The Containment Unit: The YA League Comparison Discussion

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Testudo, Sep 21, 2014.

  1. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    The management were living in the past on past grandeur, making lots of mistakes back then, both inside and ouside the pitch ... in reality you could do nothing at the club without the approval of their founder and chairman back then ... he was personally picking up new players and hired his own son as director of sport, so when the coach made complaints they were just fired ... the fact that Goodson was made captain almost instantly when he arrived was also a strange move which made some of the other players unhappy, not least Krohn-Dehli, who had been vice-captain and then captain in the absence of Max von Schlebrügge ... now they have a new board, new money, new coach and new director of sport, trying to build up a team that actually fit their style of play.
    .
     
  2. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    #152 Ceres, Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
    It's not just a rumour... I actually watched John Terry and the Brøndby chairman together on Danish TV, where they told that they are close personal friends ... Terry also said that he keep track of the Brøndby results every week ... and then the Brøndby chairman said he was hoping to persuade Terry to chose Brøndby as his next club when he is ready to leave Chelsea and Terry said he was interested, but that it was a bit too soon for a move.

    As for the money, then it was the Brøndby chairman himself who payed the transfer fee when they got Agger from Liverpool, so it did not cost Brøndby anything ... and you often see that rich Northern European footballers chose their last club(s), not really thinking of the money, but because they have some sort of past connection to the club....
     
  3. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bradley Wright-Phillips just tied the MLS all-time mark for goals scored in a season
     
  4. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He scored goals in the Championship as well.
     
  5. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    But not at this rate. This MLS he averaged .94 goals per 90 minutes of play.

    His best seasons were in League One - 13g in 17m for Plymouth Argyle in 2010-11 and 22 g in 41 (+1 sub) for Charlton in 2011-12.

    Without the total minute count, it's impossible to find his exact scoring rate per 90 minutes but, approximately, his 2014 rate is about double of what it was in League One in his one full season with Charlton. His two half-seasons (Plymouth in 2010-11 and Brentford in 2012-13) produced 18 in 32 combined.

    But he surely proved he wasn't cut out for the Championship, scoring only once in his 19 appearances for Charlton in 2012-13, being subsequently released by the club.

    PS. And Twellman was right. BWP could have scored 45 goals in 2014 ... had he not been a League One level striker, whose finishing was rather poor by the Championship standards.

    PPS. Of other names that pop into my head - Marco Pappa could barely get any PT in Heerenveen over the last two years there, not scoring even once in the Eredivisie in his 12 appearances. He contributed rather solid 6 strikes in his 1,931 minutes for the Sounders.
     
  6. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Bears adding that BWP's finishing was terrible in his early MLS appearances, too, which is why he only scored twice in his first 13 games.
     
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  7. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    What about assists?
     
  8. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BWP was 2nd in MLS in G/90 at 0.94, behind Robert Earnshaw with 1.55.
     
  9. chitrader

    chitrader BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2002
    Hell-Lay
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Schevchenko lit up Serie A and was a complete bust in England. Therefore England is infinitely better than Italy.
     
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  10. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    BWP had a couple (but he didn't shoot enough ... had he just taken a shot from every opportunity, he could have scored a few more)

    BTW, I realized that Soccernet still has some old stats -

    In 2012-13, BWP had 10 starts with 9 sub appearances for Charlton in the Championship with 1 goal, no assists, 20 total shot with 15 of them on goal (?!). When he was loaned to Brentford of League One, he started 11 matches and subbed into 6, with 5 goals, 1 assist, 28 shots taken with 18 of them on goal.

    Here's his match breakdown, if anyone is interested in counting minutes.

    http://www.espnfc.com/player/45419/bradley-wright-phillips?season=2012

    Here's another case - Adis "Baggio" Husidic spent 2 years in Sweden's Superettan league (Swedish 2nd tier) where he scored a grand total of 1 goal in 41 matches with Hammarby. Upon his return to MLS in 2014, he scored 5 in 2,197 minutes (started 26 out of 34 played) played for the LA Galaxy.
     
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  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BWP's record just shows how incredible Henry is as a playmaker. Anyone who has actually watched MLS would know this. BWP is big and athletic, typically makes smart runs (which IMO is what puts him above your typical MLS striker) but has below average technique by MLS standards. Because he's taken so many PKs and because his teammates have put him into "harder to miss" territory so often, he's had a statistically great year.

    You know, if you actually watch MLS, Lloyd Sam is a far better argument for you "MLS is the sux!!!!" people.
     
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  12. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Anyone who has actually watched him knows he's isn't big at all.
     
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  13. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Giles Barnes finished with 11 goals and 5 assists.
     
  14. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    FWIW, Thierry Henry is credited with 14 assists of the NYRB's 54 total assists while BWP has 27 goals of the 55 scored by the team as a whole.

    To offer some further perspective. In 2011-12, when BWP played full time for Charlton in League One, he scored 22 of the team's 82 (Charlton won the league with 101 points and thereby gained a promotion to the Championship) but he was far from being the leading league scorer, as Jordan Rhodes had 36 that year for Huddersfield Town and Ched Evans (released October, 17 ... not from a club but rather a correctional facility) had 29 for Sheffield United.

    After being named the League One Player of the Year, Rhodes was sold prior to the 2012-13 season to Blackburn for ~ $13M, becoming then the most expensive English footballer outside of the EPL. To justify his price tag, Rhodes scored 27 goals in 2012-13 and 25 more in 2013-14 in the Championship and is believed to be one of the highest C-ship earners at about $2.5M/Y.
     
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  15. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Sheva got to Chelsea when he was 30 and, if one compares his post-30 stats, he scored 9 times for Chelsea in 47 EPL matches, then none for Milan in Serie A where he went back on loan in 18.

    He went back to the motherland for his last three years (ages 33-36) and scored 23g in 55m ... so, is it OK to state that Ukraine is weak?

    PS. As to BWP, it's like the guy has bad breath or something because no defender wants to even approach him. Counting the playoffs, he is averaging a goal per game.
     
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  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, about Husidic: he's probably the slowest outfield player on the Galaxy roster and has only average technique compared to other MLS players. His movement off the ball has been excellent in the second half of the season, but he was awful in his first few games and Galaxy fans questioned why he was starting. He's not a good example for comparing MLS to the Swedish second division because his play has improved immensely since the season began. Credit for that gets split between Bruce Arena and the Galaxy's other midfielders, with whom Husidic has good chemistry. Bruce signed him for his potential, not for his ability when the season started, and he's just been in the right situation to accelerate his development.
     
  17. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Husidic went 90 in 4 out of first six matches -

    March, 8 - late sub - 2 min

    March, 22; April, 6 and April, 12 - he went 90 in all three.

    April, 19 - he went 72

    May, 3rd - 90.

    May, 11 - 83.

    His Who Scored ratings were -

    March, 22 - 6.88
    April, 6th - 8.96 (MOTM)
    April, 12th - 7.21
    April, 19 - 7.04
    May, 3rd - 7.02
    May, 11th - 7.03

    http://www.whoscored.com/Players/143497/Fixtures/Baggio-Husidic

    So, he was, at worst, competent. At best, outstanding.

    For curiosity sake, these were Landon Donovan's grades for these same early matches where both got substantial PT.

    http://www.whoscored.com/Players/3433/Fixtures/Landon-Donovan

    March, 22 - 6.29
    April, 6th - 8.1
    April, 12th - 6.76
    April, 19th - 7.06
    May, 3rd - 6.86
    May, 11th - 7.26

    Adis averaged 7.36, Landon averaged 7.06.
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had two good games and four average ones. Interesting that you pick a 6-game cutoff, because Husidic then broke 7.0 in just two of his next fifteen games before becoming more consistently competent. Also, when ratings are broken down by formation, over the 12-game stretch that LA played with a diamond midfield (which included all six of the games you mentioned), Husidic was the 8th-best-rated Galaxy player. Donovan was 10th. You're conveniently excluding a much longer stretch of poor play, and comparing it to the part of the season in which Donovan was badly out of form.

    Being the 8th-best player on a team getting pedestrian results isn't exactly anything to write home about.
     
  19. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    You stated that Adis started slow but then was "coached up" by Arena. And I showed that it wasn't the case. I repeat, it wasn't the case. He started fine. He then tailed off.

    As to him being a pedestrian MLS player - I obviously never claimed him to be anything more than that. However, he wasn't deemed merely "pedestrian" in Sweden's second tier. He was deemed inadequate. He was waived/cut/dismissed from a club in Sweden's second tier. That's why he came back and signed that lucrative $90,000/year deal (not bad for your average person, not all that high for a soccer player ... basically, a League Two compensation and, if you think that Sweden's Allsvenskan is about the Championship level in quality, Superettan is League One, then a drop off from there pretty much does land you in League Two) with the Galaxy.

    And, once again, however pedestrian he is in MLS, his scoring rate is infinitely higher than it was for Hammarby.

    So, when you are comparing MLS with these various Euro leagues, keep these stats - from goals to wages - in mind.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  21. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    Don't mind the trolls. At 19, Donovan and Dempsey weren't even close to getting minutes for any teams in the top 4 leagues but it's ok for them to bash Julian Green because of some agenda.
     
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  22. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No agenda. Someone suggested MLS as an option and I posted "do not want on the Sounders". If that hurts your feelings I'm sorry. He's not good enough yet.
     
  23. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    #173 Namdynamo, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Outside of a few players on each MLS team, do you think the rest of the crap can get playing time on any Bundesliga teams?

    How many Americans are getting more playing time in the top 4 leagues than he is right now? Looks like Altidore isn't good enough for MLS neither.
     
  24. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno but I do know Green wouldn't get any meaningful playing time on the Sounders.
     
  25. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    And I'm sure that most of the Sounders would get no playing time at Hamburger SV.
     

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