grasscutter

    Grasscutter Member

    Jan 21, 2003
    Atlantis
    Club:
    DC United
    I know you're talking about the reaction of the fans, but I'm remembering a very different response from the FO/coach.

    After we lost to Columbus 1-0 to go 0-3, Payne launched a tirade at Crew Stadium that was heard by many of the travelling supporters. He lit into Jaime, who was benched for the next game along with a healthy Brian Carroll.

    Sohn called out other players (Emilio, Gomez). The new owners publically deemed the results unacceptable, and after just three regular season games, and a relatively successful CCC, we switched formations, from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2.

    To me, that says a lot. After going 0-3 in 2007, we switched to four in the back, and stayed that way. That 0-3 start marked the beginning of the end for Carroll, Erpen, Boswell, and Gomez, who weren't as well suited to the new formation.

    Without the formation change, I don't see any way that we win that Supporters Shield, but in the long-term, Payne/Kasper/Sohn were too arrogant to figure out how to fit Carroll, Boswell and Erpen into the new formation. Those players weren't as disposable as they thought (and while I'm not sure Erpen could have been worked into that year's 4-4-2, watching from Lincoln Field Saturday, I was really missing his passing skills out of the back).

    The 0-3 start in '07 brought a much more fiery response from the whole organization and real action from the coach. Not sure Onalfo has as many options, but there have to be some lessons. Today's "we-had-a-really-good-training-session" speech from Onalfo scares me more than it inspires me.
     
  3. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I wouldnt mind having erpen right now on the right side compared to SUPER slow Talley who is over the hill. At least erpen brought youth and energy.... the exact opposite of what Talley does, he's like the grim reaper.
     
  4. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    The switch marked the end for Erpen, but Boswell was already beginning to fall into whatever funk marked the end of his career here in DC. He needed to get out of town and the formation had little to do with it, IMHO.

    As for Gomez, his decline is far more complex than the formation change.
     
  5. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Youth and Energy = Erp-Fu

    :D
     
  6. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never understood it either. I downplayed those results at the time, and was poo pooed. We beat Toronto, who was another lock to suck this year. We beat Charleston, a 3rd division team. And our starters were totally and thoroughly outplayed by RSL's starters, only winning the game after RSL decided to throw their backups out for a run. Based on that, it was always puzzling to me why so many thought that this was a fantastic accomplishment.
     
  7. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Part of the problem is expecting Tino to run the offense. He's at his best offensively when he's storming into the box on a late run.
     
  8. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Onalfo hinted that the Tino-as-AM experiment might be over. At least, that's what I'm hoping he was hinting at.
     
  9. TowsonDad

    TowsonDad BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 1, 2006
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Tino is up to the AM job either. So, who's going to play that spot?
     
  10. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    How about Bill Hamid? I hear he can do anything!

    :)

    Seriously? I don't know who has the wheels and the touch to do that. The closest I can think of would be Barklage.

    In a couple of years, maybe Najar.

    I don't know.
     
  11. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Have moreno up front as the supporting striker, paired with Allsopp. He can play as the setup guy from the forward position like Blanco. We have 2 def. mids to back him up. I'd like to see Maybe Pena tried out there given his ability to distribute well, and he can be the guy that hangs out with the defenders, in front of them. I guess paired with him.... Barklage if he is ok??? Or Wallace???

    Im tired of Morsink. Ofcourse Pena is hurt... so we are kinda messed up right now. Talley is a big bust for me, and I hope we arent paying too much. I really thought we should have kept Habarugira. He showed class, speed, and youth, not to mention a decent touch on the ball.

    I am just talking out my ass though right now, cause Pena and Barklage are both hurt. What do we do now? Expect to see Morsink paired with Q' in the middle, or Najar, and Q' out right with Castillo or Pontius out left, and Moreno/Allsopp up front.

    ------------------------------------------Allsopp-----------------------
    -----------------------Moreno-------------------------------------------

    Castillo (Pontius)-------------------------------------------------Quaranta

    ---------------------------------------------------Najar-----------------
    ----------------------------------Morsink---------------------------------

    Wallace-----------------------Jakovic-------------James-------------Talley
     
  12. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    We've got a 13.4% chance of making the playoffs right now... :)

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  13. La Barra Blonde

    Oct 21, 2007
    Section 135
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Never tell me the odds!
     
  14. ncguy

    ncguy New Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    NC
    1 person likes this.
  15. AlecW81

    AlecW81 Member

    Oct 20, 2005
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd much prefer McTavish at RB than Talley.

    I really don't understand why nobody has ever given him a fair shake at a starting position.

    He's pretty solid defensively.
    Fit.
    Decent speed.
    Alright cross.
    And whenever he gets anything approaching a chance in front of goal, he buries. it.
     
  16. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I like mctavish, but he is at best a sub that is a band-aid for any position. He does CB,outside back, right midfield, def. mid field OK but he isnt great. His first touch isnt all that, his ability to make decent passes consistently isnt great either. All he has is his ability to play tough and his fitness. I actually think Dom' Mediate is a better soccer player then Mctavish when he was around.
     
  17. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Ideally, no one.

    I'd have Castillo and Quaranta playing a wide/attacking midfielder (similar to Donvan and Dempsey for the nats) and Simms and Moresink (for now) patrolling the middle as defensive/holding mids. Barkldge and MacTavish provide depth.

    I'd want Alsopp and Pontius up front, with Moreno and Christman providing depth.

    Of course, I'd be looking upgrade all of these players as soon as possible, too.
     
  18. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I don't know how we got onto talking about formations and players. I think I'll get back to the more general situation.
    I know you're being facetious, but the funny thing is I actually looked into what kind of record will be required from here on out to make the playoffs -- both given our current three game losing streak and under the possible conditions of a four game losing streak.

    My basic assumption is that 1.33 points per game (39-40 points for the season) gets you within spitting distance of the playoffs, if not actually into the playoffs. The last three years teams with exactly that record have made it in. People for some reason seem to assume it requires 45 points (1.5 points per game), and you see that figure batted around in the press sometimes, but there's no history to back it up. (It may be an MLS thing: lots of mediocre teams in the middle of the pack that tend to draw against one another, which lowers the playoff bar about 5 or so points from where you might guess it ought to be.)

    Anyway, so what will it take to get 40 points given that we've lost three already? Rounding up, it'll take about 1.5 points per game, or in other words they've gotta perform like a 45 point team from here on out. Think on par with Chicago or Chivas last year, which is maybe within the realm of possibility.

    (The 2007 DC United? After dropping their first three games they averaged over 2 points per game for the rest of the season. In other words, they played their remaining 27 games like a 61 point team -- which is frankly amazing considering only two teams have ever finished over 60, and those were during 32 game seasons. Had the 2007 United kept that pace over 30 games instead of just 27 it would have gone down as one of the top three strongest MLS regular season sides ever.)

    So, again, this looks bad, but it's hardly out of the realm of reasonable possibility. But it does underline what is at stake over these next few games. We've dropped three games. That's manageable even for a middling team (which, let's face it, is about the most we can reasonably hope for in 2010). But you drop a few more games and you start talking about needing a miracle, because I don't think I'm alone in thinking this team is going to prove incapable of performing much better than 1.5 points per game. This team really has to start picking up points now.
     
  19. Black.White&Red

    Sep 9, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
  20. Black.White&Red

    Sep 9, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Comparing this team to the 2007 is a mistake.

    That team had experience at key positions and formidable role players, this year's team does not.
     
  21. ncguy

    ncguy New Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    NC
  22. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The level of MLS starters is beginning to pass players like Tino. I don't see him any better than as a sub for most teams. The idea that United's offense should be run by Tino is just plain ridiculous.

    Tino is just way over rated and is not in any way a box to box 2 way midfielder. He doesn't have the work rate, he doesn't have the defensive skills, his speed in transition is so so, his decision making inconsistent and his ability to take on players is mediocre.

    I am continually amazed by the expectations around Tino. It's as if all the good feeling about Tino's return from substance abuse has overwhelmed a true assessment of his actual playing ability.
     
  23. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Here's what we need to do, with the tools we have available:

    [LINEUP-4-5-1]Allsopp, Pontius, Quaranta, Morsink, Moreno, Barklage, Wallace, McTavish, Pena, Adams/Rice, Perkins[/LINEUP-4-5-1]

    And that's pretty frightening
     
  24. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think you're being overly harsh. Tino is an excellent flank player. I agree that he is, at best, a reserve central midfielder, but as a wing player or a target forward, he is perfectly capable. He also happens to be our best passer of the ball.
     
  25. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I would be willing to serve as one of our goalposts. I am just barely mobile enough for that.

    Hey, if Gelnovatch could play central defender, I could play an inanimate piece of metal. But I repeat myself...
     

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