Rumor: The Coming <soft> Rebrand

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Jasper_Black, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    What a pal!
     
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  2. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    always surprises me the things people care about
     
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  3. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Not to get too semantic, but what you’re saying is that 99+% of all teams are not clubs but call themselves a club, so contextually it does make sense for the Fire to use the word.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  4. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    Ha. In a very sad way it does; local institutions just becoming faceless corporations. The new name just reeks of phoniness or pretending to be something you’re not to me.

    Here’s a good local analogy. Calling yourself “a football club” when you’re a franchise is like saying you’re from Chicago when you grew up in Naperville.
     
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  5. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    The EPL sucks, so I hate the “FC”. I accept the “SC” because it was close to original.
     
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  6. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    or, in other words, language changes and words don't mean the same thing today they mean 100 years ago. Quelle surprise.
     
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  7. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    It’s not that “football club” means something else today; it’s that it is completely meaningless as a word now / is used as a “cool branding” for new teams coming out of thin air that want credibility (NYCFC, LAFC, etc.).

    There was already a term for what you are describing as a “football club,” it’s called a soccer team which is what I have always called the Chicago Fire and still what describes them best.
     
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  8. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    It still means something. The definition that bunge supplied was directly on point. It just doesn't mean what you want it to mean anymore (if it ever actually did).

    Loyal language descriptivist checking in.
     
  9. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Being a season ticket holder and going to the games, I felt part of a "club" in 1998-2003 or so, maybe a bit later,
    whether it was dues paying "club" created by an organic assemblage of workers at a factory, or a region within a city, or distinct ethnic group within a city/other geographic area
    or a prefab, corporate, single-entity "franchise."
    I felt part of a club.

    -Part was the comraderies among the fans (tailgates that were just- fans cooking and drinking in the parking lots, the tiny fan groups that sprung up around the area to meet and watch the games).
    -Part was the treatment of fans by the team and management (especially, but not exclusively, Peter Wilt. The season ticket reps were part of that, as well.) but also the "events" like the meet and greets, where we were able to actually meet and greet the team.
    -Part was the success, the feeling that the team could (no should) win it all each year, or, at least, win something.

    Those feelings are long, long, long gone. They are not, ever, coming back to the Chicago Fire, Chicago Fire SC, Chicago Fire FC or whatever the name becomes.

    The landscape has changed.
    The "culture" is gone.
    No rebrand, no change in the team colors, no new "logo" or "crest" or whathaveyou, will bring that back.

    Of course, we are all older, as well, and that has changed things quite a bit.

    The only thing that can right this ship at this point, and this has been the case for several years, is success.
    It is going to take a massive investment in talent, and some really good PR, to bring the fans back, the passion back.
     
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  10. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    Not only did it mean what I said it meant, but it’s where the term came from. Please prove me wrong if you have evidence to the contrary that football clubs started as social clubs of people from the same location who came together to form a team to compete against one another. I’ll concede that many that bear the moniker today long ago stopped being football clubs, sold themselves to the highest bidder, and didn’t change their name because it was their identity.

    By this new definition you’re suggesting every college soccer team in the US is a football club. Their playing is subsidized by someone besides themselves and they play in front of fans. Hell every youth soccer team is a football club then since parents pay to organize the tournaments / watch the games. Basically any soccer team is a football club now, making the term... meaningless and totally interchangeable.
     
  11. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Sure what's wrong with saying there are amateur and youth clubs? Still consistent with the definition and therefore not "meaningless." I think instead of "meaningless" you really mean "valueless" in that you held this preconceived sanctity to the concept of a club, but which even you admit is basically antiquated in the modern world.

    In fact, I would go as far to say that if 99% of the world uses the word in a different fashion then the definition has substantively changed and those who use an outdated definition are in the wrong.
     
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  12. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    my god, the pedantry
     
  13. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Welcome to Bigsoccer. We hope you enjoy your stay!
     
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  14. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    I demand we continue the pedantic nature of this debate! ;) (I’m bored and this is the only real Fire related news until April).

    I agree it’s an antiquated (but romantic) notion. I also agree that any value of being a “football club” is derived from being related to that antiquated notion.

    If it is truly valueless today though (meaning nobody associates “football club” with “being authentic” anymore), why has the Fire FO added it to the team’s name? Why are all the new MLS teams adding this valueless term to their name? Why not just be the Austin Aztec instead of Austin FC?

    The reason is because the moniker “football club” must still have value because enough people associate it with storied European “football clubs” and not Timmy’s AYSO team.
     
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  15. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I didn't mean intrinsically valueless, I meant valueless to you specifically since it no longer carries the same reverence.
     
  16. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    you literally just said "It’s not that “football club” means something else today; it's that the word "football club" no longer means what it meant before and now it doesn't mean what I think it should mean"

    There was already a word for lots of things that are described by new words today. You need to get over the idea that you can freeze or impose meaning on language and just admit that "football club," "soccer club," and "soccer team" are synonyms today. It really doesn't matter what they meant a century ago any more than it matters what word like cute or nice meant 500 years ago.
     
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  17. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    but they don't associate it with the rich history of factory towns distracting their indentured servants from the misery of working 70 hour weeks for sub-subsistence wages in filthy, dangerous conditions by having a group of (occasionally) local lads run around a muddy pitch in the pretended name of civic pride.

    They associate it with some text they vaguely recall seeing on the screen under a Ronaldo or Messi highlight.
     
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  18. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    They have become so, but in doing so, the meaning has eroded to the point that club doesn’t mean anything more than team as you admit. It went from being something very specific to becoming a totally generic term (generic=meaningless in my mind since it applies to everything rather than to a specific thing)

    My point was being a club meant something once, now it’s a cheap branding sticker applied to every new team to seem cool when all being a “club member” gets you now is to be on an email distribution list and get sent some junk in the mail occasionally. It’s transparent pandering to europhiles. Do we agree on that point at least?

    I think we’re agreed on it being dumb pandering?
     
  19. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Football club, soccer club I don't care if you call it Saturday night knitting club just WIN.
     
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  20. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right?! FFS, this has been the most inane bickering this side of a bridge game.
     
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  21. moleman

    moleman Member

    Jan 7, 2017
    What did you expect from a 97 page thread discussing an inane name change and ugly badge update?
     
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  22. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta love these off season threads. When we can’t argue about which of our players/coaches/opponents sucks the most, we really get into some fun territory.
     
  23. skinut

    skinut Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2000
    Castle Pines, CO (or often elsewhere on earth)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Next subject: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin at the same time?

    Honestly, I couldn't care less about the current conversation. However, I'm also all for it as what else are you gonna talk about during the opening dregs of the preseason?
     
  24. GHjelm

    GHjelm Member+

    Apr 23, 2008
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    How big's the pin?
     
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  25. pena pirata

    pena pirata Member+

    Sep 28, 2013
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Serious question, are they ball sucking?
     
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