Gray Davis Recall Please forgive me if this topic has been raised before (I looked back 60 days). The Governor of California is the subject of a fairly widely-publicized recall effort. His approval ratings are in the toilet (29% last I looked, although that was a month or two ago), and in true Republocrat form, he has been accused of some significant play-for-pay (Oracle, Prison Guard union, to name two; like Sammy, he just got caught), and much of his other decision-making has been dogged by similar intimations. The effort is being spearheaded (according to some reports; others have him simply as a large donor) by Darrel Issa, someone so far to the right that Ann Coulter calls him up to say: "Dude, chill...". It is primarily a vast right-wing conspiracy to this point(), although the left is not to terribly pleased with his Grayness, either. The CA Greens took this matter up at it's last statewide meeting, and the response was not to officially get involved as a party, but leave it up to individual members to decide if they want to actively or financially support the recall. Personally, I signed the recall petition the other day. That he completely mis-managed the surplus we had during dot-com-mania is deplorable; mix that with play-for-pay, and it's enough to send blood a-boilin. I'm less afraid of Gov. Terminator or Gov. Issa than I am afraid of their impending recall by the other side of the asile. This does set a dangerous precedent. OK. What do you guys think? Republicans, before bringing in the knee-jerk "Get that nasty tax-and-spend commie out of there", imagine this was Pete Wilson. Democrats, your man is under siege from both right and left, are you with him or are you still too bitter about his Enron campaign contributions (gosh! did they support democrats, too?) and their effect on his decision-making skills during the energy crisis? Sorry about some of the sloppy argumentation, and the blanks left to be filled in. A little time & I can get sources. Curious...
Good descision. Speaking of recalls, the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain mayor (*caugh* Bloomberg) in New York gets the axe as well one day.
I think Davis is a mediocre governor and is as caught up in the money->policy game as any politician in the nation. That said, neither of these seems grounds for a recall, IMO. I think recalls should be reserved for serious, documented misconduct in office (see Evan Mecham, ex AZ gov, who hit the recalled, impeached, indicted trifecta). Californians had a chance to vote a year ago, they had poor candidates, but they made their choice. Without documented wrongdoing (and what I've heard sounds like policy disputes/mismanagement and the common, if regretable, donor preferences that go on at every level of politics) the results of the election should stand. This could just be a California thing, as every governor since Earl Warren has had a recall drive attempted.
I don't like the recall effort because it began as soon as the election was over. I don't think many people would say Davis is a great governor, but there was an election and people chose to put him back in office. More significantly, the ease at which a recall can occur in CA is insane. The small number of people needed to begin a recall means even a highly popular govenor could face recall by an angry (and small) minority.
Throw the bum out I'm 1000% in favor of this recall. Why the GOP is anxious to have Cruz Bustamante take over is their business - maybe it's a genuine desire to help California, who knows. But I hope they succeed. Davis was bought and paid for by California and Texas utilities, and his pidling weak action helped cause not only the 2000 energy "crisis," but his agreement to pay outrageous and fixed energy prices was a big reason the budget is out of control. A stronger governor would have put California ahead of his campaign contributors, especially criminal campaign contributors. Not Davis. And leave it to Gray Davis to think he knows better than parole boards. In fact, leave it to Gray Davis to leave an innocent woman in jail because of his idiotic, pig-headed heartlessness. There might be worse people to govern California, but I'm not so sure. Even Saddam Hussein was able to balance a budget.
I signed the recall petition, not because I hate Davis (well, I do, but not that much), but because I want to see the "political process" in action. I bet he squirms out of this one, and calls it a victory, and then when he gets term-limited out of office at the end of this, he'll run for Senate or President or something hilarious like that, and win, because the voters are sheep and they vote based on name-recognition (which this will give him more of) and how much money the candidate spends (Davis, like Bush, is for whatever reason a good fundraiser).
Re: Throw the bum out I've gained respect for you Dan. Too many people on this board just blindly support the "left" or "right". While you're clearly a leftist from your posting history, you have shown the ability to think clearly and without bias. I hope it's contagious.
I think recalls should happen only when an elected official has either been convicted of a crime or failed to uphold the oath of office that he/she took upon arrival. I don't know nearly enough about Davis to say that he's guilty of either of those, but I doubt it. This has nothing to do with "setting a bad precedent"; it has to do with the reason why we have elections in the first place. Don't like him? Don't vote for him. Don't like any of the choices? Join the GOP (or the Democrats) and campaign for a better opponent next time. Nobody should have to look over his shoulder for four years straight, wondering if one critical decision is going to get him fired.
Re: Re: Throw the bum out Well, don't compliment me too much - Davis isn't exactly a leftist, to say the very least. (Okay, he'd look more liberal if abortion and gun control were even issues in California anymore, but they're not, so he's not.)
Although I think Davis has been an incompetent, pay-for-policy governor who has demostrated zero leadership, I have not and will not support the recall effort, because of the following: 1. There was already an election and California voters already had a chance to elect someone better. The fact that the GOP put forth the moronic Simon instead of the more reasonable Rhiorden and the fact that a third party candidate like Camijo has little chance, is all beside the point. 2. A new election would cost tons of money. And with California already $30 billion in debt, it's the last thing we need. 3. The recall effort is being funded by ultra right-wing Isa who wants to be a candidate himself. Frankly, he can just wait for the general election, like everyone else, and promptly get his ass kicked by the Terminator in the GOP primary. Plus, it smacks of the political right trying to circumvent the legitimate democratic process. 4. A recall, as has already been said on this thread, should be reserved only for outrageous misconduct or something criminal, not for general unpopularity, policy disagreement, or for pay-for-policy (which is all too common throughout all levels of politics and all parties). 5. Finally, while Davis handled the whole situation poorly, the energy crisis and the subsequent damage it did to the budget and economy, was mostly due to deregulation (passed well before Davis was governor) and the blatent market manipulation done by energy suppliers, and the FERC (serving under the Bush admin, protecting said energy suppiliers) refusing to enforce existing federal regulations. It is a well documented fact that many of the energy suppliers/brokers/generator owners (including Harken, Enron, Duke, Halliburton) turned off the generators to decrease supply and thus increase demand and thus increase price (and ignoring existing contracts), all the while they laughed all the way to the bank. The Bush admin did nothing to push the FERC to enforce fed regulations (which would have alleviated the mess), obviously because it was lucrative for them and because of the campaign money received from the energy suppliers. This, in addition to the dot com implosion and 9/11, has a lot more to do with California's current problems than Davis' poor performance. And I absolutely would not mind it if Davis were gone. I would say "Good riddance". But to pin everything on him or to try to recall his governorship is completely asanine.
I'm glad you brought up Riordan, because, just like a vote for Ralph Nader was a vote for George W. Bush, a vote for Bill Simon in the GOP primary was a vote for Gray Davis. Riordan would have wiped the floor with Davis. He was kissing Latino ass by endorsing Villaraigosa for Mayor of LA, with the sole purpose of trying to chip into that voting block. But the rural and anti-LA right in the state fucked everything up by giving that tool Simon the GOP nod. This recall has helped convince me that the RNC (although I don't know of their actual involvement of this recall) are actually trying to kill the GOP in California, as a way of neutralizing the growth of moderate Republicans that this state has produced for years. It would explain W bending over to Mexico's various demands to pretty much eliminate theUS/Mexico border. Very true, and the worst part is that it will all fall on the GOP again. Actually, recalls are part of the democratic process, and have been used for good, such as the ousting of half of the Bell Gardens City Council last year.
Re: Throw the bum out I'm sorry if I don't have time to go sifting through the state constitution on ca.gov... but basically if the recall effort succeeds then Bustamante (the Lt. Gov., I know) becomes governor? Wouldn't it be something of a pyrrhic victory for those spearheading this effort if they put the first into power the state's first Latino governor since California was a Mexican state?
Re: Re: Throw the bum out Nope. In CA the process is like this: If the recall effort gets enough signatures (somewhere on the order of 900,000), the measure would then be placed on the ballot, and a special election called. At that point, each party that cared to (democrats included) would get a chance to run their own "if it passes" gubenatorial candidate. Voters would then be asked to vote on 1) the recall, and 2) who they'd like to see if the recall passes. I don't know if a voter may vote simultaneously against the recall and for another candidate. Perhaps someone who's lived in California a little longer can tell us that. Oh, and just for good measure: Horsepuckey, for reasons that would fill another thread.
Re: Re: Re: Throw the bum out OK, so sue me. I did decide to take a break and sift through the California Constitution... The answer then, is yes. But wouldn't Cruz Bustamante putting his name as a candidate on a recall election ballot be a sign of open mutiny?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Throw the bum out You can't rebel against a dead man. If the recall effort gets anywhere near that far, Davis' sub-30% popularity will take care of this issue, and he will decide to spend more time with his family.
Throw the bum out The CA-Democrats are already placing DiFi in a position to step in, if the petition drive keeps going the way it is. Google News usually has up-to-date info on the subject, which is where I get my anecdotal information.
Ahnuld will never be governor. I mean, the liberal news media will hound him over his appalling abuse of illegal drugs, which probably were the key contributor to his health problems. And the moralistic right will join in, because they are for family values and hate the use of illegal drugs. In all seriousness, this guy shot up steroids like Keith Richards shoots up heroin, for years and years and years. It'll be interesting to see how that plays as a campaign issue. I'll tell ya this, if I lived in Cali, I wouldn't want this guy heading up anti-drug efforts aimed at my children. Jesus, you might as well resurrect Jimi Hendrix and put him in charge.
Re: Re: Re: Throw the bum out Considering that Davis's compaign ads during the Dem primary were aimed at Riordan, not at another Dem candidate, I stand by my assertion. You people on the further right are gonna have to own up to the fact that it's your fault Gray Davis is still governor because of your desire for a socially conservative candidate.
Even though I signed the petition, I knew it was just another futile attempt to punish a totally failed governor and the most pusillanimous politician I've ever seen. The GOP had a perfect opportunity when he was up for re-election and blew it. Why should they succeed now? If the recall does succeed, it seems anything might happen in the election. Maybe we could have Jello Biafra for our next gov.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Throw the bum out Umm... (the avatar, Eric... look at the avatar...) And, according to some on these boards, those of us on the farther left were helping to defeat Davis when our man got 5%. If the GOP is lurching too far to the right for you, perhaps we can fit you for something in a Libertarian? It's a lot roomier in the Dogma. Point is, neither the GOP nor the DNC has any God-given right to the right or the left vote. If your local or national party isn't working for you, there is one that's closer. But this isn't really the right forum for a rant on the anti-democratic aspects of our current functional political duopoly (or a rant on how that's like talking about the round aspects of a bowling-ball).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Throw the bum out Oh, all right, maybe not you. Sorry, I was caught up in an anti-Bill Simon froth.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20030609.shtml Now I've seen everything... Dan Loney is in favor of the recall and Robert Novak is against it. Of course, Novak is against it because he considers none of the Republicans in California conservative enough.