The Champions League is killing Football

Yes, but as is always patienly pointed out whenever this debate comes around again on here and the parallel to the major American sports is inevitably trotted out, there's no credible comparison between the NBA/NFL/NHL and the myriad situation in Europe. A salary cap would only work if

a) all countries in Europe could be forced to implement it and
b) all countries in Europe had effective and transparent enforcement of it.

Otherwise, capitalisms natural forces kick in. Much as water always chooses the path of least resistance, so money and talent will inevitably flow to the market with the most to offer in the most accessible environment.

As to Chelsea and what they rely on: they're immune from the normal rules of fiscal prudence for as long as Abramovich remains amused by the fact that one of his pets has 11 heads and 22 legs, but rest assured that they very much do rely on CL revenue in any case. Even if we readily take their "five year plan" (well, seven, oh alright - eight ... well, one day!) with a giant sack of salt, there's a clear business imperative to make as much money as possible from the available sources of income outside of Uncle Roman's big fat wallet.

It's not that I think it's worse of necessarily. I'm sure lots of people find it all terribly, terribly exciting and important that they can watch Shaktar Donetsk against Udinese in the Intertoto Cup Third round whilst the rest of us are out in the sunshine. Live and let live, like. No one has to actually expose themselves to all this increased coverage. I can, should I so desire, use the "Red Button" to flick between every single matchday game in the CL, live and direct from around Europe. I'm sure some people actually do. There's a sports bar in town that has one match on each of its ten or so giant screens and I'm sure some people go there and not elsewhere for that reason. Me, I have a life. I'll watch Liverpool games and, if Liverpool aren't playing then maybe one or two of the juicier games, domestically and in Europe, that the average season throws up. Hell, I even watch England game sometimes. So it's not like I'm immune to the Syndrome or anything. I just can't be arsed to join the circus, that's all. But there is a difference between recognising the value of yesteryear and actively hankering for that distant past. That's futile.

 

You're just whining, it would suck the way you seem to want it.

 

In other words...There will never be a European salary cap, there simply is no demand for a salary cap even.

If the clubs are not allowed to pay out the money our sponsors will. Or our supporter clubs, or our local governments etc etc.
There is also the problem of some companies in Europe having a soccer divisions owning a team, or political parties owning teams, trade unions owning teams, non-profit organisations owning teams, churches owning teams and even in some cases criminal gangs owning teams.
In the whole of Europe you have in excess of a thousand pro-teams..trying to monitor all of them is simply not possible.

 

Bayern Munich is playing not CL this season, for the first time since 11 years. I am not quit unhappy with that. Cause fpr me as a Football Fan, it was and is to see otjer teams other stadiums than the last years before. Every to play against the same teams in the CL, was starting to boring. I don't know how many times Bayern played Real or Milan during the last years. In the old knockout cups, how many times in years have been played against the same time? Very seldom I think. And this was making it interesting. I also think that it might would be a good idea, to bring the old Cup Winners Cup back, and I only can hope that they will not bring back the second group stage of the CL.

 

Not really, you're talking about an extra £600,000 per place.

 

i think the thread question really depends on what team you support to an extent.

being a celtic fan i look forward to champions league matches over all other SPL games, except the celtic-rangers matches of course.

for a middling side in european football the group stage is still an exciting time and far ahead of the SPL in terms of tension, atmosphere and technical ability. i'd always choose celtic-benfica over celtic-kilmarnock. the downside of course is we have next to no chance of getting near the final anymore. for celtic that comes down to one thing - finances, or lack of. we're financially sound with next to no debt but with an annual TV income from setanta of around £2mill it's impossible for us to get close to an even footing with the big boys.

having a bigger champions league gave us a chance to get to a european final for the first time in over 30 years. on our march to seville we still played some good teams, stuttgart, liverpool, celta vigo. the three days i spent there will be etched on my memory forever and may not have been possible were it not for the expanded CL.

as for the cup winners cup, well, that was already dying a death before it got put out of existence anyway. back in the 80's the UEFA had a higher pedigree but the cup winners was already being looked upon as less of a competition than the current UEFA cup is now.

 

1. no offense taken. it's the SPL after all. believe me i watch it week in/week out. it's actually becoming more competitive but thats mainly because celtic/rangers are regressing instead of the rest of the teams improving.

2. i completely agree that we shouldn't have been in the UEFA cup that year. there shouldn't be a parachute fallout to the UEFA cup from the third round qualifying or placing third in your CL group. promoting failure is always a bad idea. i still enjoyed the ride though

the CL helps us more than the SPL in trying to remain competitive to an extent. last season i believe we made somewhere around £12mill from the CL. compare that to our £2mill from setanta for SPL coverage. without the CL money we'd really struggle.

 

The last time was a few weeks ago, when Olympiakos and Fenerbahce made it, both huge surprises, especially Olympiakos regarding their group. Regarding epic encounters, Werder vs Real Madrid was very enjoyable, as far as I heard Real vs Olympiakos was fun to watch, too. Olympiakos beating Werder twice and Rosenborg beating Valencia twice where epic in the sense of huge upsets... maybe not exactly epic encounters, but where there really so many epic encounters in the autumn part of the season before? Apart from that, the situation now is not that everything in the group stage is predictable but that we have 8-10 teams that are almost sure to qualify for 2nd round, another 8 or so that are almost sure to be out, and the rest is interesting. Like I said in my first post, for German teams except Bayern, the second round is not given, they might get it and they might fail, this is why I am very interested in the group stage.

And btw, I doubt you will ever get minnows as strong as in the 80s again, since with Bosman and the ever increasing amounts of money earned in the big leagues, and not the least with the split of the once strong Soviet and Yugoslavian leagues into smaller and less impressing leagues you have much more of a concentration in the big leagues than ever before, the CL is not a reason for this, but only a symptom.

 

FFS - do you never, ever get the feeling that an obviously sensible and thoughtful discussion perhaps isn't improved by your unique brand of contribution?

How about either not posting at all, or taking the time to think of something worth posting before doing it?

 

True, but the clubs just below the big four now have enough money to challenge. The big four cannot get much better. They cannot attract better players because they will be worried about playing time and too many egos. Where the big four cannot improve the other teams can. They can attract players from other leagues. They can afford high wages to keep their stars or buy new ones. So yes, although everyone's money would increase proportionally you will find most of the big four's new money will go into the chairman's pocket, leaving other clubs time to catch up on them.

 

but can the teams other than the big four really sustain that policy?

most of their money comes from TV deal. a lot of teams use a proportion of that money for interest payments on existing loans.

when sky renegotiate their tv deal with the prem will they still pay top dollar considering they no longer have a monopoly on the rights to live prem football?

 

Sorry, but you suffer from a delusion if you think taking away the CL money from the big clubs would be enough to make teams like Red Star Belgrade competetive against the big leagues again... Tottenham or ManCity already have way more money than even the Champions of Portugal or Holland, despite Tottenham and ManCity not competing in the CL... Real Madrid got above 300 mio € revenue last season for the first time I think, from the CL they usually get less than 30 mio... Portos revenue on the other hand is less than 100 mio as far as I know, and Porto isn't even one of the real minnows. Taking away the CL money might make the disparity within a league smaller (Tottenham & Co would have a better chance to catch up with the big 4), but the disparity between the European leagues is mainly caused by the success of the big domestic leagues with broadcast rights and national and international marketing (sponsors & co) and the possibility to buy as many foreigners as they want, the few additional millions from the CL are almost irrelevant.

 

They have the money, that's the point, and taking away the CL places won't change that. They might spend slightly less than they do now, but I'm not really convinced they wouldn't... I remember that in the beginning of the current season, Horst Heldt, the manager of VFB Stuttgart, moaning about him competing for players with teams from the lower third of the EPL table, like Fulham, due to the massive financial success of the EPL... and VFB Stuttgart are German Champions. Probably he was exaggerating a bit, but still, the CL isn't the main reason why the big leagues are rich and buy all the stars.

 

How is then whenever I read one of these apocalyptic style articles on the premier league on football365 or in fourfourtwo they talk about the uneven distributiom of tv money

 

It's with regards to the distribution of money between the Premier League and the lower leagues.

 

Yah I know they say that too but they also mention how the Arsenals, and Man Utds get more tv money then the Fulhams and Wigans

 

Well they do, but it's not that much in the grand scheme of things. Half the TV money (so £600m in the present deal) is divided equally between all 20 clubs. A quarter (£300m) goes to each club on a merit basis, with the Champions receiving 20 times as much as the team relegated from 20th place. And the final quarter is allocated as logistical fees for those teams featured as the home side on televised games - which again of course favours the bigger teams, as these are shown on television more regularly. That said, if you boil it all down, the difference between first and last place is about £9m. Not peanuts, by any means, but certainly nothing significant enough to achieve a real levelling in the playing field if it were somehow done differently and more equitably.

 

For CL i really just hope that the money coulde get distributed more equaly. I mean as i understand it a team from a small market gets less CL money then a team from a big market even if the teams are producing the same results.

But i don`t think there is any way to make all european leagues generaly competative agianst each oter.

 

Well, EU rules being what they are, we'll see a salary cap in place before we see limited restrictions of 'foreigners'...and there won't be any salary cap this century.

But, I'll go back to my main point again.
It's not simply a case of eliminating the amount of money in the CL, as that will never, ever, get off the ground.The clubs themselves simply wont go for it.It's an unrealistic expectation.

What has to be done, to get a better distribution of wealth, is to...well, distribute the wealth better.Right now it's all lumped into one main competition, and as long as that remaind the case things will not get any better.