The catenaccio double standard lives on

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Jawz10, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Jawz10

    Jawz10 Moderator

    Feb 27, 1999
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Two years running an English club practices a completely defensive mentality, and its lauded and raised to the rafters as a defensive masterclass. Arsenal never tried to win the ball back, they simply ran back into their own half and defended deep. They rarely even counterattacked, preferring to clear the ball straight back down the field to a waiting Villareal player. Gotta be able to call a spade a spade Arsenal fans, you're play yesterday was shocking. I challenge you to admit your club abandoned everything its supposedly known for in order to win that match. Shameful really.
     
  2. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    It worked though. I don't mind the tactics, I mind the hypocrisy of some (not all) Arsenal fans who insist they always play beautiful football.
    Its true of lots of other clubs too.
     
  3. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Arsenal didn't play catenaccio. Arsenal just played badly and got lucky. Or perhaps you think repeatedly giving the ball away was some kind of tactical masterplan.
     
  4. King-James

    King-James New Member

    May 27, 2005
    Ohh yeah, they always play that way :rolleyes: The team that always leads the EPL in goals scored.
     
  5. Toon³

    Toon³ Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Chelsea play in Redcurrant now???
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I don't agree Richard. Even when they made decent passes forward Henry was completely isolated and had no one to pass it to. They played a 4-5-0-0-0-1
     
  7. Thats a bit harsh considering it's one performance. What about the tie against Real Madrid or the the game against Juve at Highbury?


    I don't know who has lauded it as a 'defensive masterclass' because all i have seen is people admitting that Arsenal were poor. That includes fans and the media. I think you have gone over the top really. It's not like Arsenal have based the whole season on a defensive system is it?

    Arsenal's usual crisp passing wasn't there, they gave the ball away very cheaply, and usually in their own half. If they had played against a good side last night, they would have got beat playing like that. Fortunately for them they weren't and got away with it.
    I don't think they will be playing like that in the final.

    Finally, if Wenger did send his team out with defensive tactics, what is so shameful about that? Why should Arsenal have come out and gone all out, thus threatening their progress and who are you to call it shameful? They didn't need to do that. Should Wenger set up his tactics just to please you? Ultimately, Villareal were not good enough to overcome a poor Arsenal performance. There is nothing shamfeul about a team coming out and doing what needs to be done AND, your wrong, Arsenal didn't need to win the match.
     
  8. In fact, the most shameful part of the game was the the dive for the penalty.
     
  9. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    gunners were lucky to get through, but you cannot complain about their tactics. if they had gone out to entertain and attack they wouldnt be in paris may 17th. the way they played against real madrid, at home against Juve and villareal shows they are fantastic when they want/need to be.
     
  10. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I don't think anyone is complaining about their tactics per se - just the fact that some Gunners fans live in a dreamworld where Arsenal plays beautiful football all the time, and would never descend to such crass tactics.

    Like someone said, it's not necessarily a widespread opinion, nor is it one that's limited to Arsenal. But it does get frequent airing as a reason for superiority by some fans, which is kind of annoying - Arsenal aren't any more 'above' bunker football than any team, and that's not a bad thing. It's a valid and important tactic.
     
  11. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    well if someone claims gunners played beautiful football in that game, they need some serious help. i know what youre saying though. milan fans are just like that ;)
     
  12. Jawz10

    Jawz10 Moderator

    Feb 27, 1999
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I admit, Arsenal haven't played this way in all their games. But, they played this way yesterday. They have consistently changed their system in the knock out phases to suit European football. Which is fine and dandy, but for a team and a league who's fans are always patting themselves on the back for playing some of the best football in Europe, it's hypocrisy. Playing with one true striker is not forward thinking, its safety, no matter how you look at it. And its worked.
    Whats shameful is how fans will take a moral high ground and criticize this style of football when it is practiced by every team in the world at one time or another. Pundits are guilty as well. I read an article last week in the Guardian that labelled Milan's play last week at the San Siro vs Barca, as defensive! I'm tired of everyone turning a blind eye to the fact that the goal of football is to win, playing well is sometimes a byproduct and sometimes a precursor, but winning is all that matters. And until it is their team winning in this ugly manner they simply won't admit to it.
     
  13. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    exactly
     
  14. Jawz10

    Jawz10 Moderator

    Feb 27, 1999
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    AC Milan
    thank you for saying what i meant to say better than i could
     
  15. impalemeplz

    impalemeplz Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Sydney
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    i agree we played bunker football last night. we couldnt string any passes together to move out and it was plain for all to see.

    the thing that gets me is that everyone who lambasted arsene wenger for not having flexibility in style or tactics, in previous years, are now lambasting him for not sticking to his guns. :rolleyes:
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    From a U.S. fan's perspective, the problem with soccer is that the really big matches tend not to be representative of the sport. Usually, soccer matches are entertaining events, with the urge to attack just about balanced by the need to defend.

    Then in big CL & Euro & World Cup knockout matches, you get catenaccio style soccer, from pretty much everybody except for Brazil or Argentina. Yawn. This isn't why I watch the sport. If it were, I wouldn't watch it.

    But of course to many Americans, those are the only matches that they ever see. :eek:
     
  17. Its only Ray Parlour

    Aug 3, 2003
    London
    A man after my own heart. Finally some sense.
     
  18. Its only Ray Parlour

    Aug 3, 2003
    London
    We couldn't string 3 passes together for the entire night and it had nothing to do with 4-5-1 & everything to do with the fact that we played like utter utter garbage.

    And to the thread starter, if that's what you call cantenaccio well you are welcome to it.
     
  19. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Come down off that high horse son and recall the wonderful exhibition of freeflowing attacking play Milan played against United last year. Wait, that wasn't just one occasion that's the general vanilla way you play though. Arsenal for the most part, play wonderful, crisp, exciting attacking football. I'll excuse them for a ************ game that was the biggest of their club's history when it comes to Europe. I still want them to lose in the final, but I can't hate on them for one game.
     
  20. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I hope the English fans realise that Italians aren't the only people in history to sit back and defend. In recent times, the Gunners and Liverpool have jumped the bandwagon. Whenever anybody wants to criticise Italian teams for being boring and defensive, think of the Arse and the Pool before making a statement.
     
  21. leg_breaker

    leg_breaker Member

    Dec 23, 2005
    Great straw men in this thread. Most fans in England criticise Liverpool and Chelsea for their defensive football. And Arsenal usually do play attacking football, they play defensive rarely and only when required.

    I don't know any Arsenal fans who say they play attacking football in every single game, so this whole thread is based on a straw man.
     
  22. Jawz10

    Jawz10 Moderator

    Feb 27, 1999
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    AC Milan
    If you read the thread, you'll see I'm not assuming Arsenal play this way all the time. But, what does it matter if they play great soccer versus Wigan and then turn in that kind of a performance when they're up against it? Sure, they were shite on the night, but they also defended as deeply as possible and hoofed the ball whenever they got it instead of playing it out. Thats a gameplan, not a matter of performance.
     
  23. Neo¹

    Neo¹ Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    It was a boring game, at times it was like we were afraid to take a chance, in the end we almost paid for it. But lady luck helped us out. Winning is whats important, Id rather win 1-0 then lose 5-4.

    1 nil to the arsenal, as the old saying goes.
     

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