The Conundrum (too many O-mids)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by rtung, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. rtung

    rtung Member

    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago, IL, USA
    It's ironic, because I remember the days when the USMNT was severely lacking in offensive playmaking ability (Reyna, who's a holding midfielder, was the best we had), but right now, our problem is that we have too many offensively minded center midfielders who are subpar defensively. Dempsey, Feilhaber, Adu, & Torres all can contribute to the offense, but are so bad defensively that we need to play 2 central midfielders who can contribute defensively to not get overrun in the central midfield (I'm not considering Kljestan because he's as bad defensively and behind all 4 named above offensively). Right now, those are Bradley & Clark (because Edu is injured, Jones can't play yet, and Pablo is too old). To further compound the problem, we only have one starter in the NT player pool who has the speed & stamina, yet also the defensive ability to play wing midfield (Donovan), and our leftback is weak, which means Donovan almost has to play LM (unless you want to see the opposition repeatedly bombing down our left side) while Torres and Adu are left-footed players.

    So that leaves only 1 more spot in our midfield for an offensive/creative type (and it's going to be on the right side). We could play 2 of them if Dempsey is a striker (which I believe is his best position, because he can't hurt us as badly there with his half-ass passes/decision-making/defending) . . .3, if we start Adu & Dempsey as strikers instead of one of Davies or Altidore (I actually prefer Davies because of his superior pace).

    However, all those diamond formations that I see on BS with both Adu & Torres in them and only Bradley supplying central midfield defense would leave our center overrun as well as expose our weak leftback. In fact, if you look around, very few top clubs play a diamond midfield with only 1 central midfielder with defensive responsibilities and a true "10" these days for exactly this reason. (When Zidane was around in 2006, he was backed up by Makelele and Vieira.)
     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Once Jones gets on board, our midfield is set. Jones and Bradley, two hard running, hard tackling box to box midfielders taking up the center of the park with Donovan and Dempsey attacking from wide spots. Everyone else is a sub.

    Only thing that changes that is if Donovan or Dempsey get lined up as a forward, or if someone like Adu breaks in playing as a forward.

    I'd say Edu will probably end up first off the bench once he's healthy if we're in good shape and eventually perhaps Adu squeezes in as a late offensive sub when desperate. We're not going to start a soft, offensive mid centrally, especially considering how we've leaked goals against strong teams. A pair of harder players like Jones and Bradley are more appropriate.

    I love the ball skills on Torres, but he's looking at a back up role wide if he makes the WC roster.
     
  3. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Bradley is more of a two-way midfielder than a true holding midfielder. Jones will fill the role of destroyer once he is eligible. Another name to look for his Brek Shea. He would be one of the faster players on the team and has a large frame. He also has great technical speed. I have a feeling he is going to tear up the U20 World Cup. If we can get Castillo to play LB, then we will be in much better shape for 2010. I could see the starting lineup looking like this:

    --------------Howard---------------
    --Edu----Spector---Onyewu---Castillo
    ----------------Jones---------------
    --Shea---------Bradley--------Donovan
    -----------Altidore-----Ching--------

    If we can find a play-maker, we can just go with one target up-top and flood the midfield with a 4-5-1. The only real option is Adu, and he needs to get regular work this year to even be considered.

    Edu sliding over to the right back would be interesting. He is played that position before, unlike Lewis and Beasley who were tried at left back.
     
  4. ghazi

    ghazi Member

    Feb 27, 2004
    Chicago
    Your theory on Donovan being cover for the LB is more accurate if we assume that Bornstein is the LB. I certainly hope he is not because he's grabbed every opposing player in every game as thought he's trying to steal their shirt or cop a feel.

    Leave DeMerit and Gooch in the middle and put Bocanegra out left where he plays for club. We have a solid back 4, two solid central mids in Bradley and Jones/Edu, and then we pick from LD/Deuce/Adu/Benny/Torres for the wings, though we know they'll pinch inside when they can.

    If we play 4-5-1, we can add another middie to the mix and leave Josy up top. My preference:

    ST - Jozy
    LM -Donovan
    CAM - Deuce (kinda sencond striker ala Gerrard behind Torres)
    RM - Benny, Adu or Torres
    CM - Bradley
    CM - Jones/Clark/Edu

    LB - Bocanegra
    CB - Gooch
    CB - Demerit
    RB - Spector.

    This allows us the most solid backline with two solid defensive type central midfielders. At the same time it gives us box to box middies in the middle who can move up and help attack.

    Offensively, there are now 6 guys with scoring ability, passing ability and impact-producing skill.

    Me Likey.:D
     
  5. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to see up play some 4-5-1 from time to time, just to get the players used to it, and if we have to go 3-5-2 if we need a goal in the WC.

    And don't forget Holden, who I think will be beyond Kljestan very soon. And has better pace.

    For me, here is our current 23:

    GK (3) Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann
    D (7) Cherundolo, Onyewu, Bocanegra, Hejduk; Spector, DeMerit, Bornstein
    M (6) Dempsey, Jones, Bradley, Donovan; Feilhaber, Edu
    F (3) Ching, Altidore, Davies

    I think the above 19 players have proven they can do it at the top level, or at least be serviceable.

    I think the final four spots will come down to some combination of:
    a. A 4th CB: Califf, Marshall, Parkhurst, Cameron
    b. 2-3 more midfieldes: Clark, Adu, Torres, Beasley, Holden, Kljestan, Rogers
    c. Possibly 1 more forward: Casey, EJ,

    My money is on a 4th CB + 3 more midfielders: right now, I'd go Torres, Adu, Holden.
     
  6. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sorry, Brek Shea?

    Brek F-ing Shea? The one who's played 8 professional games for Dallas?

    Over Dempsey, the guy who starts and scores goals for the US and Fulham?

    Dude.
     
  7. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just wait. He came into the game on Saturday against the Crew and instantly changed the complexion of the match. He has all the physical tools to play the game at the international level. There is usually a player or two who comes out of no where to make the squad a year before the World Cup, and I bet Shea is that player this year.
     
  8. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good first post.

    I think our tactical inflexibility hurts the player selection.

    I can't see us - nor do I want us - to deviate from a 4-4-2 with two true strikers in the near future. So, two of Altidore, Ching, Davies, and (maybe) Dempsey should be a given.

    Donovan is also a given in the midfield, as are 4 in the back, so that leaves us with three player selections that dictate how we play.

    The remaining pool is:

    Dempsey, Bradley, Adu, Clark, Torres, Feilhaber, Kljestan, Edu, and soon, Jones

    Somehow, we need to find an offensive and defensive balance among three players. And, realistically, I think Dempsey is a given if he's not at forward, so it's more likely between two players.

    Adu is in the toughest spot, because to maximize his strengths, I think he needs to be a withdrawn striker or attacking-mid in a diamond. However, that mandates a shift to a 4-4-1-1, and we need to assess if it's worth it.

    Bradley has the best balance between attack and defense, and he should be a starter.

    That 11th guy, then, is the key to our balance.
     
  9. plorish

    plorish Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    So, even if Shea were to make the 23, how in the world do you think he'd be in the starting 11? It is true that someone usually does come in at the end like this, but actually I think Torres inclusion in the team is more akin to Dempsey's 2006 run. Remember, he was nowhere on the radar screen in most people's books, but even he got his first cap in November of 04. Did Shea even make the Gold Cup roster?
     
  10. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shea did not make the Gold Cup roster, since he will be going to U20 World Cup in September. If we need a true winger, then you plug Shea in and let him get wide. If Castillo does not make the switch, then he could also start at left back.

    If Shea has a great U20 World Cup, then a major European side is going to sign him. His combination of size and speed makes him different than other American prospects.
     
  11. Just out of curiosity, how is it that Torres has been given this defensive-weakness badge?

    He often plays deep for Pachuca and does quite well defensively as far as I can tell.

    Is it because of the Costa Rica game?
     

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