The Case For Messi and C. Ronaldo as Best Ever

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Lafleur, Feb 5, 2015.

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  1. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #8276 leadleader, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    I created the video above. And I can tell you -- I only included very very few of Baggio's plays. Only the "quality" ones. And by "quality" I mean the ones that look "similar to modern camera angles." Not necessarily the best plays of Baggio (most of which I didn't even included in the video).

    Many of Baggio's best skills I didn't included in the video, because many of said skills are "mediocre camera angles" where you can see just about enough to comprehend that what Baggio did was great, but where you can't properly appreciate the skill from "close to the action." Plus: no replays.

    With more modern post-1995 players, like Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho, etc. I obtain the same result with just a few games. With Baggio, I need to watch triple the games, and then cherry pick the footage that isn't made-up of "mediocre camera angles."

    As an example, Baggio pulled off an amazing nutmeg vs Panathinaikos 1992-93 (at home), but the nutmeg was captured from too far away to adequately appreciate. No replay to be shown. There are many skills like that: amazing skills, but badly captured by the camera... to the point that it's not even worth including into a youtube video.
     
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  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You made that video Great work!! what's your youtube channel name
     
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You know I always wondered despite nearly every fan agreeing that Maradona and fenomeno had superior technique to Baggio how comes they were not able to score any where near the amount of solo goals in serie A that he could . I mean this guy even with all his injuries probably has as many solo goals in serie A as Messi has in la liga beating 1,2,3, even 4 players he was the true phenomenon of the 90s definitely a top 3 player ever in serie A history for me with Diego and platini
     
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  4. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Well, right now there's not much to see if I'm honest. Most of the videos on my channel are too long and slow, looking back on them. But I'm currently working on re-making all of them. I'm simultaneously working on a lot of videos; a new Baggio (prime Baggio) video, Romario 1993-94, Figo 1998-99, Rivaldo 1998-99, Totti 2002-03, Zidane 2001-02, Nedved 2003-04, Pirlo 2012-13, Messi 2013-14, and a lot more names. I'll let you know when I finish some of them.

    If you liked Baggio's video, the three videos below are somewhat similar,





     
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  5. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Strongly agree. Baggio imo is very underrated as a technician. His mobility was somewhat limited. Baggio didn't have the most fluid mobility, certainly not as "fluid" as players like Laudrup or Zidane. Perhaps Baggio getting his knee almost entirely reconstructed before he was 20 years old, plays a big factor as to why Baggio isn't the most "mobile" technician (despite being smaller than guys like Zidane, Laudrup, or Figo). But Baggio's dribbling, and his body feints, are stupidly good. Similar to a slower version of Messi imo.
     
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  6. Puskas 1988

    Puskas 1988 Member

    Dec 9, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!

    Bada, if you didn't exist somebody would have to invent you. In all possible multiverses.
     
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  7. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Be careful, boner boy... Barcelona might ruin the action.... HAHAHA

    I'll be in the room next door with your mom.
     
  8. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #8283 User101, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016

    Raw stats can only attest to a player's quality or to any case you're trying to make until a certain point.

    Stats can hardly measure the kind of opponent they played against, the kind of championship, the team-mates they have alongside them, how your team performs, under what circumstances the stats were achieved, the period of time that's being taken into account (what decade)... dozens of other factors that sheer numbers fail to compare properly and fairly.

    Stats are only supportive of one's point. They are most definitely not the whole point.

    If stats were all that matters, then, as I said, Maradona would not be regarded as one of the greatest players ever (because the stats will not show you that Maradona made a relatively small team like Napoli turn into one of the best teams in Europe in the 80's).

    You want to go solely by stats? Then you need to name Miroslav Klose as one of the greatest strikers ever, since he is the all-time WC scorer. I don't see anybody doing that (and with reason...).

    If stats were all that mattered, C. Ronaldo would have won the balon D'or this year, since he had better numbers than Messi.

    So clearly stats do not prove everything and do not tell the whole story. If they were, there would be no need for any football-related discussion in this forum, on the TV, no need even for the Balond D'or voting.

    Just get the numbers, throw them in, and be done with it....

    Again: Stats are only supportive of one's point. Not the whole point. You cannot base a whole analysis on that... that would be just inaccurate, plain and simple.

    To dismiss the element of subjectivity in football and bring it all down to numbers can be completely misleading.

    Oh, so now you decide that stats don't tell the whole story then. There is subjectivity involved after all.

    Thanks for just contradicting yourself!

    By, the way Messi is probably the superior player at club level (although I could just as easily say Messi always had the whole team and a whole system playing for him, something Ronaldo never had - again, subjectiveness playing a huge part). On the other hand, at NT level, Ronaldo's career is BY FAR superior to Messi's. It's not even debatable.

    And if we're talking about peak periods (not the whole career - which is more about being consistent and keeping up the high level for longer), then Ronaldo's peak most certainly can match Messi's peak.
     
  9. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Basing yourself on subjectivity as well?

    Oh, I thought you didn't do that. You accused me of basing myself on personal opinion (even though heavily based on other football analysts' and fans' opinions), just as you are doing right now (and in fact have been doing all along)...

    So now I want to see the stats that show that nearly every football fan agrees with what you're saying. I actually agree with what you're saying (which is common sense) - but I want to see the stats.

    Every time you and and Mr. @Bada Bing post something here, I'll be wanting to see the stats. Otherwise your points will be "trivial" and automatically invalid.

    After all, that's what you based your criticism towards me being negative to C. Ronaldo, right?

    So now prove you're not just a hypocrite and show me the numbers. After all, they tell the whole story, isn't it? No need for football-related discussions, no need even for common sense... just throw in the stats.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    To a large extent you are right Pipiolo, as many things were built in the formative years when he was small (and being small was said to be a developmental aid, instead of leaning too much on speed advantages), but two things it unquestionably (among more contested things) does is recovery and also the flexibility of the skeleton structure (cartilage). It does enhance the aspects you mention a bit, at least in so far that it allows to train and practice for longer and better. Especially in a sport where time is precious and the length of sessions from a young age limited by injury threats (= difference with other sports where sessions and hours per day are longer). It also improves the metabolism and immune system, as well as rapid fat loss (keeping low fat percentage at low workout regime).
    http://www.daserste.de/information/...sportschlau/sportschlau-lionel-mesie-100.html

    Talking about that, today there was in the newspaper over here an article about the vastly declined turnover in the tennis top 50 (a sport with a clearly defined ranking for players) and that for the first time ever the average age of the top 10 players is over 30. What is going on? Obviously there are four exceptionally gifted players at the top, who were young very good. But the very same statistical trend is also visible at the top 50 and top 100. Well, key factors are the money distribution (the jump from juniors to seniors has become more expensive) and then especially at the very top end. The very top players have an entourage consisting of at least two coaches, a manager, a physiotherapist, a condition trainer, or - in case of Roger Federer - nannies to take care of the twins.

    Another key factor are medical advances, and that youngsters find it hard to recover in the modern day 'power' era. It takes time to build up towards the necessary fitness level - time that is not always there. Furthermore, it is for fans and others interesting to see Nadal make strong comebacks, and nowadays the benefits outweigh the costs in that respect. Then there are also a few minor things as that the ranking/seeding has become more protective for the top players (thus also protecting their income level), which in turn keeps them at the top for longer instead of falling down.

    "30 years old seize power in top tennis - road to the top has become expensive for the youth"
    http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/dertiger-grijpt-macht-in-toptennis~a4226242/
    (paywall)

    Average age ATP tennis players:
    [​IMG]


    It doesn't take too much to see a few parallels, although less strong, with football or other (ball oriented) sports.
     
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  11. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #8286 Bada Bing, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    There's zero concrete arguments in your post, it's just a trivial opinion, hocus pocus opinion based on your imagination.

    As an example:

    On case of Klose, here's statistics, not raw like you drone about, but relative and logical statistics to relate players.


    Messi @28

    WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
    CA15 runner-up, MVP
    CA07 runner-up, Best Young Player
    OL08 Gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
    WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball

    Pele
    WC70 champion, Golden Ball
    WC58 champion, Silver Ball
    CA59-1 runner-up, MVP

    Zidane
    WC06 runner-up, Golden Ball
    WC98 champion, -
    EU00 champion, Best Player

    Maradona
    WC86 champion, Golden Ball
    WC90 runner-up, Bronze Ball
    WC79u20 champion, Golden Ball

    Cruyff
    WC74 runner-up, Golden Ball


    World Cup Career


    Performance Index (importance in success, win %*importance %, max 1.00)

    0.65 Messi
    0.62 G.Müller
    0.60 Schillaci
    0.59 Eusebio
    0.56 Villa
    0.55 Romario
    0.53 Robben
    0.52 Cruyff
    0.51 Pele
    0.46 Baggio
    0.46 Rossi
    0.45 Sneijder
    0.45 T.Müller
    0.43 Ronaldo
    0.43 Forlan
    0.40 Batistuta
    0.40 Suker
    0.40 Maradona
    0.37 Zico
    0.37 Jairzinho
    0.36 Lato
    0.35 Zidane
    0.32 Klose
    0.31 Deyna
    0.29 Ardiles
    0.28 Stoichkov
    0.27 P.Falcao
    0.25 Kempes
    0.25 Dirceu
    0.17 C.Ronaldo
    0.17 Charlton

    Longevity Index (longevity of importance in success, Performance Index * (matches/ Klose matches), max 1.00)

    0.41 Messi
    0.35 Maradona
    0.34 Ronaldo
    0.34 G.Müller
    0.33 Robben
    0.32 Sneijder
    0.32 Klose
    0.31 Baggio
    0.30 Lato
    0.30 Pele
    0.28 Villa
    0.27 Rossi
    0.24 Jairzinho
    0.24 T.Müller
    0.22 Zico
    0.20 Batistuta
    0.19 Kempes
    0.18 Romario
    0.18 Forlan
    0.18 Zidane
    0.18 Schillaci
    0.17 Deyna
    0.15 Cruyff
    0.15 Eusebio
    0.13 Ardiles
    0.13 Suker
    0.13 Dirceu
    0.12 Stoichkov
    0.10 Charlton
    0.09 C.Ronaldo
    0.08 P.Falcao

    Matches (Won - Drawn - Lost)

    Pele 14 (12 - 1 - 1) = 86% win
    P.Falcao 7 (6 - 0 - 1) = 86% win
    Schillaci 7 (6 - 0 - 1) = 86% win
    T.Müller 13 (11 - 1 - 1) = 85% win
    G.Müller 13 (11 - 0 - 2) = 85% win
    Ronaldo 19 (16 - 0 - 3) = 84% win
    Eusebio 6 (5 - 0 - 1) = 83% win
    Messi 15 (12 - 1 - 2) = 80% win
    Robben 15 (12 - 0 - 3) = 80% win
    Romario 8 (6 - 2 - 0) = 75% win
    Cruyff 7 (5 - 1 - 1) = 71% win
    Sneijder 17 (12 - 2 - 3) = 71% win
    Deyna 13 (9 - 1 - 3) = 69% win
    Klose 24 (16 - 6 - 3) = 67% win
    Maradona 21 (14 - 2 - 5) = 67% win
    Zidane 12 (8 - 3 - 1) = 67% win
    Villa 12 (8 - 1 - 3) = 67% win
    Zico 14 (9 - 3 - 2) = 64% win
    Jairzinho 16 (10 - 2 - 4) = 63% win
    Suker 8 (5 - 0 - 3) = 63% win
    Lato 20 (12 - 4 - 4) = 60% win
    Batistuta 12 (7 - 1 - 4) = 58% win
    Rossi 14 (8 - 4 - 2) = 57% win
    Charlton 14 (8 - 2 - 4) = 57% win
    Baggio 16 (9 - 3 - 4) = 56% win
    Ardiles 11 (6 - 1 - 4) = 54% win
    Dirceu 12 (6 - 3 - 3) = 50% win
    Forlan 10 (5 - 1 - 4) = 50% win
    C.Ronaldo 13 (6 - 3 - 4) = 46% win
    Kempes 18 (8 - 4 - 6) = 44% win
    Stoichkov 10 (4 - 1 - 5) = 40% win

    Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

    Forlan 12 (6 (1p) + 1 + 5) out of 14 team goals = 86% (+1 SO goal)
    Villa 10 (9 (2p) + 1 + 0) out of 12 team goals = 83%
    Baggio 14 (9 (2p) + 2 + 3) out of 17 team goals = 82% (+1 SO miss and goal)
    Messi 18 (5 + 6 + 7) out of 22 team goals = 82% (+1 SO goal)
    Rossi 17 (9 + 3 + 5) out of 21 team goals = 81%
    G.Müller 22 (14 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 30 team goals = 73%
    Cruyff 11 (4 + 4 + 3) out of 15 team goals = 73%
    Romario 8 (5 + 3 + 0) out of 11 team goals = 73% (+1 SO goal)
    Eusebio 12 (9 (4p) + 2 + 1) out of 17 team goals = 71%
    Schillaci 7 (6 (1p) + 1 + 0) out of 10 team goals = 70%
    Stoichkov 7 (6 (3p) + 1 + 0) out of 10 team goals = 70%
    Batistuta 13 (10 (4p) + 2 + 1) out of 19 team goals = 68%
    Robben 18 (6 + 5 + 7) out of 27 team goals = 67% (+2 SO goals)
    Sneijder 16 (6 + 3 + 7) out of 25 team goals = 64% (+1 SO miss and goal)
    Suker 7 (6 (1p) + 0 + 1) out of 11 team goals = 64%
    Lato 20 (10 + 8 + 2) out of 33 team goals = 61%
    Pele 22 (12 + 8 + 2) out of 37 team goals = 59%
    Maradona 19 (8 + 8 + 3) out of 32 team goals = 59% (+1 SO miss and goal)
    Jairzinho 17 (9 + 3 + 5) out of 29 team goals = 59%
    Zico 11 (5 (1p) + 5 + 1) out of 19 team goals = 58% (+1 SO goal)
    Kempes 17 (6 + 6 + 5) out of 30 team goals = 57%
    Ardiles 8 (1 + 2 + 5) out of 15 team goals = 53%
    T.Müller 18 (10 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 34 team goals = 53%
    Zidane 9 (5 (2p) + 2 + 2) out of 17 team goals = 53% (+1 SO goal)
    Ronaldo 21 (15 (1p) + 6 + 0) out of 41 team goals = 51% (+1 SO goal)
    Dirceu 6 (3 + 1 + 2) out of 12 team goals = 50%
    Klose 20 (16 + 3 + 1) out of 42 team goals = 48%
    Deyna 10 (4 (1p) + 1 + 5) out of 22 team goals = 45%
    C.Ronaldo 6 (3 (1p) + 2 + 1) out of 16 team goals = 38% (+1 SO goal)
    P.Falcao 5 (3 + 1 + 1) out of 16 team goals = 31 %
    Charlton 6 (4 + 0 + 2) out of 20 team goals = 30%

    Klose is not close the best player of World Cup, and Ronaldo isn't as good as Messi either in full World Cup career performance.
     
  12. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #8287 User101, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    That's right, let's forget any discussion and turn every chat here into throwing random numbers in!

    Stats obsessed guy... these random numbers say nothing. Even you don't know the conclusion to them.

    My God, who invited this guy to this forum? Mate, you're in the wrong place! This is a football-related forum... Haven't you noticed?
     
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  13. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Not random numbers, but analyzed numbers.

    Not stats obsessed, but logical truth obsessed.

    Why are you even here, you offer absolutely nothing? You can't argue your case at all, and every post you make you just attack posters personally, that's your function here.
     
  14. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #8289 User101, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    Where are the numbers that prove that Messi has better stats with Argentina than Ronaldo with Brazil related to quality of the teams? If the numbers show the whole picture, they should prove how the quality of the teams vary.

    I would like to see you talk about this without being a tiny bit subjective (which you already were when mentioned it in the first place).

    Whatever you say in this forum, I will be asking for numbers. Be sure of it. From now on, whatever you say that does not fall into complete objective data analysis will be targeted.

    Tell me, do you find enjoyment in watching football at all?

    What is just sad is that you don't seem to be trolling... you actually believe that stats can prove everything and show the whole picture by themselves.
     
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  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Kind of obvious why (and why it's not a fair comparison), Baggio had almost 500 games in Serie A, Maradona less than 250, and Ronaldo less than 70 games (10 of them post injury). Having said that, Baggio's technique was truly amazing. While he did not have the same speed as both those other players, his close control and feints were top notch.
     
  16. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Where, just like a post above yours.

    Messi @28

    WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
    CA15 runner-up, MVP
    CA07 runner-up, Best Young Player
    OL08 Gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
    WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball

    Ronaldo
    WC98 runner-up, Golden Ball
    WC02 champion, Silver Ball
    CA97 champion, MVP
    CA99 champion, -
    CC97 champion, -

    World Cup Career

    Performance Index (importance in success, win %*importance %, max 1.00)

    0.65 Messi
    0.43 Ronaldo

    Longevity Index (longevity of importance in success, Performance Index * (matches/ Klose matches), max 1.00)

    0.41 Messi
    0.34 Ronaldo

    Matches (Won - Drawn - Lost)

    Ronaldo 19 (16 - 0 - 3) = 84% win
    Messi 15 (12 - 1 - 2) = 80% win

    Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

    Messi 18 (5 + 6 + 7) out of 22 team goals = 82% (+1 SO goal)
    Ronaldo 21 (15 (1p) + 6 + 0) out of 41 team goals = 51% (+1 SO goal)

    Copa America MVP

    Goals
    (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

    CA15 Messi (arg) 10 (1 + 3 + 6) out of 10 team goals = 100% importance (+2 SO goals), runner-up
    CA97 Ronaldo (bra) 9 (5 + 2 + 2) out of 22 team goals = 41% importance, champion

    In relative level to opposition and team edge Messi has performed better than Ronaldo in World Cup, and his best performance in Copa America overshadows Ronaldo's.
     
  17. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    First of all, where do you get these numbers from?

    A guy like Ronaldo, who was the all-time top WC scorer, led Brazil to 2 finals (something the numbers will also not measure) and is the second scorer in the history of the NT is most definitely ahead, in terms of NT success, than a guy who did not achieve any of that with his NT. It's just common sense...

    For all I know, the fact that Ronaldo had better teammates can also say that he was so great, that he managed to shine above other stars... which can actually work FOR him, not necessarily against him. But your numbers will not show that. Numbers will not be able to even discuss the possibility...

    There's no deep analysis in there.. It's just random numbers thrown in, mate. Not even your conclusion had any depth.

    What kind of conclusion is this: In relative level to opposition and team edge Messi has performed better than Ronaldo in World Cup, and his best performance in Copa America overshadows Ronaldo's..... that's it? That's what your numbers told you?

    You have got to be joking me. Aren't you embarrassed for calling yourself a football fan?
     
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  18. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Where? By watching the actual goals and not imagining things like you do.

    All-time top scorer, two finals? Now who's using raw numbers?

    There's infinitely deeper analyze there than in your trivial post, numbers are related to wider spectrum of performance (not just scoring) and related to importance and team edge.
     
  19. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #8294 User101, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    By watching the actual goals? Are you serious?

    So you come up with them? That alone shows the subjectivity... you choose the criteria for the numbers.

    Numbers take only a few things into account. They certainly don't show the whole picture.

    As I said before, they can be supportive of one's point, but they are not the whole point.

    You're an embarrassment to this forum. Let's turn everything here into number throwing and close down the whole forum. No need for football-related discussions anymore.

    You're like one of those crazy scientists who can't talk to people, so they stay in their labs, isolated, coming up with numbers to explain how the world functions... you're a joke, nothing else.
     
  20. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Umm, yes, how do you plan to analyze something if you don't know anything about it?

    Logical and well argued subjectivity is infinitely better than plain and trivial subjectivity.
     
  21. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #8296 User101, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    The act of determining what is logical and what is trivial is already a subjective act by itself, you fool. You show the bias from the very start of your analysis and don't even realise it....

    So you decide what's relevant?

    @greatstriker11 @Pipiolo

    Can you believe this guy?

    You're in the wrong forum @Bada Bing. This is a football-related forum, not a maths class.

    By your standards, Maradona wouldn't even be in the top 20 greatest players of all time.

    By your methods, C. Ronaldo should have won the Balon D'or this year with ease. I bet you went nuts when Messi actually won, trying to understand what went wrong with your calculations and your "deep" analysis. I can only picture it! LOL

    That's how inaccurate your calculations can be...

    Absolute joke!
     
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  22. Kippax Ste

    Kippax Ste New Member

    Nov 3, 2014
    Manchester
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    To compare any athlete in any sport is a completely disrespectful procedure to that particular sport.
    Football is a team based sport, so Messi may of looked rather average playing in the Real Madrid squad, and vice versa with Christiano Ronaldo in the Barca squad.
    Different styles, Team ethics, coaching implementation, era in which the player plays, and of course the randomness in the actual opponents ie; who's injured for them, how are they coached, what are their tactics for this particular match.

    Messi would of been overlooked and would never of been a footballer if he was looking to play in his prime in say the English League in the 1970's...

    Can you imagine that diving/cheating vermin C.Ronaldo trying to play in the 80's?
    He would've had his legs broken.

    I repeat, comparing players is disrespectful to.this team based sport.
    It's like when people compare Casius Clay and Mike Tyson - they played their trade in different eras and against different opponents.
     
  23. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Best pass of each of last 7 games.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Most through balls 09-16 in Europe's Top 5 leagues, Uefa Champions League and Europa League

    251 Messi
    181 Fabregas
    170 Totti
     
  24. User101

    User101 Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Really? And what stats did you use to determine the "best pass of each of last 7 games"?

    I bet they were just as random and subjective.
     
  25. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Don't forget that well known stat % importance !!!!!!! Thats not too subjective !!!!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
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