The Cavan Sullivan Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Maximum Optimal, Apr 10, 2022.

  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Mild disagree simply because I expect Cavan to go past Gio and reach Pulisic level importance. That said agree on the big what-if. The bulk of today's elite CM's are all tool players who de everything well but not exceptionally and that includes being taller. There are some CMs that break that mold by being shorter but are exceptionally quick and exceptionally good at starting plays. Cavan already has the quickness but will need to develop the latter ability to get there but it really looks like he does have that capacity.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yeah, I'm not talking really about importance, just really offensive style of play. In many ways, he's nothing like Gio -- Gio is smooth and silky, Cavan is more sharp, violent movement. Gio doesn't defend much at all; Cavan's more of a bulldog.

    But the thing they have in common is both are always hunting the play that breaks open the defense. And Gio and Cavan are the only guys in the pool with both elite passing vision and elite passing touch, IMO. Tillman probably comes next, and might be there.

    And that's why I'm excited. The last group of top players for us seem like they were farther ahead on things like dribbling than passing -- really great passers is a weakness in our pool, and Gio's collapse hasn't helped.
     
    twoolley repped this.
  3. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't think there's any question that Adu popped, in '03 and in '07, looked at the time like, if he could play with men athletically, he'd be a monster, but that was it. Looking back over the years I've watched ('03 to '25), I think it was Adu, and probably Pulisic. I want to say Altidore, but he wasn't huge in '05 and in '07 it was mostly just 1 game that stuck out, '03 Convey too, '15 nobody too much, '17 it was Sargent and Taitague before he wasn't released and got hurt too, but yeah, the most impressive I've seen are probably Adu, Pulisic, and Cavan.

    Taitague is the one for me that hurts, like John O'Brien, Renken, Gyau, Steve Snow etc, the guy who might have been truly great but got totally derailed by injuries. Taitague wasn't Pulisic level good, but I definitely get the sense, and in clips, that he was the best winger other than Pulisic and sort of Dempsey we'd produced in the previous 15 years of development and his body just would not let him play the game.

    I never saw Donovan in '99 as I wasn't even aware of the U17's and U20's until I think '01 or '02.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Taitague, now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I would not have even remembered him for this discussion. In terms of injuries, I think Paxton Pomykal still kind of kills me. I don't think he was going to be an utterly elite star, but he had a game that we've distinctly lacked in this entire Golden Generation -- an actual, well rounded, ball progression 8 who defended well.

    Someone like Sargent helps outline the differences, I think. Sargent had big production at the U17 and U20 World Cups. He played well, got scouted, got bought. But he didn't dominate to me in any way, and he never showed anything that I said "right now, that skill or element of their game would play against senior team opponents." When I say the word pop, I think it really just translates to a part of the player's game that is both valuable in nature but also so clearly so dominant and already developed to a level that you don't need to worry about translate.

    I think that's the difference with Pulisic or Cavan. With Christian, it was pretty clear his skill level at even 14 was going to be enough, and it was clear his quickness would translate even if size wise, he wasn't ready yet. He was dicing up Brazilians a year or two older -- there were 16 year olds who could not stay with him in any way, and it was a good Brazil team. It's such a rarity to see and such a valuable tool that combined with his ball skills ... only being a headcase could stop that.

    With Cavan, the physical isn't as clear and obviously the size is a small issue, but the passing is the passing and nothing is going to change that. Yes, the rate of incidence will go down against better defenses, but he's got better passing vision and touch than most of the senior team right this instant. Doesn't mean he's better on the whole, or even that he wouldn't be overwhelmed a bit by the jump up at first ... but like, yeah, dude is a better passer than nearly everyone on the team.

    I only vaguely remember Adu. I definitely wasn't as much a sicko back then in terms of following prospects and so I knew him but I wasn't watching critically. I imagine he's the cautionary tale here, though if he was actually older that really does change things. Neither Christian nor Cavan were doing this with the advantages of physical development -- they have physical tools but this isn't Cade Cowell simply being bigger and strong before everyone else.
     
  5. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  6. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    So, in other words, he avoids physical exertion at all costs, and likes to point and direct traffic, yes?



    That aside, if you've followed the game in this country, you've heard this before about the next hyped prospect. And for every Pulisic, there are probably lots a dozen Reynas or Mapps out there. Maybe this kid will break through, but the law of averages in this country is kinda-sorta against him. We'll see.
     
  7. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Save your time. Nothing there.
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Adu's issue was lack of patience and willingness to work harder in practice. It wasn't lack of talent.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  9. McKenniesWeah

    McKenniesWeah Member

    New England
    United States
    Feb 12, 2024
    I agree, Cavan’s top speed isn’t the same as Pulisic’s was at the same age, nor his speed with the ball. His agility, height, and strength are similar, while his passing and vision like you mentioned as well as his finishing are ahead of where Pulisic was at the same age.

    I also think mentally Cavan seems steadier than Pulisic. In any case, he’s so young to really project out compared to someone like Gozo. As long as he improves at the pace as these other two, then he would become our best player of all time. If his development stagnates at Philly vs. Pulisic’s growth at Dortmund, then we’ll get something less.
     
  10. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    He has plenty of pace for a professional player just not as a speedy winger. Im super unconcerned about his physical attributes.
     
  11. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    People tend to forget that only three players in the history of our national team have more assists than Claudio for the USA.

    Claudio was something of a wonderkid himself and probably also the best 16-year-old midfielder in the country at the time, even if the American soccer landscape back then can't compare to what it is today. But it still remains to be seen how far Cavan is going to take his game.

    Interestingly, Claudio began in a much more advanced attacking role before eventually getting moved deeper back. I have to wonder if that will one day be in store for Cavan (as it also happened for players like Pirlo, Verratti, etc.).
     
    butters59 repped this.
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don’t watch Sullivan play, do ya?
     
  13. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Meh. If he's at all like Gio Reyna, I hope he saves his cash. At the same time, we've heard about how "Adu has IT." Or "Gio Reyna has IT." Or "Cavan Sullivan has IT." The point is that most top prospects in this country don't go on to become world class.


    He is indeed a talented young man, but his future suffers from having suffered the inferior coaching and inferior developmental environment, compared to other places. I also don't think the oil club Citeh will give a rip about his future, they'll just go out and buy 30 more "Cavan Sullivans" from all across the world if he doesn't make it.
     
  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you haven't watched him play........
     
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  15. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I have seen him play. I simply no longer assume that "the next big thing" in this game in this country will become world class.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You know, if you have zero of value to say on a topic, you can just not post.

    It's very clear you've never seen him play.
     
    bballshawn repped this.
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Horseshit. Because he's a very high energy player who works his ass off, not someone who "avoids physical exertion."

    The comparison I made to Gio was in his passing vision and touch, which are exceptional, as well as in his overall offensive aggressiveness in terms of always trying to create an advantage.

    I don't know why people insist on lying. We get it; your whole schtick is old man shakes fist at cloud but why do you need to lie?
     
  18. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Yawn. Its easy to get your type wound up.

    Yes, we know this about Sullivan. And I was mostly mocking any comparison to Reyna, because Reyna is simply the latest top prospect to have failed to reach the hype of his youth.

    But you go ahead and get amped up about this.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    No, you weren't. You've never seen him, have no idea about his game. But you wanted to pontificate, so you made up some stuff, and now you are doing the 12 year old "I'm just a troll thing."
     
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  20. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Uh, yes I was. Your comparing this years model of "top prospect" to yesteryear abject failure of a prospect opens you up to ridicule. Comparing Sullivan to Messi is equally ridiculous.

    But go on getting upset about this, because it means I own your emotions.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    LOL.

    Nah, it just means that you're a liar.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. So, you don’t watch him. Then why are you commenting? Why would we care about an opinion that comes 100% from ignorance???? What did you get out of posting about something you don’t know about? Like, you saw other people enjoying a conversation and thought, nope, can’t have that! Let me post some crap to get the discussion off track.

    2. Why are you specifying “this country?” Dude, it’s true for every country. That’s why the word is top PROSPECT.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3198 superdave, Apr 11, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2026
    Ah, as I scrolled down I see I’m not the only person pissed off at a troll.

    He does this basically everywhere I see him post. He acts like he’s an expert on everything; the confidence behind his posts is astounding.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @bungadiri he just admitted he’s here to troll. Thread ban?
     
  25. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I've seen the player plat.

    Why are you so hurt by someone pointing out that it just might be irrational exuberance to expect him to be world class?

    I can agree to this. That said, again, why get so amped up?
     

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