The Castrol FIFA World Cup Greatest Team 1966-2006

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by babaorum, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Do you guys know it ?

    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/

    Basically, the Castrol index measures past teams and players performances to calculate their attack and defense ratings. From these results, they identified the top performing players from the last 40 years in WC (1966-2006).

    Based on pure stats, here's their greatest 1966-2006 WC team :

    ------------------------------------- Leao (9.69 in 1978)--------------------------------------------------------------

    Thuram (9.78 in 1998)--Desailly (9.71 in 1998)--Santos (9.73 in 1995)--Brehme (9.74 in 1990)

    -----------------------------Beckenbauer (9.83 in 1966)-----------------------------------------------------------

    -------Lato (9.81 in 1974)--------Maradona (9.80 in 1986)-------Cruyff (9.82 in 1974)--------------

    ----------------------------Müller (9.86 in 1970-------Ronaldo (9.87 in 2002)--------------------------------


    So, what do you guys think of it ?


    Using the same criterias they also picked the MVP for each WC :

    Franz Beckenbauer 1966 9.83
    England ‘66 remains one of the most iconic World Cup Finals™ to date, with its mix of controversy and style perfectly in tune with the swinging sixties. While the hosts would famously beat the old enemy West Germany in a classic final, it is a 20-year-old Franz Beckenbauer, playing in a midfield role rather than the libero position he would eventually excel in, who shone brightest of all. Der Kaiser netted four goals, created nine goal-scoring chances and won an impressive 17 tackles in West Germany’s journey to the final.

    Not surprisingly, finalists England and West Germany, along with the other best side in the competition, Portugal, totally dominate the Top 10. Midfielders Helmut Haller and Martin Peters complete the top three while the great Eusebio, who netted a tournament-high nine goals, including four from the penalty spot, is joined by team-mates Jose Torres and Jose Augusto in the Castrol Index Top 10.

    Seven of the Top 15 players are from winners England with Bobby Moore in 4th place and hat-trick hero Geoff Hurst in 10th position. Not surprisingly, Gordon Banks is the top rated goalkeeper, in 14th position, after saving 88% of the shots on his goal
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1966


    Gerd Müller 1970 9.86
    Considered to be one of the great FIFA World Cup Finals™, Mexico ‘70 produced the most attacking football of any World Cup since 1966 with nearly three goals per game and a shot less than every three minutes. However, while it was the star-studded Brazil side that would ultimately lift the trophy, it was West Germany’s Gerd Muller who would produce the best individual performances. Indeed, as well as netting a Golden Shoe-winning 10 goals, the hitman also provided three assists. That involvement in 13 goals remains the best-ever figure in any single Finals since 1966.

    The Top Five of the Castrol Index is dominated by attackers, with Pele, Luigi Riva and Uwe Seeler joined by the attacking midfielder Jairzinho, only the second player to have scored in every match on the way to winning the FIFA World Cup™. The superb performances of Jairzinho, along with Muller, mean that Pele has to make do with the final place on the podium. Many remember Pele's misses including his header that Banks saved superbly, his near miss from the halfway line and his dummy before shooting wide. All contributed to a conversion rate of just 15%, the lowest of the Top Three.

    Despite playing their part in a classic final, Italy only manage to get two players in the Top 20, with Alessandro Mazzola, in 14th, joining striker Luigi Riva. Scorer of Brazil’s superb fourth goal in the final, Carlos Alberto takes 15th place while England’s Bobby Moore, famed for his iconic tackle on Pele, is in 23rd place.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1970


    Johan Cruyff 1974 9.82
    The 1974 edition of the FIFA World Cup™ saw the Netherlands’ brand of “total football” unleashed on the world. However, this great side would go on to lose the final to a well-drilled West German side. However, the Dutch can, at least, boast the player of the tournament, with Johan Cruyff lighting up Germany with his innovative skills. The attacker scored three goals and provided three assists while his total of 29 chances created in open play was a tournament-high, as was his haul of 55 dribbles.

    The Dutch influence is highlighted by Cruyff’s four team-mates who join him in the Castrol Index Top Ten. However, the two main men behind the hosts’ success also rank highly, with Gerd Muller and Franz Beckenbaur taking fourth and fifth place. Interestingly, Poland, who finished third, boast the second and third-best players, courtesy of Golden Shoe winner Grzegorz Lato, who netted seven goals and Kazimierz Deyna, who scored three from midfield.

    Brazil’s poor defence of the trophy is highlighted by the lack of Samba stars high up in the Castrol Index, with defender Luis Pereira the highest-ranked in 16th. Sepp Maier, the German ?keeper, ranks at 22, some way behind the tournaments’ top glovesman, Sweden’s Ronnie Hellstrom who is 6th.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1974

    Mario Kempes 1978 9.84
    Argentina’s hosting of the 1978 FIFA World Cup Finals™ produced both controversy and drama, but the hosts’ 3-1 final win over the Netherlands in Buenos Aires against a backdrop of blue and white ticker-tape remains an iconic image to this day. Central to that victory and Argentina’s success overall was Mario Kempes. The striker netted a Golden Shoe-winning six goals, although none came before the second round. He also provided two additional assists and embarked on a competition-high 68 dribbles.

    Along with Kempes, two goalkeepers, Brazil’s Leao and Argentina’s Fillol make up the Castrol Index Top Three, with Leao’s 90% saves rate the best in the competition. Beaten finalists the Netherland boast just one Top 10 entrant, Willy van der Kerkhof, while four defenders but no midfielders make the Top 10.

    Another goalkeeper, Peru’s Ramon Quiroga ranks in 30th place, however, the eccentric shot-stopper enjoyed a superb tournament, making 50 saves overall, more than any other ‘keeper in a Finals competition between 1966 and 2006. 11 places above Quiroga is Dutch striker Rob Rensenbrink, who bagged five goals and almost won the final for the Dutch, hitting the post in the dying minutes of normal time.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1978


    Paolo Rossi 1982 9.69
    This FIFA World Cup™ is fondly remembered for the quality of the football on show, a view borne out by the 84% passing accuracy registered in Spain, the highest in any Finals tournament between ’66 and ’06. Striker Paolo Rossi would inspire Italy to victory, netting his Golden Shoe-winning six goals from just seven shots on target and posting a 46% goals to shots conversion rate overall. The consummate fox-in-the-box netted just one of his goals and mustered just one of his 13 shots from outside the area.

    Zico is the only member of Brazil’s entertaining yet ultimately unsuccessful side to make the Castrol Index Top 10, coming in second place. However, creative midfielders Pierre Littbarski, of West Germany, and France’s Alain Giresse also make it into the top five. The more prosaic Poland, who finished 3rd, boast two entries with striker Zbigniew Boniek and goalkeeper Jozef Mlynarczyk.

    Other than Boniek and top-scorer Rossi, no other strikers make the Top 20, with Northern Ireland’s Gerry Armstrong the next highest placed forward. Tough-tackling midfielder Marco Tardelli, he of the famous goal celebration in the final, comes in 15th position, although Azzuri defenders Scirea, Cabrini and Collovati do appear above him
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1982


    Diego Maradona 1986 9.80
    Mexico became the first country to host the FIFA World Cup™ twice with a tournament which produced a high level of drama, mainly due to the high frequency of penalty shoot-outs. However, Diego Maradona virtually won the trophy for Argentina by himself. He scored or assisted 10 of Argentina’s 14 goals during the finals. In fact, he attempted or created 52% of all Argentina’s shots during the tournament and embarked on 90 dribbles, more than three times as many as any other player. He was also fouled 53 times, winning almost twice as many free kicks as any other player.

    Despite Maradona’s individual brilliance, four of his team-mates also find themselves in the Castrol Index Top 10. England’s Gary Lineker earns himself a third-place finish courtesy of a Golden Shoe-winning six goal haul while hosts Mexico, after an impressive run to the last eight, boast two entries.

    Spain’s Emilio Butragueno ranks 21st in the Castrol Index, and thanks to his one-man demolition of Denmark, where he bagged four goals, “The Vulture” earned himself a place in the record books. Indeed, only six other players have ever achieved this feat. Finalists West Germany have only one player in the top 20, courtesy of midfielder Lothar Matthäus, who comes in in 19th position.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1986

    Andreas Brehme 1990 9.74
    In a FIFA World Cup (TM) with the lowest goals per game average, the most penalties taken (including shoot outs) and the highest fouls per game rate, it was Andreas Brehme’s spot-kick in a predictably tense final which won the tournament for an efficient West German side and highlighted the defender’s importance to his team. An attacking left back, Brehme created a competition-high 23 goal-scoring chances, attempted the most crosses and scored three goals while he also showed off his defensive strengths with a superb 94% tackle success rate.

    Only one forward makes it into the Castrol Index Top 10, Czechoslovakia’s Tomas Skuhravy. He scored one goal less than Golden Shoe-winner Toto’ Schillaci, who scored six goals, but recorded a superior shooting accuracy rate, to take 10th place in the Castrol Index. Surprisingly, Schillaci is in 19th place, due in part to his 47% shooting accuracy rate, below the average posted by strikers in the competition.

    Paul Gascoigne, whose skills and tears were intrinsic parts of the Italia ’90 experience, comes in in 23rd place, despite attempting the most dribbles and creating 12 chances, including the decisive assists in England’s 1-0 wins over Egypt and Belgium. Central to his comparatively low position in the Castrol Index was his failure to get on the scoresheet himself along with his 12 fouls and two bookings accrued over the course of the tournament. Everyone will remember Roger Milla’s performances in 1990 but it’s his team mate Omam-Biyik who is the highest ranked Cameroon player in 11th position
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1990

    Romario 1994 9.79
    Brazil’s 1994 FIFA World Cup™ winning team is often viewed as the least exciting in the nation’s footballing history. The rather prosaic Brazilians became the first side to clinch the trophy on penalties after 120 goalless minutes in the final in what was their fifth clean sheet in the tournament. However, in gifted attacker Romario, Brazil had a player touched by Samba magic, and the striker delivered for his country, scoring five goals, attempting the most shots, 33 and hitting the target with 64% of them.

    Romario’s team-mates take up six of the Castrol Index Top 10 places, with the central defensive duo of Marcio Santos and Aldair completing the podium and current Brazil manager Carlos Dunga taking 5th place. Losing-finalists Italy boast two players, courtesy of Milan defenders Alessandro Costacurta and the legendary Paulo Maldini

    While Maradona disappointed, three other superstars lit up the competition. Roberto Baggio (15th) almost single-handedly led Italy to the final before ironically missing the decisive spot-kick himself while two other gifted attackers also excelled. Georghe Hagi (36th) netted three and assisted three for Romania while Bulgaria’s Hristo Stoichkov (43rd) finished as joint top-scorer with six goals. Baggio’s comparatively low ranking, in particular, is due partly to his failure to provide a single assist in the tournament along with his significantly below-average 46% dribble success rate.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1994

    Lilian Thuram 1998 9.78
    World Cup fever gripped France in 1998, with the hosts, inspired by Zinedine Zidane, going all the way to lift the trophy. However, it was another star of Les Bleus’ triumph, defender Lilian Thuram, who comes out on top in the Castrol Index. The full-back almost single-handedly kept France in the competition, after Les Bleus went a goal down to Croatia in the quarter-finals. He netted two second-half goals in that game to win it for the hosts while overall in the competition, he created seven goal-scoring chances and won 19 of his 25 tackles.

    The victorious French dominate the upper echelons of the Castrol Index, taking the top six spots, with the back four, who shipped (a record setting) two goals in the competition, taking the top four places. Zidane takes fifth while players from beaten finalists Brazil and semi-finalists Croatia and the Netherlands make up the Top 10.

    Brazilian superstar Ronaldo, who made a subdued appearance in the final against France, is the highest-placed striker, coming in 11th place, while France’s highest ranked forward, Youri Djorkaeff, comes in way back in 50th place. Croatia’s Davor Suker may have ended the tournament as the top scorer with six goals, but he needed 29 shots to net those goals while his 38% shooting accuracy rate is well below the competition average, which explains his somewhat lowly 24th position in the Castrol Index.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=1998

    Ronaldo 2002 9.87
    The first FIFA World Cup™ Finals to be held in Asia produced a number of surprise results, with the big guns of Argentina, France and Italy silenced as underdogs South Korea, Senegal, Turkey and the USA all made their mark. However, ultimately it would be one of the old guard, Brazil, who would lift the trophy. Central to Brazil’s record fifth Finals success was Ronaldo. The striker bagged a Golden Shoe-winning eight goals including both in the final against Germany while he also mustered a competition-high 28 shots and set up 13 goal-scoring chances. Ronaldo has four team-mates in the Castrol Index Top 10 including Roberto Carlos and Rivaldo.

    South Korean goalkeeper Lee Woon Jae, who saved almost 80% of the shots on his goal, is the only non-finalist to make the Top 10 while German skipper Michael Ballack, who missed the final due to suspension, takes the runners-up spot courtesy of his three goals and competition-high four assists.

    There are only three strikers in the Top 25, with Italy’s Christian Vieri, in 19th, joining Ronaldo and Miroslav Klose, who comes in in 8th place after netting five goals. Turkey ?keeper Rustu Recber and Senegalese midfielder Papa Bouba Diop both make the Top 20 after inspiring their unfancied sides to a semi-final and quarter-final, respectively.
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=2002

    Gianluigi Buffon 2006 9.61
    In the 2006 World Cup Finals™, hosts Germany eschewed their trademark dour efficiency for a free-flowing style of play. However, ultimately it would be the teamwork and defensive parsimony of Italy that would win out, with goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon shining between the posts. The experienced net-minder shipped just two goals, an own-goal and a penalty, while overall he saved a superb 93% of the shots on his goal, well above the 83% average for FIFA World Cup™ winning goalkeepers.

    Losing-finalists France take four of the top five places, with the defensively-minded Lilian Thuram, William Gallas and Patrick Vieira joined by striker Thierry Henry. Along with Henry, Golden-Shoe winner Miroslav Klose of Germany is the only other striker in the Castrol Index Top 10, and the only other forward in the top 26 for that matter, courtesy of his five-goal haul.

    Defenders totally dominate the rankings, taking 14 of the Top 25 positions, with defensive stalwarts such as the Italian central defensive duo of Fabio Cannavaro and Marco Materazzi and the entire German and French back fours all featuring high up in the rankings. French superstar Zinedine Zidane, whose tournament was overshadowed by an infamous moment of madness in the final, comes in in 24th place. Despite winning the Golden Ball, mainly for his performances in the knockout stages, he was
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legen....php?year=2006
     
    La-Máquina and Tom Stevens repped this.
  2. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Awesome. I once wanted started to do something similar, but got bored after two games. :p
    Very interesting and the results seem reasonable.


    Leao suprises me though. (tbh I've never seen the '78 WC)
    Gerson not making the 1970 squad.
    Baresi missing it in 1994.
    No Italians in 1970. Expected at least Facchetti.
    Kahn not making the 2002 squad. (I'm sure he would be #1 without the finals ... 0.1 behind Lee Woon Jae)

    Rest wouldn't differ that much from my allstar-team iirc.
     
  3. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yes I agree. The results are more or less what I could expect using such criterias. There are indeed some surprises. In addition to those you mentioned, there is Charlton missing in 1966 or the fact of picking Santos in their all-time team ahead of legends like Moore, Passarella, Scirea or Baresi.

    All in all, I think these ratings based on stats are very interesting because they put into perspective the way we usually rank players, ie rather subjectively.

    For example, it's funny to notice that Ronaldo was ranked 11th in WC98 and yet he won the MVP award. Zidane was ranked even lower (24th !) in WC2006 and he won it also.

    It's also funny to notice that according to their criterias Cannavaro was not the best defender in WC06 since Thuram and Gallas have better ratings... Well some of us already suspected that but I'm glad that stats show it in a more objective way. It's even funnier if you consider that he won his Golden Ball award mainly because of his WC performances...
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Their list is not so unreasonable but it's always questionable - depending on what "Criteria" they use or we perceive!

    For Castrol (purely stats) so they put (a bit) too much "weigh" on the players who:
    1- Won the WC
    2- Performance (important order) of final, semi ... down to group.


    So, for example in 98, Ronaldo was minus on both points - hence (unfairly) he was rated a bit too low, and surprisingly even lower than Rivaldo and Sampaio (who of course played better in the final). In the other hand, Zidane was rated higher than any Brazilians include Ronaldo (goldenball winner) for his "wc winning" plus "2goals final game".

    But atleast, the same rule has given Ronaldo rating much higher in 2002: won WC, scored in final, semi ... Hence he got the "highest rating" even higher than Muller, Maradona and Pele - Why?
    Again, based on "their STATS": Ronaldo had highest "shooting rate" (>50% on target) and had a good number of "create scoring chances" (13). Unfortunately, Edilson, Kleberson, Rivaldo, Cafu ... all screwed up those chances!

    If, they would include WC58, with same "rule stats" applied, I would guess Pele getting as the "best ever" with at least 9.0 rate

    ============================================
    Believe it or not I did not rate Canavaro that high ... in 2006. Here I agree with Castrol Buffon would supposingly the best Italian in WC06.

    Canavaro was so "lucky" to win the WPOY and Ballon Dor JUST BECAUSE he was the captain of a WC winning team, which 11 players played really well and it's hard to find an "outstanding performance" between: Buffon, Pirlo, Totti, Canavaro and even Zambrotta and Gatusso ...
     
  5. Cirdan

    Cirdan Member

    Sep 12, 2007
    Jena (Germany)
    What I find interesting is that they apparently don't rate the Brazil 1970 team particularly high... I mean, it's among the highest rated nts ever, and in particular Brazilians seem to laud that team way more than more than their recent World Champions, yet Carlos Alberto and Tostao aren't even in the best-of-1970 team, and the only 1970 players in Brazils all time team are Pele and the keeper... compared to 4 players from the 1994 team and 3 from '02, and Ronaldo, Romario and Santos (!) with way higher ratings than Pele, at that...

    [edit] looking more closely, they made an error, comparing with the World Cup 1970 and 1982 squads, the Jairzinho in the best-Brazil team has to be the 1970 Jairzinho, not '82. Still, the Brazil '70 team doesn't appear to be as spectacular to Castrol as to a lot of pundits.
     
  6. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I'm not sure about that. It's only that the greatest players tend to perform better in the latter stages so that it's natural they have better stats. Castrol doesn't need too "weigh" them.
    Otherwise you would find more Brazilians players in the all star 1970 team as Cirdan pointed out. You would also most likely not see Leao in 1978, Omam Biyik and Thomas Skuhravy in 1990. You would also probably have more Italians in the WC06 team.
     
  7. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    is Alan Shearer on crack? Bergkamp in his all time best 11 and no Maradona

    Koeman put Romario in midfield:confused: hoping the program got it wrong and he should be in the fowards
     
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    hmmm, I'm not sure shots on target is always the best guide as a shot straight at the goalkeeper is considered better than one which misses the post by millimetres leaving the goalie with no chance. A goals to shots ratio might be a better measure?

    With chances created, using pure statistics doesn't value how good the piece of play to create the chance was or how good a chance of a goal it really gave the team-mate.

    Definately an interesting project though and they must have spent a lot of time on it to do it properly. Things like Ronaldinho having a higher rating in the 2006 WC than the 2002 WC don't really tally with how I saw it at the time though.
     
  9. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Koeman, Butragueño, Collina and Hitzfeld all fail due to their midfield composition. So does Shearer to an extent as his midfield would be lopsided.
     
  10. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    castrol, always interesting, but didn't this year ibrahimovic rate out much higher than xavi for instance? they have some oddities, nothing more than a nice discussion piece.
     
  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I agree that it's a bit vague ... but thisis noted from Castrol:

    The Castrol Index uses the same expertise that Castrol applies to the development of its oils using objective analysis and highly advanced technology to measure every pass, tackle and move on the field and assess whether it has a positive or negative impact on a team's ability to score or concede a goal.

    I really curious what model (of stats) they use ...
     
  12. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Very interesting links.

    I wonder if their team of statisticians kept record of every player (even the lesser known ones) or just of a few legendary players?

    If they kept records of all players it would be interesting to see the best results for various categories (most shots on target, most tackles won etc.).
     
  13. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    I am more curious on who implements the model
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    MORE INTERESTING ...

    FIFA bought into this Castrol Stats and Modeling. Check here, they merely mentioned 3 names as the ones who CHANGED the games and "set the standard" at WC:

    1- Ronaldo (forward) for #shots and accuracy plus creating chances for team mates. For example WC2002 was among the most attacking with average 11.4% conversion rate (shoot to score) and Ronaldo had >50% of conversion rate (a cut above the rest)

    2- Maradona (midfielder): for his # dribbling run, successful passes and decisive goals. For example, Maradona made 90 dribble runs in WC86, and involved up 71% of Argentina goals scored. - A cut above the rest

    3-Buffon (GK) : allowed 2goals (1own + 1 PK) and #saving (93% block) - a cut above the rest.

    See details ...

    http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1223190/index.html?cid=rssfeedatt=
     
  15. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    the fifa mention maradonas very impressive 71% contribution of his teams goals wc 1986...gerd müller 1970 directly has contributed for 77% of his teams goals ..this good possible is the highest persentage of players in this timespan 1966-2006 where have played the maximum of wc games in a tournament ..müller olso directly (goal or assist)contributed for 5 gamewinning goals out of 6 games he has played 1970..good possible a record too in this timespan between 1966 and 2006..
     
  16. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    That's why both Ronaldo (9.87) and Muller (9.86) have gotten highest rating points - higher than Maradona 86 and Pele 70
     
  17. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    this wasnt the point ....the fifa mention müllers tournament high 4 goals scored with headers..example..but dont mention müllers 77% contribution of his teams goals...the best rate between 1966-2006 of all players....the fifa mention maradonas 71% rate for some good reason...fifa pointing out müllers 4 headergoals sounds for me rather peanuts against his unmentioned impressive 77% contribution rate of his teams goals 1970.....

    more intresting..

    counting the players 2 best wc rating points (combinated)

    here are the 3 best..

    1. müller combinated 978 points(1970-986......1974-970)
    2. beckenbauer combinated 977 points(1966-983......1974-971)
    3. turam combinated 968 points(1998-978......2006-958)

    example ..ronaldo with his high 987 point rate wc 2002 but lesser impresive 920 point rate wc 1998 is way behind (combinated 953 points)...same with maradona,rossi and many others..
     
  18. Simmer

    Simmer Member

    Feyenoord
    Netherlands
    Oct 23, 2009
    Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Why only 4-4-2 formations?
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Castrol picked 3 typical players: forward (Ronaldo), midfielder/playmaker (Maradona) and GK (Buffon) and tried to demonstrate their rating back up.

    Muller was a bit underated at WC70 for Germany not in final - just like Eusebio at WC66!
     
  20. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    One thing not factored is competition faced.

    Example:
    Ronaldo (9.87) in 02 has a better raiting than Pele (9.56) in 70

    Ronaldo played against Costa Rica, China, 2x Turkey, Germany, England and Belgium.

    Quality of teams faced in an alltime context:
    Good: Germany, England
    Decent: Turkey
    Bad: Belgium
    Abysmal: Costa Rica, China

    Alltimer D/GK faced:
    Kahn (HM to: Campbell and Ferdinand)


    Pele played against Italy, Uruguay, Peru, England, Czechoslovakia and Romania.

    Quality of teams faced in an alltime context:
    Legendary: Italy, England
    Great: Uruguay
    Good: Peru
    I'm pretty sure that Romania and Czechoslovakia were as good/better than the Turkey 02.

    Alltimer D/GK faced:
    Zoff, Burgnich, Facchetti, Banks, Moore, Mazurkiewicz and Chumpitaz



    Castrol provides very useful stats but you have to be able to read them correctly.
     
  21. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
  22. Sempre

    Sempre ****************** Member+

    Mar 4, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    At least for defenders, this brings up a flaw in Castrol's rating system IMO.
    I feel there is some naivete around this issue--when people see someone like Gabriel Heinze flinging himself around, throwing himself into tackles left and right, they think they are watching a great defensive performance.

    But the best defenders often make few tackles--I remember reading somewhere that in his later years Paolo Maldini averaged only one tackle every two games. He would read an attack so well that he would walk out of defense, cut off a pass, then calmly play it to one of his teammates.

    By way of example, look at Italy's second goal versus Germany in the WC 2006 semi-final. In the build-up, Cannavaro doesn't tackle at all--he comes out of defense, pips the ball from a German player, passes to Totti, who releases Gilardino who lays off for Del Piero's goal.

    That's great defending, but it doesn't seem Castrol measures that. They would call it better defending if Cannavaro was late to read that play and had to throw himself into a tackle to cut it off.
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    First, no one would ever say Ronaldo (2002) was better than Pele (1970) per se. except the fact he scored more with exceptional effeciency (the best thru out WC history). Castrol stats are just another good "measures" to help us to evaluate things in tangible world - that's all. Of course there is "intangible value" that STATS can not quantify- for example, Dunga, Makelele+Vieira and Xabi+Xavi were "unsung hero" for Romario, Zidane or Villa/Torres to take the crowns in WC94, Euro2000, and Euro2008/WC2006

    Now, Strictly by NAMES and TRADITIONs, you sound right. However if you dig in each tournament in time and form, your analysis is not correct. In that year, big teams (favourites) like Argfentina and France were knocjed out early and that was NOT Ronaldo's fault. Just like this WC 2010, Uruguay and Paraguay could have upset big teams like Spain/Germany/Holland ... and according to you, the players who defeat them took "LESS CREDITS"?

    ==========================================
    Back to Pele70 and Ronaldo02,

    Pele took the limelight out of the "BEST EVER TEAM" in history (with greatest squad in Rivelino. Jairzinho. Tostao. Gerson, Carlos Alberto, Clodoaldo ...

    Brazil2002 were just a good "enough" team compared to that "greatest team ever". That's another food for thought! As I could imagine, howmany goals should Ronaldo score IF he 'd play for such team (great assisters) plus rolling back the year to 1970 where playing style more open? I think he could score more than 10goals if not break/equal Juste Fonataine 13goals!
     
  24. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    To be perfectly honestly the whole ranking is dire.

    I mean according to the final ranking Diego Forlan was the 87th best player of the tournament.

    Apparently Glen Johnson was better than Oezil.

    Something is badly wrong within the formula.
     
  25. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I agree regarding the ranking being naive when rating defenders especially when we consider sides who keep a lot of possession.
    For e.g. In the 2010 WC, Castrol seems to be ranking Spain's 4 defenders as the top 4 rated players of the tournament. However, that is quite possibly not really the case, since although they have kept 4 consecutive clean sheets and a total of 5 in the tournament, it is more down to their midfield keeping >60% posession and stifling the chances of the opposition to score and to Casillas's heroics in the final and the quarter-final.
     

Share This Page