Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. But giving him credit for all the accomplishments isn't folly? He's the head coach. He gets credit and blame based on how we do. Objectively, Bob's four-year resume is extremely impressive. It's been an interesting road to get there and he rightfully has taken significant criticism in spots, but in a bottom-line business, Bob's gotten the last laugh repeatedly.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. I've been mostly pro-Bradley. But people do have to admit that if we didn't beat Algeria there'd be a consolidated "Bradley sucks" thread going right now. Bradley was 3 minutes away from being bashed by almost everybody except the most ardent pro-Bradley people.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. I have been anti-Bob for a while but I will give credit where credit is due. He did do a lot of things wrong throughout this cycle, but I feel he has really learned and grown as a coach from year to year. His specialty is obviously his ability to man manage and create tremendous team chemistry/spirit, and he has really grown tactically, he is not great but has made huge strides. I still don't take back anything I said about him in the past, a lot of us were right in criticizing him at points, however he has done a tremendous job so far in the WC which is all that matters, and anyone that can still bash Bob now must just have a personal issue with him. Even if Donovan's goal never happened and we bombed out of the group I would have had a very hard time complaining about the way Bob did things. Lastly as for Michael, that's not even a point worth making, for well over 2 years I don't think I've seen a single poster not put MB in their first XI or consider him our first choice CM, you'd have to go back to the very beginning of the cycle to find complaints about MB and that is a real reach. Like most people are saying the people who supported Bob no matter what are just as wrong if not more than the people who were against Bob at times, if things aren't going good criticism is justified, however when he is doing well you must give credit, which the majority of people on this board seem to be doing.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Even if we didn't scored against Algeria, and I have criticized Bradley in the past it would have been hard for me to bash Bob. Maybe we could have pressed against England and tried to get the win, maybe if we started better in the first half against Slovenia. However, the effort, the never say die attitude, the willingness to attack, and how very well we played in the last half of the group stage (2nd half against Slovenia and the whole game against Algeria) it would have been tough to complain a real lot.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Oh, plenty of people have been leaving him out of their first elevens. Even more have been saying that he shouldn't be a lock starter (which, though I essentially disagree, I think is a totally defensible stance). And the virulently, irrationally anti-MB posters have gotten a quieter latetly, but they were in full force all the way through WCQs (and beyond). For example, earlier in the thread, I quote one guy saying that Jones' decision to play for the US means that MB shouldn't even make the roster for South Africa. He said that in Sept. 2009.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Holy crap man. That was the most amazing pwnage I think I've ever seen in the history of life. Well played. withoutthee88, it's time to dine. How do you like your crow? I second this as post of the year/crow of the year/what have you.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Quoted in entirety because this is post of the year type stuff. Repped.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. i have never given credit to just bob. I have acknowledged players, both individual and as a team. My point is that most people are "if we do good it's b/c of the players, if we do bad its b/c of Bob"... that is the wrong way to look at things
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Yeah, that was a classic post. Tried, but couldn't Rep him. Even made it worth reading another Coach Bradley thread. But how many do we need running at the same time? And some folks are digging up and bumping year-old Bradley threads. I have defended most of BB's choices the last few years as reasonable. I have strongly defended MB from some amazingly uninformed trash. But at some point the arguing begins to circle, then spiral, and then side into the abiss. Can we close these multiple threads? At least until late Saturday?
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. I have always respected your work on these boards. You're incredibly analytical and rarely, if ever make rash decisions/statements that can't be backed up by hard, hard evidence. I wish more posters were like that. However boring some might think the boards would become.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. The amount of utter internet pwnage in this post is simply staggering. BAM!!!!!
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Seriously, shut the feck up. Anybody who's ever had an ounce of balls and who has been on these boards for a while, has made comments that look howlingly stupid at a later date. And comments that look outright brilliant. This forum isn't about you. I really truly don't give a shit if you were right about everything in your life, and that you are far smarter than all the rest of us. Great. Wonderful. Now bug off. This forum is about USMNT's remarkable run. It's about the players. And the coaches. And the game. Let the fans on this board enjoy the success of the players and coaches, including yes the success of players and coaches they doubted. They are allowed to support them too. If I said Landon was a weinie who wasn't man enough to score against Germany, and who wasn't man enough to play in Europe, and who wasn't man enough to play a decent WC in Germany, and wasn't man enough to keep his wife, and wasn't man enough to be a leader on the U.S. team ... well let me clap for Landon now.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. So you're arguing that Bradley's coaching accomplishments aren't significant because of something that hasn't happened yet? Even for a lawyer, that's a specious argument. (Yes, I know lawyer and specious are synonyms.) Look at it this way: In EVERY competition we've entered, we've done as well or better than any previous coach. Gold Cup: Bradley won in '07, 2nd in '09; Arena won in 2002 and 2005, finished 3rd in 2003 and out of the money in 2000. Bora won in 1991, 2nd in 1993, Sampson finished 3rd in 1996 and 2nd in 1998. VERDICT: PUSH Confederations Cup: Bradley finished 2nd in 2009; Arena 3rd in 1998, out of the money in '03. VERDICT: BRADLEY World Cup Qualifying: Bradley finished 1st in 2009 (20 points); Arena 1st in 2005 (22 points), T2nd (3rd on tiebreakers) in 2001. VERDICT: 2005 saw more points, but 2009 had a brutal schedule with the Confed Cup and Gold Cup, so let's call it a PUSH* World Cup Group Stages: Bradley: 1st place 5 points (1-0-2) and unbeaten (based on GF). Arena finished 2nd in 2002 with 4 points (1-1-1) and of course last in 2006 with 1 point (0-2-1). Bora finished 3rd in 1994 (based on GD) with 4 points (1-1-1). Verdict: BRADLEY World Cup Knockout Stages: Arena beat Mexico(!) and lost a close match to Germany in 2002. Bora lost to Brazil in a match that saw Tab Ramos' skull shattered. Bradley: ? VERDICT: TBD After breaking it down scientifically, it's 2 to Bradley and 2 to Push with one TBD**. Advantage: RoboBob *Sampson does deserve honorable mention for the 1997 campaign, which saw only one defeat in Saprissa and our (less-and-less) famous tie in Azteca. On the other hand, we only won 4 matches. **No, Copa America doesn't count as it's just friendlies for us. Although Sampson would win that argument hands down, the only one for history.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. This. Well said. All we can really ask for from a coach is that he puts his players in a good position to get results. This includes player selection, tactics, man management, and substitutions. For this WC cycle, Bob has done a better job at these than any coach in our history, by far. Whether we advanced or not.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Ok, genius, did you actually read all of the comments that 88 made that were referenced in Grumpy's epic post? If you did ,you'd realize this: There's a huge difference between pointing out the perceived shortcomings of a certain player or coach, and actively rooting against the entire team to spite that player or coach. You can say all of the mean things you want about Landon Donovan (Oh, and by the way, it doesn't take any "balls" to type vitriol anonymously into a computer.) But as soon as you start hoping that the team loses to prove you right, you are no longer a fan of the team. Heck, numerous posters on this board were praying that Bornstein would never see the field this month, but none of the sane ones were actually hoping he'd let a goal go by against Algeria. That's the difference between manly, ballsy guys like you and psychopaths like 88.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. while I am not anti-bob, I bemoan any post asking for an apology on an opinion board. no one owes anyone anything on boards such as this.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. I believe I need a small side dish of crow as well, for a couple of very specific things... 1) I recall a post I made the night before the Egypt game a year ago, when I called for the Beasley to left back experiment to be ended and to chalk it up as a failure. Apparently it was successful enough that Bob felt comfortable putting Run DMB in at left back for the last 15-20 minutes with our World Cup lives on the line. Which brings me to... 2) ...the guy who made way for DMB. For all the crap most of here at BS Nation shovel on top of Johnny Bornstein, when you consider the pressure of the situation, #12 played the game of his life on Wednesday...well done, young man...well done.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Dude, you highlighted a SINGLE sentence out of my entire post to make your point completely out of the context of mine. I was a neutral observer offering an interpretation. It is silly to worry about something that didn't happen. I don't know the poster you were initially corresponding with but it seemed like an overreaction on your part to an irrelevant statement on his part. There is truth to both of your points. I agree - as my first post in this thread indicates - that we need to look forward b/c we accomplished our first goal. The match vs. Ghana is all that matters right now. I was very critical of Bradley last summer about his subbing and some of his tactical preferences. It seems he has really worked on his in-game decision making and I'm very happy to see that. My opinion of Bob won't be fully formed until the end of the Cup but I am by no means a 'hater.' In reality, however, all I really care about as an American is that our Nats succeed. I'll worry about analyzing Bob and the players when I'm not having as much fun as I am right now. These "See, I was right, you were wrong threads" are silly, IMO. Everyone just enjoy the ride.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. I don't think any of us are complaining about the stupid. We all know that we've all said stupid stuff at one time or another. It's the confrontational, condescending, irrational, angry, and demonstrably nonsensical posts that we object to. Or at least that I object to. Which is exactly what we're talking about right here. Giving some credit not just the players for being awesome but also to a guy who's gotten way more shit that he deserved. I'm not saying Bradley's a perfect coach. I think he's made some mistakes along the way. I've complained about some of them. (And I've been wrong about some of those complaints and probably wrong about some of the stuff I defended.) You want to call somebody out for mucking up the forum, call out the guys who spent two solid years complaining that RoboBob was too stupid to pick his own nose and insisting that Mini Bradley didn't deserve to play for the NT. All the while calling everybody who disagreed idiots. That would have been unfair and inaccurate. And the first one would have been irrelevant. EDIT: Removed a bit of unnecessary confrontation from my own post.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. We also had two goals stolen from us that would have ensured qualification much sooner, without the nail biting, life-shortening finish we had. This game is a game of inches and seconds. So sometimes we don't get those to go our way. Sometimes that's not the coaches fault. Nobody is crediting Bob Bradley directly for Landon Donovan's goal. What I would credit Bradley with is the heart, soul and grit this team has, with finding a system these players fit perfectly into (a very important skill), with amazing and timely substitutions*, and with a little bit of luck - like Bornstein not giving away a goal. I wasn't impressed with him in the Confederations Cup, despite the final standings. I have never thought him a great coach, just an adequate one who sometimes did things that really pissed me off. Although there are things many of us would have done differently in this tournament, overall I don't think anyone can honestly say Bob Bradley has not been at least a very, very good coach. *In this tournament. Before this, I'd agree his subs were predictable and seemed scripted.
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. Very thorough. A couple of respectful thoughts: 1. The Copa America and the Confederations Cup are two major non-World Cup tournaments. Copa features some of the best teams in the world. They should both be considered as they're both MAJOR international tournaments - invite (or qualification) only. 2. Arena has the edge on Gold Cups. He's won more. He also has - right now - a major edge on Bob in the World Cup department. I don't care if you break it down between group stages and knockout stages, if Bob's first-place group stages team falls short of making the quarterfinals, he has no advantage whatsoever over Arena. They both qualified out of the group - that's really all that matters. 3. For me, now that we consistently win/place high in WCQ and Gold Cup, the World Cup is the ultimate measure of success. 4. You also have consider who each coach had at his disposal talent-wise; otherwise, this is a completely biased analysis. Finishing 3rd in the Confed, for example, may be (hypothetically) more impressive than finishing 2nd if we have a considerably better team now than we did then. I like Bob but this seems a bit biased in his favor. Under Arena we had strong showings at similar tournaments, WCQ, and in the World Cup (of course, along with some dreadful ones, as well). Right now, for me, they're kind of even, if not in favor of Arena simply for 2002. But this is a subjective debate. Really good work on looking all of this up. Hopefully we can add to Bob's list of accomplishments!
Re: Seriously, there needs to be some crow eating. US was 1 Hand of Clod and a 91st minute lucky rebound goal from going home...so we need to worship Bob ??? Okay. Other than the fact that his defense has generally sucked, and his forwards can't score - the man is brilliant. Hire him for life already.