The Coming ‘Golden Generation’ Will Not Accomplish What the 2002 Team Accomplished

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by NietzscheIsDead, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Thats a great set of observations from Henry.
     
  2. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even that is a lofty expectation.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be better than The Netherlands, Belgium, Uruguay and Portugal? Not really given the money and resources being pumped in. A few upgrades down the spine and a couple of global superstars and we're there.
     
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  4. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of global superstars! Easy-peasy!

    No... my point would be, you're not competing against a random 4 "top" sides who are clearly not top 5-6 to be considered "top 10". You're competing against the next 10 or whatever sides who, at any given moment, have the infrastructure, the culture, and the appetite to be able to pop up into that top 10. We're talking about cultures that have already produced world class superstars. The US hasn't. So why would the US do that before they do it again?

    I'm talking about all of Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Uruguay, Colombia, Portugal, Croatia... and that's conservative. Chile has previously/recently done things arguably much better than anything from the US in modern times. They've produced a better player than has ever played for the US. Denmark & Switzerland, they've created more near-world class players than the US has.

    So, we're actually not talking about the US improving and being "better than" the 4 teams you listed; we're talking about a parlay between betting on the US developing significantly, and also betting against that field developing just as well. That's what I think is lofty. You're not competing against 4, you're competing against 10-12 football-rabid cultures who have already in many ways done better at developing talent.
     
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  5. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    We don't know what the future has for us. Japan and Morocco also have little history but are improving fast to the point where I would consider them as good as or better than Belgium, Uruguay, Portugal, etc.

    There's still a lot of time and a lot can happen in 76 years. I think we can start developing world-class or elite players in the next 20 to 30 years consistently just by the way we are improving. To the point where we can have a top soccer roster. The rest falls into luck. Every things comes down to luck.
     
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  6. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. All I'm saying is it's a big leap, from top 20 to top 10. Current top 10 ain't going anywhere!
     
  7. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Who's in the top 10?
     
  8. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right now? Mostly the usual suspects, I'd guess... Brazil, France, Spain, Argentina, Germany, England, Colombia, Portugal, Netherlands? There's 9. Who's next, Belgium? Italy?

    Any reason to expect US to leapfrog any of these guys for the foreseeable future? That's really what I mean by "not going anywhere"... the US can continue to develop players, but so can everyone else. And most of those competitors for "top 10" already evidently do it better than the US.
     
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  9. Sorry to have to point at a fatal difference between Morocco and the USA, considering Morocco's move forwards.
    Morocco isnot improving anything. The profit from the development qualities of the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Spain by recruting players, who actually are Dutch, Belgians etc.
    That's something the USA hasnot got. Dual nationals of top quality in those countries AND willing to skip a call from those countries.
     
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well we know the top 7, though Germany have slipped out the top 10 temporarily.

    Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Spain, France and England.

    Then you have Netherlands, Belgium, Uruguay and Portugal but they can cycle in and out depending on the generation.

    The next group I'd suggest is Serbia, Colombia, Croatia, Morocco, Japan, South Korea, the US, Mexico and Switzerland.

    If Canada can produce Davies and David out of nowhere and Morocco can find foreign born players like Hakimi, Bounou and Ziyech, I don't see why the US can't, especially given the hundreds of $millions being invested.

    It just takes time but I'm convinced it will happen.
     
  11. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US can... no one is saying otherwise.

    And so can the Netherlands, Belgium, Uruguay, Portugal, Serbia, Colombia, Croatia, Morocco, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, and Switzerland. Not to mention Denmark, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, Bosnia, Chile, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ukraine, Turkey, and Sweden.

    Hard to crack that top 10! Lots of people been trying.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those countries will never crack the top ten consistently.

    By never I mean not in the near future.
     
  13. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree but they've produced more talent than the US!
     
  14. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Time will tell
     
  15. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Morocco should be seen differently. Africa basically produces one top 10 side every 4-10 years and it constantly switches.

    Cameroon was really good in 90…Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, and Senegal have all had good teams. They all seem to get one group of players and then fade.

    Maybe more accurate would be one of the best 12 teams in the world is always from Africa in the last 35 years but no country is able to stay on top…
     
  16. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    There are a lot of countries that can rely on other countries to develop their players. USA could be one but it's much better to create our players.
     
  17. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    I think if we’re talking 30 years from now or something, if MLS can become a top 3 league in the world or so. That could be a real advantage for American players to have a home league of high qualify. I don’t think that’s necessarily unrealistic.

    I also think our coaching will improve relative to where it is now. We have plenty of reason to think we are still in position to be an ascending nation, even if other top nations continue to improve.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It won't be a top 3 League without access to the UCL because that's where the money is and that's where players want to play. It can be the best league outside the top 4 or 5.
     
  19. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    30 years is a long time. We don't know what will happen to the Club World Cup. That could turn into a big tournament for clubs.
    An issue with MLS and NWSL is that there's not a big tournament for clubs. No UCL or Copa Libertadores. No one cares about the Leagues Cup when it's only in one country.
    If MLS could turn into Brasileiro Série A or Liga Profesional de Fútbol. That type of level now we are talking. We don't need a top 2 league, we need a respectful league
     
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  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even the top Brazilian and Argentinian teams get to play in a respected continental competition. The US is limited by its geography.

    The NWSL is arguably as respected as any other league but it has access to the world's best players, the best attendances, some "glamor" owners and probably the highest revenue of any women's league.
     
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  21. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree, but hear me out. MLS could go all the way to number 2 probably.

    What this would require is that the EPL get such a financial advantage that it moreless kills all the other European leagues. If you look at the financial state of the big 3 in Italy and Barca currently this isn’t that far off, but…

    Germany is healthy, Italy is on the rise, and Barca will eventually figure it out so currently 5th is probably the MLS ceiling, but there is no guarantee on the stability of several of the European leagues. But right now MLS isn’t even a top 10 league.
     
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  22. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not probably. I looked this up in another thread but very few women’s teams in Europe have an operating revenue over $1 million like 12 total teams. Every NWSL team has that so more than half of the best funded teams in the world are in the US (14 teams)
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's top 10 based on average team. The majority of leagues are dominated by between 2 and 4 teams. The rest are ho hum or USL material.
     
  24. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    It's the same with the NWSL. The NWSL is the best league overall, but its peak is not the best.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slightly different because
    - NWSL is smaller
    - Half of of the best players in the world are North American
    - NWSL has the money to attract the best players in the world, even with a salary cap

    So more of the world's talent, split fewer ways, enables it to "compete" with the best leagues in Europe.
     

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