The Coming ‘Golden Generation’ Will Not Accomplish What the 2002 Team Accomplished

I hear what you’re saying, but the team is still young and untested. I think we need to see how they respond to adversity first before we cast the label that they’re not going to make it.

I think if we can get everyone healthy, get past this Covid stuff, keep away from other off field distractions, and really emphasize hunger in this squad, they can do alright. But I think the team has been so fragmented lately that it’s so hard to tell.

 

How do you determine that they lack principles ? What age range defines this generation for you?

In the 2002 WC Reyna was 28, McBride 30, Friedel 31, Mathis 25, O'Brien 24. You had Stewart, Sanneh, Meola, Agoos, Keller, Jones all in their 30's. Pope was 28. Leadership often comes with experience. You're making this declaration prematurely.

 

Quarterfinal? Hell, we just want to qualify for the damned thing.

 

Hindsight quite clearly shows that the success of the USMNT was because of Donovan and Dempsey. Donovan was a great player and our lack of success since then shows how much his presence made the team winners.

 

We'll have to wait until 2026 at least for anything close to an apples to apples comparison as you're comparing a 2002 team of mostly seasoned pros with a couple kids supplementing them to a team of nothing but kids trying to prop up the lost generation that has failed at every step.

We still have to wait and see who really makes it in far too many cases. The guys are all so young that I'd say we only have a handful that are actually established players at their clubs. Basically, it's Pulisic, McKennie and Dest with maybe a shout out to Adams although injuries have kept him down and he's not solidified his role in Leipzig, coming off the bench more than starting. Most of the rest are still trying to break through. Reyna looks a sure shot to me, but he is still a kid who hasn't played more than 20 minutes yet. So yeah, the 2002 team at their peak were better than what is essentially an U23 team right now with a few overage spots saved for guys who aren't even as good as the youth.

On the 2002 team, we had at least as many if not more players established on teams in good leagues: Dolo at Hannover, Hejduk was playing for Leverkusen, O'Brien for Ajax, Sanneh was in the Bundesliga, Moore was at Everton, Earnie was still playing in Holland, Claudio in the Permier League. Both our goalies were Premier League starters. All these guys were real players at these clubs, not youngsters getting spot minutes. And, that's not even mentioning guys like Donovan and Pope, two of the best players in the squad or Mathis and McBride, either of which would merit a starting spot up top these days and both of whom would eventually make it to Europe. I think people tend to act like the kids today are our first crop getting minutes in Europe, but that is not the case. I'm too lazy, but an interesting comparison would be how many minutes US players played in top 4 leagues in 2020 vs. 2002.

So yeah, the 2002 team was more accomplished than the guys we have now. But, I do think that by 2026 when the current crop are more established and supplemented with other young players coming up. They may well be able to replicate the 2002 run if the ball bounces the right way (which is did in 2002 for sure). But this is all pretty straight forward and has nothing to do with vague platitudes about principles or leadership. It's because the comparison is between the previous best team ever for the US playing at it's peak with a team of established veterans vs. a team of youngsters just coming into their own, which is completely unfair to the current crop. If 2026 comes and goes and the guys today can't make their mark, then the criticisms get a lot more valid, but right now it's apples to oranges.

 

As others have mentioned, these guys are all young and people mature through their 20s. We may learn more about 'principles to fight for a greater goal ' as they become sure of who they are as people.

Off the pitch, we've already seen McKennie, Adams, and Reyna all voice support, to varying degrees, for George Floyd/BLM. That's a taking a stand for a 'greater principle' if I've ever seen one. So we're beginning to learn about these guys' personalities.

We're also learning about them on the field. McKennie has shown against Mexico, and other games as well, that he's gonna not take crap from anyone and he'll stand up for his teammates through thick and thin. Adams has some fieriness to him as well, as we've heard stories about him trash talking back in his MLS days. He seems like a really steady locker room presence as well and wants to be seen as a leader, as evidenced through the various podcast interviews he's given. Pulisic seems like the guy to keep his head down and fight, not afraid to challenge himself on the highest stages. Reyna might be like Dempsey (obviously not on the 2002 WC but he fought for the USMNT) and he'll just try sh*t, we'll find out in the coming years. How much could we say for mentality of the 2002 roster when they were all 17-21? I'd argue not much, not because they didn't have principles but because they didn't have opportunities to display them.

Maybe what binds all these guys together is missing out on 2018. We know that crushed Pulisic and IIRC Adams has said something to the effect that he's not going to let the USMNT miss the world cup again. Wanting to overcome the stigma of the USA not qualifying for the 2018 WC (even if most of the guys played no part in qualifying) might drive this team towards success.

 

I kind of feel similar, although I wouldn't say lack of principles. I think we'll continue to see unprecedented club success from individual guys, but I'm skeptical of that special something all coming together for next level NT success. Just seems like that "us against the world mentality" isn't quite there these days.

But I hope I'm wrong and we at least return to the quarterfinals with this group. Things can fall into place quickly.

 

This is a very vague post and I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at. What 'principles' are they lacking specifically? Also, what do you mean by 'hopeful culture?'

I liked the 2002 team, but let's not fool ourselves. Luck played a HUGE part in their quarterfinal run. South Korea beat Portugal after we got trounced by Poland to send us through to the next round. Then we were matched up against Mexico in the round of 16. Could the current group go 1-1-1 in group play in a World Cup and then beat Mexico in the next round. Yes, absolutely.

 

Just not in 2006.

 

Good point.

The average age of the 2002 WC roster was 28.

The average age of the 2019 GC roster was 24.26.

That's a hell of a difference.

 

I kinda liked when Dest guaranteed a win against Canada and did not apologize for his statement when the press called him out on it. I think a bunch of these guys have what it takes. They certainly look a ton more hungry than most of the guys that the FED put out on the field at Cova.

 

This Golden Generation is so young, almost all can play for the Olympic team.
Too soon to compare. The interesting part is most of the young ones are doing way better than the 2002 players when they were this young.

 

Folks, don't take the bait.

The young players are fierce fighters in europe who are daily battling it out on the grind. They are currently showing immense maturity and fight such as Sargent at Werder and Mckennie at Schalke. Talent gets you a spot on the bench but not a regular playing spot.

Gio Reyna and Josh Sargent never played together at the time of this photo. They know their USMNT mission.

 

One thing I don't get is the argument that these 2002 guys were all such great players internationally. You make this long list, and it sounds impressive.

But a quick couple wiki searches on my phone show -

Hedjuk had 19 appearances w leverkeusen over 4 years.
Obrien had 63 appearances with Ajax over 7 years.
Sanneh 80 in 6 years.
Moore 52 in 3 years

Dolo/gks/Reyna I'll give you.

It really seems like hindsight makes these guys loads more impressive than a cursory look of stats would say they were.

Maybe these appearances don't show how key these guys were for their teams, but initial findings show many of these guys weren't "real players at these clubs".

Our squad in the next world cup will be supremely more talented man for man than the 02 team. Whether they perform to that level depends on a range of factors, but I don't think it's unlikely.

 

Adams and Wes. Adams in particular is hungry for everything.

 

The 2002 players were at college.

 

With only two players reaching World Cup level more or less consistently (Pulisic and Adams), and those two not even safe as starters in their club, I'd say it's very premature to call this one a "Golden Generation."

 

And the point is even those guys had far more professional games under their belts than the current crop. I like the new guys and I think they include some of our most talented players ever. But, we also had some good players in the past and the new kids have to actually get on the field and get some results before they get the credit. They have to actually be better, not just have the talent and potential to be better. I think they may well get there, some individual players may be there already, but a Quarterfinal wasn't anything to sneeze at and they have a bit of work to do before they get the results they need to be compared to our most successful team of the past. This team has currently done absolutely nothing. That's OK, it is all in front of them. But, we don't know the future. We do know what another team actually accomplished. To be the best, you've got to beat the best. It isn't just given. We have some time to wait for this batch in my estimation.

 

What principles and hopes led the 2002 team to go out and throw their tournament away against a mediocre Poland team? What principles and fight almost had them not qualify, getting in by the skin of their teeth? What principle let a flagrant red card/hand ball by O'Brien go uncalled against Mexico?

You are mistaking random results for something.

Many of the same players were on the 2006 team with the same coach. What principles did they show in that disaster?

2010 had the same type of players, probably better, but what principles did they show against Ghana?

Give the team a chance.

 

Ok, that's all fine. It just seemed like you were making the point that all these '02 guys were "established" on all these top Euro clubs, rather than having "more professional games under their belt". Those are two different arguments. The '02 team was certainly more experienced (though don't get me started again on the "value" of experience after what we just saw the last 5 years). I just think we all like to wax poetic about that '02 team (justifiably so), and they didn't really do anything out of the ordinary except beat Portugal. Their second most impressive result in that tourney, in my mind, was losing to Germany.

From a club perspective, getting 5-15 appearances per season for a Euro club isn't showing me much. Reyna has done that in half a season for a better team than any of those guys played for.

 

Well, the only thing they did out of the ordinary was advance further in the World Cup than any other US team in modern history. I'd say that's an accomplishment the new crop could set their sights on. Fingers crossed they can do it.

 

Again, that's waxing poetic. Great. It was a great experience. They were 2-2-1, right? With a loss in a must-win against South Korea?

It's awesome to say they made it further than any other team. But it's not like that team was so much better than any other, or performed any differently. They performed virtually the same in the group as the 2010/2014 versions, and then got lucky with an easy 2nd rounder.