The "Corona" Season

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Eddie K, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. Soccerguy1022

    Soccerguy1022 New Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Nov 28, 2018
    I think that everyone on here is kinda missing the entire reasoning behind women’s soccer being able to play right now. It’s football. Everyone better start praying that these football programs get everything under control in time to start the season or there won’t be a fall season for any sport. If football shuts down, there goes W/M soccer, volleyball, cross country, and a delayed start to basketball season. Football is being used as the “lab rat” right now in college athletics to see “how it goes”. It hasn’t gone well at some schools and has gone well at others. We all know football revenue makes WSOC to actually be able to exist, so we need to be hoping that these schools are focusing on these football athletes and getting everything under control ASAP.

    I know the school where I live hasn’t had very many (if any) positive FB tests, nothing has been released that they have. But I know the WSOC staff as well as the ENTIRE athletic dept are hanging on every update from FB to make sure the other sports can still operate “normally”. It will be interesting to see how everything ends up, as we are still over a month away from WSOC teams starting their actual preseason, so only time will tell. But everyone needs to be praying these football programs have their s*it together so that WSOC can play.
     
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  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? Not in the West Coast Conference.
     
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  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #503 Cliveworshipper, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    That piece of football propaganda was debunked long ago.
    You did read this NCAA report that showed only 22 pointy ball programs out of over 1000 over all divisions made money, right?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-revenue-expense-report-2011-6


    As a rule, all universities loose money on athletics. BCS programs loose the most. FBS loose a bit less, and Schools with no football loose the least, as this clip from the 2018 report shows.
    [​IMG]

    The red means deficit. The key is to look at generated revenue - the money the programs brought in, not including donors.

    The shortfall is made up in directed alumni and donor gifts, student fees, and even endowments. The median loss for 98 of the P5’s football programs was over $11 million. That’s a pretty nice soccer stadium EACH YEAR..
    For those schools, the way to balance the books is to drop football, not soccer.

    a more recent report showed that increased to 26 teams that make money- with a catch.
    That’s before the NCAA mandated that debt service on stadiums and facilities now have to count as operating expenses.
    Before that, half billion dollar stadiums were university capital expenses (paid by taxpayers, in public schools) and free for athletics on the books.

    Football revenue is what keeps AD’s and football coaches in their Mercedes on the way to the country club and they will sacrifice all other sports, even basketball, to keep the money pump for them going if the ncaa would allow it. The first thing they did was to ask the ncaa to drop most sports this year to keep their money flowing. How does that help?

    In all but 22 schools in the country it keeps money away from women’s soccer if it does anything.

    There is a real relationship between women’s soccer and men’s football, But it’s not what you think. the idea that women’s soccer needs football is ludicrous. Football needs women’s soccer to make a show of complying with title IX.

    Pesky federal law and all.
     
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  4. PoetryInMotion

    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I hate pointy-ball so I hate that I have to defend it. But if you’ve ever worked in a d1 athletics department with football, as I have, you have to learn to be thankful for it. could woso survive without football? Yes. Would we have nearly the resources we do without it? Probably not. (Academic center for athletes, before this year chartered plane flights, games occasionally on tv, etc)

    So while the above numbers are true, it’s looking at total losses in athletic departments, not football losses. It also doesn’t take into account gains the University May make in giving to non athletics, increases in enrollment, etc. Non football schools may lose less but it’s because their budgets are WAY smaller. Football is a 4.1 billion dollar industry. Woso isn’t. Maybe the WCC, minus BYU doesn’t need it but as far as revenue distribution, but a lot of schools do need it, and it’s ridiculous to say that football doesn’t account for a large part of the earnings of the budget. Cutting football in most cases would not balance the budget, you’re forgetting there’s going to be a loss of TV revenue, alumni donations (many have to give them to get season ticket rights). There’s a reason why FBS schools make more than FCS schools. Many FCS schools rely on guarantee games from FOOTBALL to bring in money. WoSo Isn’t bringing in a net gain of 500k-1 million for a soccer match. 5k, maybe?

    Here’s a real world example: football brings in an average of 78 million at each power 5 school. At LSU, football turns a profit of 56 million and took a loss of 22 million in all other sports (even while profiting on MBB and baseball). Football accounts for 85% of LSU’s overall revenue.

    another example is television revenue. The Big Ten will split 54 million in television revenue if there’s football (with or without fans in the stands), again, whether or not a school is profitable in athletics, they will lose that share if there’s no football.

    If football is so unprofitable, why are schools who don’t sponsor it not turning a profit?

    here’s a snippet of an article:
    “Most money for FBS athletics comes from football, in some capacity.

    The massive ESPN deal that brings in up to $40 or $50 million a year? The money that comes from selling 100,000 tickets every home game? The money from parking, from $12 beers, from requiring alumni donations to get good seats, from selling polo shirts with the university logo on it? The $1 million guarantee check a smaller school gets to be the road team and get crushed in September?”

    Those are revenues not being gathered from most other sports, not to mention the enrollment boosts and other inflows of money that can be attributed to a successful football (or in some cases basketball programs).

    At the D2/D3 levels is football a money pit? Yeah. Probably in most cases. That’s why you’ve seen some football programs cut. If football at the FBS/FCS level was such a disaster you’d see it being cut not baseball, men’s soccer, cross-country and tennis. Could a school support woso without football? Sure. But the idea that most universities and athletic departments in division 1 athletics would be better off without football is just false.
     
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  5. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    I agree with @PoetryInMotion about 99% on that post. No One in the P5 is better without Football, just considering TV revenue, much less those added 'spill overs'. Millions get poured into these local economies on FB days as well. Of course, empty stadiums will still really hurt but if that TV money goes away, D1 college athletics will be in big big trouble. Even in D2/D3, very many stadiums are shared with FB and they are nicer as a result, or the separate soccer stadium is nicer because of what FB has. The rising tide lifts all boats (or makes all locker rooms nicer!)

    So, we should all be rooting for fall football games and for football players and coaches to lead by example this summer and not do stupid things.

    Here's a glimmer of hope! UMD reported Zero positive cases from their first round of 105 student tests. It can be done with frequent testing and disciplined athletes. Just hope there are enough teams to play each other come September!
    https://www.si.com/college/maryland...virus-testing-results-terps-workouts-covid-19
     
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  6. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    The death rate is not lower so you must mean per million people?

    Total deaths:
    USA: 124,161
    France: 29,00
    Sweden: 5,208
    Australia: 104

    Death per 1,000,000
    Sweden: 522.81
    France: 455.8
    USA: 377.76
    Australia: 4.08

    This will look much different in 2-3 weeks. I anticipate a big increase in deaths in the US unfortunately based on the rise in new cases.
     
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  7. PoetryInMotion

    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    deaths per capita; yes. We are far lower than several European countries. It makes no sense to say we’ve had more people that have died than other countries (especially in Europe) when our population is far greater. It’s another example of the media not using any context. Not to say the number of lives lost in this country isn’t a failure—it is; or that it’s not a tragedy—it is.

    it’s also impossible to state that we have a higher death rate because we don’t actually know how many cases each country has had. It’s possible that As many as 1 in 10 Americans has had COVID-19, according to the CDC, meaning our death rate is far lower than the media and experts have reported to this point. I’m not suggesting it’s the flu, it’s clearly not, but because so many people have probably been infected, it’s much more likely that the death rate is well under 1% (more like 0.5%) rather than 1-3%. Also, the CDC’s new data suggests Based on testing from 6 states a more than 10% increase in number of cases (or people that have actually had it) than has been reported. If interested here’s the raw data:
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/commercial-lab-surveys.html

    I agree with your assessment as I posted above, deaths lag case increases by a week or two, so we could be in a far worse place in a couple of weeks. Or, maybe not, as a number of these new cases are in a younger demographic and outside of long term care facilities. We will see. I try to be optimistic, but it is alarming that we are seeing not only an increase in cases but also an increase in hospitalizations.
     
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  8. Soccerguy1022

    Soccerguy1022 New Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Nov 28, 2018
    #508 Soccerguy1022, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    I was more referring to the fact that those women’s soccer scholarships keep football scholarships at every school. Most of the women’s soccer programs live off the football money. There isn’t one soccer program in the country that makes money, so yes, it does revolve around the football money. Football doesn’t have to make money to help other programs. My father has worked in college athletics for over 40 years, and it all revolves around football, whether we like it or not. The TV revenue alone helps keep all the non revenue generating sports alive. I was mostly trying to say that if football doesn’t play this fall, there will be no soccer. For anyone. West coast conference might be the only outlier, but who are they gonna play in the post season if all the other schools are shut down? Just was putting my two cents in, wasn’t trying to start a money argument, because in reality, there is no argument there either.
     
  9. hykos1045

    hykos1045 Member

    May 10, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Add to my list:
    • Monmouth
    • Weeeeeeber State
    • North Alabama (non-conf slate announced only)
     
  10. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    Just saw an article that Pitt had 5 football players and 1 staff member test positive. Not good considering they are the only team on campus. Women’s soccer is suppose to report Monday
     
  11. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    Nearly every team is going to have some positives. Only 5 out of 100 is actually pretty positive if you ask me.
     
  12. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #513 Cliveworshipper, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020

    There are almost no football programs that make money ( 22j according to the NCAA.
    And the losses for the 98 P5’s are at a median 11 million in losses.

    that funds several soccer programs.

    This year that will likely be zero.
     
  14. Soccerguy1022

    Soccerguy1022 New Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Nov 28, 2018
    But football is generating revenue that runs those other sports... The last 3 schools I coached at didn't create ANY revenue, literally not $1. And one of the schools we had to fund raise to fill the scholarship void because it was not fully funded... with out the football money, it would be a scary place.
     
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  15. PoetryInMotion

    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Again I HATE to defend pointy ball and be a fact checker here, but that statement is untrue, or at least untrue without some nuance. Almost ALL P5 football programs turn a profit:

    http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2019/03/who-are-the-richest-and-poorest-power-five-college-football-programs-here-are-all-65-ranked-bottom-to-top.html?outputType=amp

    It is true that some P5 programs don’t make enough to pay for every other sport, like woso, but again, it’s not like football is causing athletic departments at the major division 1 level to be operating at a deficit (stupid coach buyouts aside). Now at the small FCS or d2/d3 level that may not be true, but for major division 1 schools, it is.

    and they are profitable over a period of time too. From Forbes:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriss...-most-valuable-clemson-texas-am/#1d8c91aba2e7

    Another article:

    http://www.statista.com/chart/amp/20152/college-football-programs-earning-most-profits/

    And gross revenues of FBS And FCS teams (I understand this is not profit...but still, you have many FCS schools making REAL money on football)
    https://footballscoop.com/news/the-highest-grossing-football-programs-in-college-football-are/

    FCS:
    https://footballscoop.com/news/the-highest-earning-fcs-programs-are/

    again, athletic departments can lose money, but most of that is not being lost on pointy ball.

    And if you don’t think football affects FCS schools, here’s an article that ran that shows potential consequences of no football this fall:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3076132001
     
  16. First Time Finish

    First Time Finish New Member

    Nov 4, 2016
    The idea that football is losing millions of dollars a year is straight up NCAA propaganda.
     
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  17. AMBreakers

    AMBreakers Member

    Boston Breakers, Boston Univ. Women's Soccer, Norwich City, Charleston Battery
    Jun 21, 2010
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Boston Breakers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a diehard BU fan, I sure hope we do get the chance to play some sort of season this year but obviously what is safe for everyone involved has to be done. Last year was one of the worst seasons in program history with a team that was projected to at least finish in the top 3 of the Patriot League standings ending up near the bottom (they even lost to Turnpike Trophy rival Holy Cross for the first time since 1995). Everyone wants to try and rewrite the script this year with the team's most talented player and captain (who scored the winner in the 2018 PL final) returning for what would be her senior year and it would be a shame if it didn't get a chance to happen.
     
  18. ACrom

    ACrom New Member

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Apr 10, 2020
    No fall sports for Ivy League schools. Please cancel the season
     
  19. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    I respect the Ivy League--but it is dispassionate about sports. I don't think the Ivy League is going to influence whether the P5 conferences play football, soccer, etc. this fall. The reality is, as someone mentioned above, schools and teams will have to deal with some positives--it's how it's going to be in society, sports, everything for a while. Be smart, follow protocols, do all you can to prevent spread, but some people will test positive. The alternative is to go back to sitting in our homes 24/7 for another 6 months, in which case darkness will overtake the land!
     
  20. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ivy League didn’t make an announcement - yet. But they will make an announcement on July 8. https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/7/1...athletic-activity-for-the-fall-2020-term.aspx

    My guess is they push football to the spring. Not sure what happens to other fall sports.

    48,000 new cases in this country today alone. 5% of the world population but 25% is the world’s cases. The EU has 115 million more people than the US and they only had about 4,000 cases today in comparison. I’m trying to be optimistic but this looks pretty dire. Spring sports shut down in March and we are in far worse shape now then we were back then. Can’t see how fall sports can work. This nation had no leadership on this matter and it shows. Had we had real leaders and a population willing to listen to science we could have had a chance for college sports this fall but it looks pretty unlikelihood that has much of a chance at this point.
     
  21. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    My question is, how many of all the new positives we hear about are actually getting sick? For all the near-hysteria about positives, what percentage of the positives are ill or hospitalized? Can we be sure the tests are all accurate--we had the Orlando players who tested positive and then tested negative and who knows what they are today? Even so, we must assume that the tests are predominately accurate, as we have no other choice. Let's hope that the WHO gets the dope on how this BS got started in China so that serious efforts can be made to prevent it from happening again, though the experts say more pandemics are almost inevitable. Something to look forward to on our overcrowded, over-populated planet! Good times. I feel there is this disconnect between all the breathlessly reported numbers and the reality of whether people are still getting sick/dying; certainly, the death rate has gone way down. Maybe I'm just inured--no, I most certainly am inured, after months of this. It seems now like most everybody is going to get the virus at some point, the vast majority may not even know it, some with existing health issues could have problems. All that can be done is for everyone to continue wear masks in public, keep up social distancing and carry on. States where there have significant increases in positives need to crack down, which seems to be happening in some if not most of them. It's maddening. Others may disagree, but I'm glad to see some sports start back up and others on the way. I think we basically have to carry on and deal with dastardly Covid as necessary. Everyone doing nothing for more months isn't really a viable option.
     
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  22. hykos1045

    hykos1045 Member

    May 10, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ivy league conference games are all charter bus friendly, and the facilities are large enough with social distancing to avoid becoming super spreader situations as long as common sense is followed. With the exception of having to cross state lines, they won't be crossing into unsafe regions. They also have the money to be able to afford revenue losses associated with limiting football attendance, as opposed to say an ACC school that depends on gate revenue to meet its budget. So I hope they don't cancel the entire season prematurely. They usually start the soccer season later than most. I appreciated their stance when in March they were willing to put the safety of their student athletes above all, but I still hope for a more thorough review before preemptive cancellation of the entire season just because logistics have been difficult to predict at this stage.

    Team meetings and classes that used to take place in tight quarters can still be done in virtual settings. Meal halls and residences can be appropriately distanced, which everyone should be used to by now anyway.

    If Ivy League wants to move soccer to spring, they may miss out on NCAA tournament privileges but then again that determination may become moot later, as was the case in March with basketball.

    Another wrinkle in this process is how teams with a heavier presence of international scholars will fare in light of the current travel restrictions.
     
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  23. RUfan

    RUfan Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    NJ
    Club:
    Sky Blue FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two recent articles in the NJ Star Ledger regarding RU football but concepts could be extended to other fall sports.

    https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...n-there-will-be-college-football-in-fall.html

    "The new (Rutgers) university president is unsure if the Scarlet Knights and the rest of the conference will be able to play the 2020 season as scheduled amid the coronavirus pandemic, he said in an interview before his first day on the job Wednesday."

    https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...s-big-ten-to-cancel-non-conference-games.html

    "...The Power 5 conferences of the Football Bowl Subdivision - the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC - as well as select schools like Notre Dame and the service academies will have the means (money) to establish more thorough testing systems than the Group of 5 conferences and Football Championship Subdivision programs..."
     
  24. ACrom

    ACrom New Member

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Apr 10, 2020
    Stay home save lives everyone
     
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  25. Brian Webb

    Brian Webb Member

    Aug 7, 2016
    San Marcos, CA
    Club:
    --other--
    Going out and supporting small businesses tipping LARGE and wearing my mask, washing my hands and living as much as possible. Got round trip flights to Hawaii and will have a 72 hour test before flight that I will pass. I'm a free American that understands social distancing, wearing a mask and will not go out if I am infected or feeling unwell.

    Stay home if you need too. Don't let others think for you. Read, listen to ALL news sources but make up your OWN mind.
     
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