The "Corona" Season

It's not safe at all, no matter how desperately we want it to be so.

 

Agreed. Seems like the P5 schools are trying their hardest to force the issue. I can see lawsuits from college players if they are forced to play and contract this virus. Just do the right thing and postpone the season already.

 

No one will be forced to play Gryphons dad. In fact, it has been reported that scholarships will be honored regardless.

NHL, NWSL, and NBA ... so far so good ... they all did the bubbles. MLB did not.

 

While COVID is a pandemic of epic proportions, and very serious (and while our leaders have BLOWN it on every level) and while I’m NOT saying any college sports should be played this fall, cuz I don’t think they should; let’s also not act like if they do practice/play/have in person classes that we are sending these kids unwillingly off to war or to a death sentence. Your kid has literally a better chance of dying of ANYTHING else besides COVID when they go off to school. And, the fact is, not speaking for anyone’s daughter, the vast majority of student-athletes I have been in contact with want to play. Do they have questions? Yes. Concerns? For sure. But honestly, I’m sort of sick of the narrative that we are sending kids to their death by having classes, practices, games. Does anyone know of any student-athlete so much as hospitalized or so stricken ill they no longer want to participate? And aren’t there fail-safes in place if a kid wants to opt out or is immunocompromised? Every school I know is honoring scholarships and providing for remote learning.

now, all that said, not sure it’s smart to play right now and travel and put older demographics in danger (coaches, support staffs; etc. people who have real jobs and can’t opt out) BUT I’m just sick of the narrative that college kids are being unwillingly sacrificed for the cause that is being put out there by people on the board.

sorry if that’s insensitive. I’m a coach in a conference that still plans to play this year, but the thing that gives me comfort is that if I happen to catch it and bring it home, my kids are at almost no risk. Again, I understand that for many demographics it’s a dangerous, scary thing, but many states have single digit or no deaths below 18 or 22. Again, if we are so terrified of this for this age group, we need to do more for mental health, to eliminate alcohol deaths on college campuses, drunk driving, texting and driving, and other random illnesses and accidents. At some point it’s for kids of this age (who we have no problem letting vote or shipping off to literal war) to let them decide if they want to play or go off to school and stop being helicopter parents who are fed fear to make the decisions for them. If your son or daughter educated themselves and is legitimately concerned, fair enough. But, I think student athletes need a bigger voice than what they’re being given (and let me add, if they voice they don’t want to play, that’s TOTALLY okay. I just think they need to have a bigger voice in this whole issue).

 

PiM: Are you aware that the concern is not just death? Based on autopsies, COVID19 is attacking liver, kidneys, the spleen, and there's been blood clots in lungs. This is not simply the flue.

 

Would you agree that if a school has cancelled all Fall classes due to Covid health concerns that it's probably a bad idea to play Fall sports? Because that is the case I'm speaking of. Doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I’ll add that as w soccer teams are gathering testing and quarantining there are a lot of positives and every one I’ve heard of is mild. Some schools are doing follow up testing on all positive cases and there have been zero issues. my example is anecdotal so I understand that it’s not solid data. BUT I was on here months ago saying there’s no way the season would happen and now I’m thinking it might.


I’m not a denier I believe the data, believe it’s serious, wear a mask, stay home all of it. I totally believe all of it. This is serious. For sure.

but seeing the actual college teams show up and have positives and have the cases clear within a few days AND learn that the roommates and teammates aren’t testing positive I’m more hopeful that for this age group it’s doable to work through it.
I get it means a different thing for the older coaches and staff. Totally. But if teams can reach herd immunity in their bubble maybe we can have an uninterrupted season. Maybe? Please!

 

Never said it was just the flu (although for many college kids symptoms are the same or less), but I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just saying amongst that age of person, the risks are and have proven (thankfully) to this point to be very low, including what we know about lung damage etc. if schools (who all employ medical professionals, as do the NCAA) thought the risk was high of long term damage for every student athlete who tested positive, I promise we wouldn’t still be entertaining the idea of fall sports.

You cited autopsies. Cite peer reviewed studies of active, fit college kids that are experiencing further issues. Are they possible? I’m willing to believe that. Is the risk so great that every healthy, fit, college kid should be more scared of this than anything? I just am not willing to believe this.

And, again, for the record, I’m a mask-wearer and believer that we should mitigate risk wherever possible. I’m not saying college sports are essential right now, all I’m saying is that I think the risk is much lower than many on this board make it appear. Again, how many athletes that have tested positive this summer? Many! How many are hospitalized or have been on this summer? Reportedly, none. The risk must be awfully low.

look at the Positive tests worldwide in sports. How many of them have been hospitalized?

 

I totally agree that it doesn’t make sense. Although, if there’s only student athletes on campus that’s even a safer environment. But, if I may, I also think in environments where many of these student athletes are, particularly P5/G5/Major D1, they’re far safer in their heavily regulated and tested environment than they would be at home or anywhere else (let’s face it, what 18 year old kid is going to submit to quarantine at home for a full semester). And I think providing a sense of normalcy for student-athletes who are willing, as stupid, simple, non-essential, and unimportant in the greater scheme of things a game as soccer is, it may not be the worst thing (especially for mental health) for college kids to be with their friends playing the game they love and going through this together. Just my thoughts.

for the record I think lots of this is stupid. it’s stupid that we aren’t allowed to use our locker room, but can hypothetically sit on a charter bus together on an away trip.

I do empathize with parents who don’t have control over this situation. And I hope coaches are being honest about mitigating risk and allowing players to opt out if need be. But like I said in a previous post, from what I gather, most want to be at school. Most want to play. Most are willing to accept whatever minimal risk there is.

 

This is specific to New Jersey colleges. College sports in the state have to a large extent been shut down for this Fall season.

N.J.-based Division-3 conference cancels football season, all fall sports

https://www.nj.com/sports/2020/07/n...-cancels-football-season-all-fall-sports.html

"The New Jersey Athletic Conference, a Division-3 league with 10 in-state members including Rutgers’ satellite campuses in Camden and Newark, has canceled its upcoming football season and all other fall sports amid the coronavirus pandemic.

...Other impacted schools include Kean, Montclair State, New Jersey City University, Ramapo College, Rowan, Stockton and William Paterson. The College of New Jersey, which is also a league member, had already canceled fall sports independent of the NJAC.

...Drew (Landmark Conference) is the only in-state Division-3 program that is still scheduled to compete in athletics this fall. Centenary and St. Elizabeth (Colonial States Athletic Conference) and FDU-Florham and Stevens Tech (Middle Atlantic Conference) have also canceled fall sports.

...New Jersey’s four Division-2 programs - Bloomfield, Caldwell, Felician and Georgian Court - have already canceled fall sports as members of the Central Atlantic Collegiate Conference.

...Five of New Jersey’s eight Division-1 teams have canceled fall sports so far. "

The remaining three are Rutgers (New Brunswick) in the Big Ten Conference, Seton Hall in the Big East Conference and Fairleigh Dickinson in the Northeast Conference.

 

Good questions all. I don't know that I can answer any of them, and I'm not sure if being "fit" means anything.

What I do know is that what we don't know is much greater than what we do know. (I sound almost Rumsfeldian there...)

Here's what the Post is reporting this morning:

The coronavirus may be causing inflammation in the hearts of its victims, even after they have recovered from the initial infection, two newly published studies suggest.

The studies were published by German scientists in JAMA Cardiology on Tuesday. One looked at the hearts of living patients, while the other examined damage in the hearts of people who had died of covid-19.

Researchers examined cardiac magnetic resonance imaging scans from 100 living patients ages 45 to 53, who were among the University Hospital Frankfurt’s covid-19 registry. The scans were taken two to three months after the patients were diagnosed with the disease, and many had apparently recovered by the time the images were collected.

Among those patients, researchers found that 78 had “cardiac involvement” and 60 had “ongoing myocardial inflammation.”

The second study involved autopsies on 39 individuals who died after testing positive for the virus, most of them in their 80s. Researchers found that coronavirus could be found inside heart tissue in more than half the people who died, and evidence suggested that the virus may have been replicating inside the heart tissue of five of the deceased patients.

Past studies have shown that the virus can profoundly damage the cardiovascular system, dropping the oxygen levels in patients’ blood and causing dangerous clotting in some people. The potential danger the virus poses to the heart means that people with preexisting heart disease are far more likely to suffer severe infections or die.

The studies suggest that patients may continue to have heart problems “months after a COVID-19 diagnosis,” Clyde W. Yancy, chief of cardiology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine, wrote in an editorial examining the two studies. That raises the concern for “new-onset heart failure and other cardiovascular complications,” even after people have seemingly recovered from the virus, he wrote.
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Not peer reviewed, but lots of young folks are dying of strokes:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200604095600.htm
Young patients with no risk factors for stroke may have an increased risk if they have contracted COVID-19, whether or not they are showing symptoms of the disease. Surgeons at Thomas Jefferson University and collaborators analyzed patients presenting with stroke from March 20th until April 10th at their institutions. The strokes they observed were unlike what they usually see.

https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/HealthU/2020/05/20/can-covid-19-cause-a-stroke/
While there’s not enough hard evidence to confirm that COVID-19 is causing strokes, experts across the world have noticed a trend. Young, relatively healthy patients who are not exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19 are suffering strokes and testing positive for the disease.

I can't find the two articles I clearly remember reading about children (under 15) having strokes, so maybe it's good you made me look. I'll keep digging. But my point is this: you can't out-fit a stroke. Being in-shape won't do you any good.

 

I think points brought up on this board about long term effects are valid and it’s just too early to know, fair enough.

my one piece of pushback with these articles is the first article defines young people w/ strokes as 30s, 40s and 50s not 70s and 80s. And second doesn’t cite ages. My whole point is that for 18-22 year olds the risk is negligible and almost non existent. I hope I stay right on that.

 

The big Sky had pushed back the start date for Olympic sports.

I find the date interesting. This was sitting on somebody’s desk when they said they would decide by June 31.

 

I meant July 31

 

Interesting discussion. I am starting to think about groups and increments of risk, as in:

If players and other students are on campus, what is their degree of risk as compared to no college sports and on campus attendance? I am not sure the risk on campus is greater given that the student age group does not seem to be doing a very good job of keeping themselves virus free when not on campus.

For school employees -- faculty, athletics staff, maintenance and food service staff, etc. -- it seems to me that the risk of players and other students on campus increases their risk, perhaps significantly. On the other hand, if they are not employed that will expose them to other risks. How those two compare depends on their age group, health condition, and other factors.

For the general community, it seems to me that the risk of community spread ultimately attributable to players and other students depends on the answer to the question about player and student risks on campus as compared to not being on campus.

This gets me to thinking about a whole different model. Suppose all campuses opened up, subject to the requirement that students cannot leave the campuses for any reason without written school permission and that on leaving, they immediately must go through a full quarantine process. There could be an exception for students going from their school campuses to other school campuses. Further, rather than having campuses close at Thanksgiving to re-open after the first of the year, students would have to stay on campus for the entire school year, no exceptions at all except for the permission and quarantine process. Then, at the end of the school year, all students would have to go through a full quarantine process immediately on leaving. If young people in the student age demographic are significant contributors to community spread, as seems to be the case, this actually might reduce the risk of community spread. This would leave, however, the risk to school employees.

What I am getting from thinking about this is not that what I have suggested is right. Rather, it is that the issues are more complicated than I had been thinking.

 

I would think a 20-year old sitting in her apartment bored while doing online classes would be very tempted to venture out. I almost guarantee it. Here at home though, my daughter has done a good job sitting tight. In talking with her last night, it sounds like a lot of players are starting to wonder what's going on. They are smart enough to read between the lines. Like you said about travel on a charter bus, that topic comes up all the time with her now. "How is that safe, but class isn't?" "How is playing a 90-minute soccer game safe, but I have to stay in the apartment and wear a mask everywhere and can't even get dressed in my own locker room?" Team meeting coming tomorrow so we will see if things change.

 

The Big West has decided no Fall sports. They will decide whether they will move to Spring later.

 

The ACC has a key meeting today. The SEC has one today and another on Friday. The NCAA apparently has a key meeting on August 4.

 

Can someone help me understand the move to spring? Are these conferences just saying that to save face? As of now there is no spring season save for 5 play dates. Are these conferences assuming ncaa will let them play a full season in the spring? If the ncaa holds the championship in the fall, then what will the spring be? Just a scrimmage type season? So these conferences are assuming the ncaa will change rules for the spring?

 

They will make the regular season in the Spring. I predict there is no way the NCAA is going to hold a championship in the Fall at this point. I guarantee the conferences all consult with the NCAA before making a decision like this.

 

the ACC just announced fall sports starting Sept 7-12.

football will play a full 11 game conference schedule, including Notre Dame, which will be eligible for the ACC championship and the bowl selection process, which I guess means they will keep playing into January.

lots of “ifs” in the announcement.

https://theacc.com/news/2020/7/29/g...ans-for-football-and-fall-olympic-sports.aspx

interesting that the sports outlets are only reporting on football. Most don’t even mention other sports.

 

The NCAA will be making an announcement Aug.4. Expect a lot of flexibility in what they will allow.