A typical result to end what was a poor regular season, hope it is the last time I see Iro in a Toronto FC jersey.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 I thought I was the only one that thought that. When TFC traded Tchani most people were saying it was a great deal, but I thought it was a major ******** up.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 Agreed. for quite a while I was willing to overlook his mistakes and give him more time to settle. Unfortunately he has shown that he simply can't distribute, and has little spacial awareness I can't say I would agree with this. Tchani was unneeded surplus, and we desperately needed a left footed central defender. Tchani is a defensive midfielder, and we have plenty of those. they tried to play him as an attacking mid, but his only real strength was his ability to stay on the ball. Our best option was to try and get something we needed for him, and that's what we did. Sorry for the off topic
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 Maybe they can pick up a Dutch defender. Their Dutch forwards are working out well..
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 The Iro trade was simply a panic trade on the managers part, it was clear Winter didn't have faith in putting in Herny at CB for the rest of the season (remeber when Tchani played CB for 20 minutes as a sub and Eckersley experiment?) so we needed someone left footed CB with more experieced and Iro was the guy I guess. I knew he was very slows and clumsey before coming in but I didn't expect him to be this much of a liability. Interesting to see next season with Harden/Iro/Williams/Cann who is going to be moved on as I have to believe a 1 or 2 new CB will be in the cards. As far as the game it was typical of our home games all season where we give up goals on set pieces and end up dropping points.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 I'm thinking that it will be Harden partnered with a new experienced CB. I don't think Cann or Williams will walk into the lineup ahead of Harden, and I doubt we'll sign a new CB to sit on the bench
If you analyze the Tchiani-Iro trade in terms of their individual talent, sure Tchiani has much more potential. But to understand why the trade happened you have to understand that (a) TFC had a surplus of D-Mids and a shortage of CBs and (b) most MLS teams have a surplus of D-Mids and a shortage of CBs, so CBs are at a premium. In fairness to Iro, I thought that he did improve a bit from his first few games here once he got used to his new teammates. Not nearly enough to be considered for a starter's position, mind you, but I don't think he was as bad as he started off. But to answer the original question, with Cann & Williams coming back, Henry improving and potential new signings at the CB position, Iro will drop further and further down on the depth list and will at most be a bench player next year either coming in at the end of games or during nutralite games vs FC Edmonton. I dont see him being outright released due to the shortage of CBs in the league. Perhaps he will be a throw-in in a trade. I think Harden is a much better choice to keep as your depth player because he is more versatile. I dont think Harden is starter material either, but he can be a decent backup
I hope Impact picking him up during the expansion draft next month, so we will have an empty CB spot to fill, which they will considering how the team rebuilding has done so far.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 I don't think Tchani was that healthy when he was here and as a result I truly don't think we got to see the best of him. After his first match (which I thought looked promising) he then looked really tentative in challenges in subsequent matches and then was on the injury list when he was traded to the Crew, IIRC. He arrived there but didn't play a game, having knee surgery instead. I read somewhere that he's hope to be available for the playoffs, but I think that's a long shot. Thing is, at the time, he was a player that was coveted (in this case by the Crew) but definitely someone you could trade because he was younger and his previous year's rookie campaign had been a success with much potential and he wasn't saddled by a big contract and subsequent salary cap hit. Iro has had some good moments but for the most part he's a player who struggles with pace and positioning and as you noted his play on the ball can make supporters cringe and hold their collective breaths. Unfortunately, he's played the way I thought he would play.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by atlanticTFCfan Agreed. TFC should never have traded Tchani for him. both are insignificant and lack the talent required so it doesn't matter which one we have.
Hindsight is of course 20-20. I didn't like the trade at the time but didn't think that the results would have been as awful as they were. Iro was a better player with Crew than he has been with us. I'm guessing that the TFC system is simply one he can't work well in.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - October 22, 2011 That's quite possible but we'll have to see what happens after a year or even to see if that is case.
I do not see either or Iro or Harden being a starting CB next year, with both of them behind a Cann and Williams in depth. Cann is good. Probably will not be back, sadly. Williams can't distribute, but as a pure defender he's great- Makes for a perfect CB sub as a depth guy. Injuries, or too tighten up at the end of a game to finish he is ideal. Personally after Iro's interview about saying he wants to stay, but its different then actually being able to, clearly talks have occured. Talks are always occurring. MLSE is putting lots of effort now into TFC, and with their professional background in sport, Toronto FC is one of the most professionally run clubs right now (finally). They probably low balled Iro. Basically stating that if your back it'll be with a depth player level of $$. Iro might shake his head to it, but when he starts looking around, he'll probably come to realize no one will pay him more. Harden sits above him depth wise. If Cann is back, you pair him with a very Solid capable CB, and have Williams and Harden as backup with green Henry slowly worked in as your 3rd guy/ the guy you use in a 3-4-3. Thats what this club needs, tho I don't think the injury bug will ever hit our central defensive core as hard as it did this year. Dont overlook that, guys. For the injuries Winter faced. He did well. Very well.
Cann was solid two years ago, but how are his distribution skills? Under Preki, it seemed like the defenders wanted nothing to do with the ball, passing it around the back 4 until someone got pressured enough to launch a long ball to the opposing team.
Is Cann left footed? I don't remember? Winter has said he specifically wants a left footer at left centre back. Iro IS this, so we would need to go and find another left footed centre back that is available for transfer to replace him. I find it very unlikely that we will find a left footed centre back very easily, so I can see Iro staying and being our full time left centre back next season. Iro may be a very different player with a full pre season under his belt! TFC fans are VERY quick to judge players it seems. Remember that none of the TFC squad (other than the FEW that we started with) had a pre season, and never had more than a couple of days all season to train properly! It may be a different story after preseason together!
Cann is a left footed CB Iro had a pre-season with the crew and didn't crack the starting lineup. He's awkward and clumsy. If being left footed is the reason you keep him, I would rather have a righty on the left side, as it seems like Iro has two left feet.
de Klerk said that it is better for distribution to have a left footed player at LCB, not that it is the only important thing Being left footed improves distribution, but if given the choice between a left footed defender with poor distribution (Iro) and a right footed defender with smart distribution, I'd take the skilled right footer any day. Iro being left footed doesn't magically make him better at distributing. Or better at defending for that matter Fair enough, but he's got a LOT of problems to work out of his game All that said, I'm not sure that Cann is the solution to LCB either. his distribution wasn't all that spectacular either. It was getting better until he wrecked his knee, but who knows how he'll be when he comes back. I personally expect the worst, and hope Cann's worst is still better than Iro's best
Cann did do a number on his knee, and being of age, his full recovery is questionable. The one variable is that Cann, for what its worth, is and has always been in tremendous shape. He values his body and is a cut above the rest in this category. This attention might be the variable that gives him a higher probability on fully recovering and regaining pre-injury form. If Cann didn't get injured I would have seen him being dealt in that mash-up. Now, who knows what all happen, his stock is low, but his walk out last year for a week might still not be forgotten.
I don't fully agree with this 1. four of the players we dealt all had injury problems at the time of their trades (Alan Gordon, Tony Tchani, Jacob Peterson, Nana Attakora) so I don't think that is what stopped him from being traded 2. all the players traded were surplus (Gordon because of Koevermans, Tchani because of an abundance of DMs, Attakora because of constant injuries) or useless (Peterson, Gargan and Santos). Cann wasn't surplus or useless - he was and still is the number one choice for his spot. I find that many people accuse Winter of holding grudges without any real evidence for this. Winter said that he would welcome Cann back to the team if he made an apology to his team. Cann did so, and Winter welcomed him back and made him a starter until the injury. I think that if the walkout was still a problem afterwards, he would have been traded at about the same as DeRo, not after an entire season
For the reasons you stated he was the one and only choice so he couldnt be traded. I don't accuse Winter of holding grudges, as I respect and agree with his decisions when it comes to hold outs and this one was delt with correctly, and Cann rejoined. It wasn't even his idea, it was the agents and I don't think Winter has anything against Cann. But the contract issues that lead to this dispute will not disappear....they were just put off for the season. Might not be able to overcome it. As for your reasoning for his departure to not take place. Injury problems, as in day to day injuries are far different then a torn ACL. Those guys showed up as probable, doubtful, ect before games. In contrast, Cann was a 'inactive' roster player. To my knowledge, your legally not allowed to trade inactive players... This is the difference. Attakora didn't have constant injury problems.. he had attitude problems. Tchani deal isn't pulled potentially if Cann doesn't get injuried** correction Cann is fit, Iro isn't brought in. 100%, unless Cann is then flipped somewhere else. Oh and Santos isn't useless, well as far as scouting in the league was concerned, as he brought back quite an asset in Avila.
I don't know if its Winter "holding grudges" or not - but he managerial decisions through the season were occassionally very strange, with no explanation! It may be that Winter just holds his cards too close to his chest, and it makes it seem like players are coming in and out of favour like a kid with a new toy at Christmas! Like Martina coming in and out of favour, Cordon having a few games and looking like the real deal, then vanishing, Soolsma also going in and out of favour etc. I hear things like "Martina is having some difficulties"...but what does that mean?! Does that mean that Martina was having personal issues? Does it mean that he's not training hard enough?! Winter needs to be better with his explanations, otherwise it makes him look like he's falling in and out with players, for no real reason. I think I will give Winter the benefit of the doubt in that English isn't his first language, and that he's a first year manager, so maybe this will all get better next season?
I agree that Winter hold his cards tight to his chest. But this does not mean he falls out of favour. I don't think he cares much what it "looks like" and he really does not care if others look at it as a falling out or whatnot. As a want to be no it all, by definition, I, too, want to know what in the world happened to Martina but he doesnt owe it to me. All Winter owes to me is to put out good results, as Im a TFC fan. I also think its bad to have a manager who cares "what it looks like" too much or tells the media too much (which may cause problems i.e. Ron Wilson-Leafs with players embarrassment through use of media). Winter is confident and does not need "our" approval. This same trait will make sure he doesn't make any decisions out of fear/ect.. so its not necessarily bad.
I think the case of Martina is an interesting one. I say this as all my NON soccer friends all still "only" talk about 'that Martina goal' (from early in the season). Now, us TFC fans all know Martina ONLY from that goal as well, as shortly after that game, he hardly ever played! It would be good from a PR standpoint to be kept in the loop as a supporter as to some of the players. I sound a little stupid telling my non soccer friends "actually, I don't know much about Martina, he hardly ever played after scoring that goal", and then those people think TFC are a one trick player, and Martina is that trick! If Winter was to be more forthcoming with his player information, it would shed a lot more light to the TFC and non TFC public, and they might understand more why the player who scored the best goal of the season, hardly ever played!
This type of info could give other teams an advantage in preparation. As if we were to say this player is out of favour, this player that, they would no how to prepare. I bet for at least a month after that other teams were flagging Martina as the guy to mark meanwhile he's not even in the starting 11.