OK - Even now, I'm a reluctant Bruce Arena supporter, but one area which I think is undeniably one of Bruce's strengths, is his ability to have success in tournaments like these. He seems to be very adept at getting his players ready, juggling his lineups so that everyone is used and kept more or less fresh, making unorthodox/unexpected moves that are often effective, and his ability to size up an opponent and develop an effective game plan against them. My interest in starting this thread is mainly because I'm interested in hearing what people here think Bruce will do with this squad and his strategy with so little time between games. I've listed some ideas below just to get things started: It seems totally obvious, but my guess is that Bruce will pick what he considers his A team against Turkey and go hard for the win in this one. Starting the tournament with a win is no guarantee of success, but I'm sure we all remember that World Cup stat about teams that win their first game. Then his first team will be fresher for the third game, another more beatable opponent, although he may mix and match by the third game. Given the first point, I think Bruce will likely use the "B team" against Brazil. "B team" probably isn't the best term for it since I think who Bruce thinks will be effective against Brazil will play a part, but I'm guessing that Bruce sees his other opponents as more beatable than Brazil and will try to get a draw using more or less overachieving bench players. Ideas for the first team: Hejduk over Cherundolo for games 1 and 3. Leaving aside who's better, Hejduk's speed and run-for-days fitness make him an obvious choice to start against Turkey. Mastro over Armas for 1 and 3. Mastro probably gets the edge in fitness, and I think Armas' defensive effort and experience may be needed to help prevent us from being swamped against Brazil. Kirovski over Mathis for 1 and 3. Don't shoot me, it isn't what I would do - I'm just guessing this is a possibility given the history and because Bruce may want someone like Mathis to help balance out the squad vs. Brazil. Beasely over Lewis for games 1 and 3. This could obviously go either way, but I'm just guessing that Bruce will want to partner DMB's speed with LD, who is a lock to start the first and last games. Other possible "first teamers": Vanney, Califf, Klein, Twellmann, I guess Stewart, and Howard. This leaves some questions and highlights some of Bruce's difficulties with this tournament -- do Convey, Martino and Gibbs start vs. Brazil? How will Cunningham be used? Would Berhalter be better suited against Turkey than Brazil? Anyway, Bruce is surely going to come up with something unexpected -- and these are just ideas -- but I'm curious to hear what others would do in his shoes. Given that MLS is in season and other teams not taking this tournament or our team very seriously, we may have a decent shot at getting to at least the semis.
I can't imagine starting Kirov ahead of Mathis - especially if you're going to concede the Brazil game. And I expect the young guns - Donovan, DMB and Convey to start all three games, though they could be subbed at the half vs. Brazil, depending on the score.
The thing I've noticed is that Arena seems to know what opponents will do and likes to attack the weaknesses of an opponents game plan. He knew that Portugal would atttack attack attack, he guessed that BMB would be single covered and could launch balls at him and let him hold the ball (which happened), and he knew that Beasley's and Donovan's speed would give the Portugese fits. Versus South Korea he figured that South Korea would probably pressure us all over the field. Thus having both O'Brien and Reyna playing in the middle of the field, and starting Mathis who is excellent under pressure. Poland game all strategy went out the window when they scored the 2 early goals. I'm not sure what Turkey does. My guess would be they play an all-around game that uses their technically superior players to their advantage. Kind of a possesion game. This reminds me of something that the Germans would do. If thats the case I would expect Arena to press them all over the field and attempt to dominate the midfield. Meaning you play Convey, Lewis, Mastroeni, Martino, and Klein in the same midfield. With Twellman and Donovan upfront. With Califf, Bocanegra, and Berhalter in the back. Control the field of play and get after these guys. Brazil and Cameroon will play a similar style. Go Full blast and attack like there is no tommorow. Vs Brazil you'll again have the big 3 in the back (this time let's go with Califf, Boca and Gibbs). Right wing will be Cherundolo, and Left Winger will be DMB. Have both Pablo and Armas in the match, let Convey be the play maker up top. And play Donovan and Mathis uptop. Against Cameroon we might see our traditional 442. Hejduk, Gibbs, Berhalter, and Vanney along the back. Klein, Armas, DMB, and Martino as our Midfield, and Cunningham and Twellman as our forwards. We won't be able to hold the midfield against them but with DMB, Martino, and Cunningham we should be able to counter fairly well.
I can't see DMB in the middle of a 4-4-2. I think his speed is more of an asset on the outside as well as his ball skills aren't great yet. RK
Yeah - you may be right. In the 99 Confed. Cup he did play Agoos 4 games in a row and 3 games in 6 days, so I probably should amend the post, because I think it's probably likely that Bocanegra will start all three games. I don't believe any other player other than Agoos played so much though. Here are the rosters from the last Confed Cup. 7/24 vs. New Zealand –US win 2-1. Kasey Keller, Carlos Llamosa, Jeff Agoos, Robin Fraser, John Harkes, Richie Williams, Jovan Kirovski, Eddie Lewis (Frankie Hejduk 77), Cobi Jones (Joe Max-Moore 81), Brian McBride, Ernie Stewart (Ben Olsen 72); 7/28 vs. Brazil – U.S. lose 1-0. Kasey Keller (captain), Jeff Agoos, Robin Fraser, Carlos Llamosa (Eddie Lewis, 68), Frankie Hejduk, Gregg Berhalter, John Harkes (Joe-Max Moore 57), Ernie Stewart, Cobi Jones, Jovan Kirovski, Brian McBride; 7/30 vs. Germany – U.S. win 2-0. Brad Friedel (captain), Jeff Agoos, Marcelo Balboa, C.J. Brown, Frankie Hejduk, Matt McKeon, Richie Williams, Eddie Lewis, Ben Olsen (Ernie Stewart 65), Joe-Max Moore (Jovan Kirovski 83), Paul Bravo (Brian McBride 77); Mexico 8/1 -- Kasey Keller (captain), Jeff Agoos, Gregg Berhalter, Robin Fraser, Frankie Hejduk, Richie Williams, John Harkes, Ernie Stewart, Cobi Jones, Jovan Kirovski, Brian McBride (Eddie Lewis 78). 8/3 vs. Saudi Arabia -- US win 2-0 -- Brad Friedel (captain), Gregg Berhalter (Robin Fraser 75), Marcelo Balboa, C.J. Brown, Frankie Hejduk, Matt McKeon, Eddie Lewis, Ben Olsen, Jovan Kirovski (Richie Williams 68), Paul Bravo (Cobi Jones 59), Brian McBride;
Whatever - I mainly just threw that out to start a discussion, so feel free to explain how you would juggle the lineups to get the first team to face Brazil. Maybe he'll rest many of the starters in the third game, as he did in 1999. My comment that he may play a completely different lineup vs. Brazil is probably nuts -- but I do think he will rest a big chunk of the starters at some point, although maybe not until Cameroon.
I think as far as personnel goes, Bruce's best move might be to match personnel in pairs who play well together. For example: Beasley and Donovan: Individually they both are capable of being dangerous. When they start combining with each other they become breathtaking.
What was Germany's line-up for this game? Hilarious that we beat them with McKeon, Bravo, and ABMOD. I agree with Dark Knight's first post. Arena will be flexible, but he's going to go all out in game #1 vs. the Turks. If we win (or probably draw, too), he will rest guys against Brazil. Then it's make or break agianst the Roonies. I thinks DK is also right with Kiro over Mathis, unfortunately. I do think Bruce's #1 Dmid will be Armas, however.
Bruce Arena's Mind I think vs Turkey we will go with three forwards: Mathis-Donovan-Kirovski. They can play possession and they can fall back (except Kirovski) to help the midfield stifle Turkey's long shots, 20-30 yard strikes. Klein has to be there because the Turks are physical and CK is physical (compare Stewart). Lewis will be playing left launcher position. Both CK and Lewis (except when he throws elbows) can defend. Armas or Mastroeni, who cares? Hejduk or Cherundolo, who cares? Bocanegra and Berhalter in the middle because they are seasoned and Califf is not. Vanney on the left in back. I expect the same four defenders to start the first two matches. Howard, need I mention him?
I understand that Bruce has been flexible in the past and kept the lineup constantly changing for tournaments, but you have to have some constants. I don't agree with the 1st and 3rd game rotation for either Lewis or Beasely. From what I've seen lately, Lewis is in the best form of his career, and it would be foolish not to have him out there as much as possible. And on top of DMB being able to run all day, I gotta think a young energetic player like him is gonna really WANT that Brasil match and will give everything in it. So I say Lewis and DMB play all three. As far as forwards go, I'm not real sure about Kirovski. Maybe put him w/ Donovan, Kiro can create chances and hopefully Donovan can finish? I'd pair LD w/ either Kirovski or Mathis to start all three. I just haven't seen enough from Twellman so far internationally that proves he can finish when it really counts. This is what managers get paid for, right?
I am looking forward to seeing Kirovski play with people who have as much skill on the ball as he does. Many of us have been talking about his ideal role being withdrawn behind two forwards, and this could be his chance with Donovan and Mathis in front of him. ps: Great Analysis, DK. Been wanting to do that for a while, but I can't write that many sentences in a row. Don't pay any mind to Brazilian know-it-alls, btw. There's lots of dichotomies in discussing/arguing with them. One thing's for sure-they don't know jack about chicken.
Germany: Jens Lehmann, Thomas Linke, Christian Worns, Lothar Matthaeus (captain), Joerg Heinrich (Mustafa Dogan 42), Heiko Gerber (Ronald Maul 75), Dariusz Wosz, Bernd Schneider, Horst Heldt (Paulo Rink 60), Oliver Neuville, Michael Preetz. Scoring: United States - Olsen (Bravo) 24; United States - Moore (unassisted) 50. http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/1999/games/jul30.htm I'll be really surprised if they both play sizable portions of all three games, although I don't think I ever would have picked Frankie to play left back against Portugal either, so who knows. Obviously, a lot depends on how the tournament progresses, but isn't the goal to get out of the first round and still have something in the tank for the second round? Playing tough against Brazil is important, but it's more important to have a chance to be competitive against Brazil or France later, and using your two best left sided players too much early might be counterproductive. Ain't that the truth...
Except this Cup is relatively meaningless, and is really being used as an evaluation for our younger players. That said, Bruce does like to win, and has done well in these tourneys since he's been coach.
It's not meaningless. It gets us VERY important ranking points toward getting a possible seed in 2006. I don't think he's going into it expecting to win it or even caring about winning it. But I think he'd like to get out of the group and possibly get a runner up or 3rd place finish (i.e., winning at least 1 of those last 2 games).
First off, anyone who's team that tries to play all 3 group games with sides that only change 1 or 2 players between games will get smoked when they get to the semifinals. These games are just too close together (2 days apart compared to 3-4 days apart in a WC) without enough time to fully recover. So you have to make compromises somewhere. If one of the teams wins all 3 of its games, then another team that wins 2 would advance as 2nd place. So, Arena will build his game plan around trying to win 2 games. Obviously, the first one you target to win is Cameroon. Considering that Brazil is just 2 days before Cameroon, it would be tough to go all out with a #1 team in both those games. That would actually be a recipe for screwing up the Cameroon game. Therefore, it makes sense to field our strongest teams in games 1 & 3 and just hope for the best against Brazil. One of the keys will be what happens with Brazil v. Turkey in their 3rd games. It is entirely possible that Brazil figures we're the weakest and plays their weakest squad against us figuring they need their strongest squad against Turkey. If we are able to upset Turkey, but then Turkey is able to beat Brazil, that makes it tougher for us to advance -- we could conceivable all be 2-1 and goal differential would decide it. If we are able to upset Turkey and then Brazil and Turkey lose, then we're in pretty good shape. So to say that we're idiots for expecting Arena to field our weakest team against Brazil shows your stupidity about the competition. It has nothing to do with what we expect FROM Brazil. Us fielding our weakest team against Brazil would not mean that we think Brazil is the weakest team we play. It's just the way things work out.
While I bet that BA has some overall tactical sense of how he will handle each game that will make some players more likely to play in one game versus the other, I doubt very much that he has the concept of the 'A' team in games 1 and 3. On ussoccer.com his interview indicates that he doesn't know all that much about the personnel of Turkey (though I bet he knows more than he is saying). He also says something which I think every coach says, in particular to us 'non coaches' who want to discuss the hypothetical.. "We have no real game plan at this point on how we’re going to break our team up to be able to play three games in five days. We’ll deal with it one game at a time." This makes a pile of sense. You have no idea who will be hurt, suspended, etc. between games for any of the teams. So, to spend a lot of time and effort about getting specific three games out can be wasted time. Understand that he is not going to go into any game expecting to lose. That sets the wrong tone for the players on the field and eventually your leadership of them. You always want to put your team in a position to win. I understand all the 'future games' thinking, but you must realize, every team is going to have that issue. You just have to have the confidence that your team has the depth and balance to handle it better than the other teams.
The goal in the first round is to survive and advance. For the US, that means 4 to 6 points. I think Turkey will be the most difficult to play against of the 3 teams. Ignoring Turkey's 3-0 win against China, Turkey never scored more than one goal in the other games at WC2002. Turkey is a dangerous counter-attacking team. Long ball against Turkey will not work. The way to beat Turkey is to win the midfield. We've got to play a 3-5-2 or a 4-5-1. Turkey isn't going to score more than one goal on us, but if they do, we will find it very difficult to equalize. We've got to control the midfield and hope to get something through short combination play, keeping at least 2 defenders back at all times. Hopefully we can get 1 to 3 points out of this one. The way to beat Brazil is to attack them. The way to attack is by moving the ball around very quickly and attacking with great speed and misdirection. No one ever wins the midfield against Brazil, but you've got to minimize their midfield possession. The Brazilian backline is always a bit suspect, so the US needs to attack it with great vigor. Long ball and crosses sometimes cause trouble for Brazil. Controlling the speedy Brazilian flanks is the key here. Gibbs and Hejduk are going to have long days. If the US gets an early jump, we have a chance to get 1 to 3 points here. Cameroon is a team with tremendous speed and individual flare, but is lacking in discipline. I would advocate a 4-4-2 and run them into the ground. I think the best way to beat Cameroon is with the penetrating dribble. Surge after surge into the box and they will eventually foul you and you will get the PK. Hopefully we won't need points from this match and can rest some important players. I think you go out and try to get as many points as possible in the first two matches rather than being tactical and saving yourself for the 3rd match. You never know how things are going to play out in the other matches. These are all pre-game generalities. Of course DaBruce will adjust to each game as they play out. His main goal is to survive and advance while not playing people all 3 matches. It's a difficult challenge, but it's absolutely essential for tournament play.
Underestimated again?! It's great to see that in all interviews I've seen with Turkey and Cameroon coaches the US is never mentioned. Turkey wants to beat Brazil - no mention of us. Cameroon wants to beat Brazil and Turkey - no mention of us. Of course Brazil is the highest rated in our group, but you'd think we deserve some attention. Time to sneak up on another tournament.
Even if you think the Cup is meaningless (which I don't), in order to have the maximum opportunity to evaluate younger players you need to make it out of the group. Both CC and Gold Cup include a 3rd place game, so getting out of the group provides for a 5 game (instead of 3 game) tourny, which is far more instructive for evaluating players.
Bruce plays basically two tactical variations, depending on the formation of the opponent. Not sure if any of these three teams play a 3-5-2 but we seem to have done especially well with the one we use against that. Our three more forward midfielders and the two strikers tend to ask very tough questions of the other team's defense in that - and a number of our players have become pretty good at it. I would really like to see Twellman and Mathis paired at striker in one game, with Donovan in the 5-hole, Lewis on the left and Klein on the right, but I probably won't.
I agree with you about Turkey and Cameroon (heck I said that stuff to in my post earlier in this thread ). But I almost completly disagree with you about Brazil. If you attack Brazil you get something like what happened to Costa Rica. A 5 -2 match. In any sport its almost suicide to press a team thats explosive offensivly. Case in Point - Manchester United vs Real Madrid @ Old Trafford. ManU attacked like there was no tommorow (because there was none), and Madrid just sat back and punished them. We'll have to counter-attack vs Brazil. This'll be very similar to Portugal