Karl, I think you've forgotten that the CIA itself asked for the investigation, and so far as I know, there's no evidence he's done anything other than a) investigate who leaked her name and b) investigate possibly perjury to the grand jury. That's pretty much the antithesis of the administration-long investigation of Clinton. He was cleared in the Whitewater case, and, what, a half dozen other things, and only got busted on the Paula Jones perjury trap case.
Perjury and Obstruction of Justice perhaps. But we have ample evidence that right-wingers have no respect for "justice" or laws, so its really no surprise.
I remember people calling Air America to say that Karl Rove was responsible for the creating the fake CBS memo about president Bush. Some people actually believe it. Besides, just wait until the Aruban authorities finally announce that they are charging the suspects with murder at the very moment when the grand jury releases its findings about the Plame case.
LOL. FWIW, I've got a right-wing friend who really believes the dust-up over Kerry and his medals was actually financed by the Clintons. Maybe we should get an 'Urban Myths - Politics' thread going.
Yeah, there are kooks on all sides and it would be amusing to do a thread on it. But I think my comments were relevant to this particular thread based on the direction of the discussion in this particular thread. It is interesting that this thread was started based on a rumor, and it is also interesting that some people are already complaining about how Rove owns the media and how the media will concentrate on the Aruba story and the Live 8 concert, and the O'connor story (as if that isn't trully the biggest story of the month) just because they want to protect Carl Rove, or because they fear Carl Rove. It was in that context that I made my comments. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Kerry's medals.
I'm tired of the media sitting around waiting to be told things: waiting to be told ABOUT Plame, waiting to be told who told who about who told about Plame...jesus, when will we get some INVESTIGATION? You know, investigative journalism? The thing that makes a free press free? That free press that, you know, is a pillar of any real democratic governance system? All that being said, I hope it's Rove; if it is, no matter how they play it, it's their ass. Give him up? He's gone. Hide him? All those not neo-fascists come down hard.
If you're referring to my comment about the media ignoring whoever outed Plame, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories - it has everything to do with the fact that journalism is dead in this country.
I wouldn't say dead, but I agree that it's certainly getting sick. Still, I wouldn't use this case as an example. Not yet, at least. Do you propose that the media should report the rumor which started this thread? Would that be real journalism to you? Be patient. In spite of all their failings, I am confident that when the Grand Jury reveals their findings about the Plame case, the media will report it.
Newsweek story here. Raises more questions than it answers, I think. Note that Rove is not being identitifed as the person who leaked to Novak, but rather as one of the people that Matt Cooper spoke to about the story. Both the content and the timing of that conversation may be an issue. According to this article from 2004, Rove claimed in his testimony that he only became involved in discussing the Plame case with reporters after it had already hit the news. But, according to the Newsweek article, Cooper spoke with Rove several days before Novak's column was published. So, what exactly was that conversation about?
OK, I'll try to be patient. How long did it take from the time of the break ins at Watergate until Nixon's resignation? Maybe journalism is still alive.
Rove is the guy who bugged his own Texas governor's office during an election so that he could "discover" it and blame it on the opponent. What's so incredible about him planting a fake memo?
I don't think you are looking for journalistic integrity. You are merely hoping for a particular outcome. If it turns out that the story doesn't break the way you want it to break, then you have already established in advance your reasons why it did not. But you have completely discounted the idea that perhaps things didn't happen the way you expect them to have happened. I say, let's see what is supposed to have happened, according to the investigation, and then let's see how the media handles it. Only then can we have a reasonable discussion about it. All that is happening now is that people are using rumors to take shots at those who they don't like.
exactly! i assumed from minute one that he was behind the fake memo, sounds like a textbook rove maneuver to me
Hehe. I knew that some true conspiracy believers were going to come out. Personally, I think it was you, GringoTex. That memo reminded me of a number of your posts.
Ben, Ben, Ben... Don't you know? It's simply not true, as long as a person refuses to believe it. Evidence is for suckers.
Wrong again. I am looking for journalists to actually investigate stories and tell us what is going on. If Rove did indeed leak the Plame's identity, that is an act of treason. It's far worse than what Nixon did.
Trial?!? Why does he get a trial?!? Send his fat ass down to Gitmo for violating Federal laws dealing specifially with American security (in time of war, no less). 50 USC 421 (the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982): “Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.” Also, 18 USC 2388 (the Espionage Act of 1917) was successfully used by President Reagan to prosecute a leaker of classified information.
The key word being 'if'. That is what remains to be discovered. But that is the reason why there is a grand jury investigation. It is possible that the investigation will lead to the administration, which is why the attorney general was right in recusing himself from the case. But at this time it has not yet been established if the connection is there, and who is the responsible party. I think such serious investigations are not supposed to be held in the court of public opinion, based on every rumor that appears on the internet. I am just saying, let the investigation take its course, instead of reacting so strongly and condemning so swiftly based on what appears to be just a provocative accusation. If the investigation is concluded, the results are brought to light, and there is reason to believe that it was not an honest or a competent investigation, yet still the media fails to follow up on the story, then that would be the proper time for us to demand that investigative journalists look into the issue. I think in this case you are getting ahead of yourself. What I don't agree with is that it seems that people here are upset right now that the press is not reporting what amounts to a rumor. I think the opposite, that it would be irresponsible if they did.
http://www.cjrdaily.org/archives/001627.asp Most news organizations -- the Washington Post included -- were devoting lots of resources, lots of coverage, to the campaign fund-raising scandal which grew out of the '96 campaign, and there were a lot of very tantalizing leads in those initial controversies. In the end they didn't seem to lead anyplace all that great. But there were tons of questions raised that certainly, to my mind, merited aggressive coverage. Thank you for playing.
Newsweek is saying it was Rove: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/ So the chubby puppetmaster was outing CIA agents in the field, and sleeping with a gay 'newman' in the Whitehouse, while orchestrating a "National Security and Family Values" platform. You gotta hand it to him.