I know this can be a controversial topic, but I wanted to ask and express my opinion. What is Brazil's biggest 2 team Rivalry? In my "biased"opinion even though biased I just can see anything more powerfully, full of hatred, passion and importance than a Grenal, Inter x Gremio. First lets break it down. Lets eliminate and not even talk about rivalries like Ba-Vi, Bahia x Vitoria which are good rivalries but the teams are 2nd and 3rd tier teams. Let keep it within the Big clubs. That said.... In Rio...obviously there are big rivalries in Rio, BUT it gets watered down by the city have 4 Large clubs. Its not exclusive to 1 classic...if you do the math there are FlaxFlu, FlaxVas, FlaxBota, VasxFlu, VasxBot, BotaxFlu...count them 6 classicos in the City. Grenal is Just 1 that divides the city in half. Also the colors Red and Blue well define the Grenal , the people and the city. In Rio teams share colors taking away that edge also. Dont get me wrong all great classicos but I have to give the edge to the Grenal which is a year long 2 team rivalry. In SP the same thing happens..you have 4 clubs...Corinthians, SP, Palmeiras, Santos. I feel the rivalries are a little more in SP than Rio. In Rio people dont have time to feed the rivalry, they have the Beach! But still even in SP...Corinthians fans for example have to worry about palmeiras....Sao Paulo....Santos....its watered down. By the way in the South Juventude is not a 3rd team in the equation...and few fans consider a Juventude Inter or Juventude Gremio game a classico. The press calls it that but its not. Then we have Minas...which is a similiar setup as Inter and Gremio. Only 2 teams Cruzeiro and Atletico. I simply just don't hear much about this rivalry... and I just dont think it compares. As for the Grenal...why do you think Inter and Gremio both have stadiums that at one point held 100,000 fans (Inters Record is 105k and Gremio is 98k) while most other teams in Brazil dont even have a real stadium? Rivalry. They always wanted to one up the other. In the 50's Gremio built the then 1 tier Olimpico after Inter had hosted WCup games at the Eucaliptos. The new gremio stadium made the Eucaliptos look antient...so in the 60s Inter fans got together and esstential had the Beira Rio Built to surpass Gremio. Then in the 70's Gremio added a 2nd tier to Olimpico to match the Beira Rio's look and relative size. All this was done for the simple reason of Rivalry...one has to do more than the other. The only other big 12 team in Brazil with a large stadium is Sao Paulo...none of the other Rio SP teams with all that population were motivated by such factors. So while I think all classicos mentioned are at a great level of rivalry, I simply do not think anything is as intense as the Grenal rivalry. I'm not even sure if in the world. As a bonus the Grenal has been played 364 time (or so) no other calssico has been played as many times.
Rio may have four big clubs but let look at why Flamengo x Vasco is the biggest rivalry. First off, Fluminense and Botafogo have not won any Libertadores or Mundiais and they only have one national title a piece. Both of these teams have been relegated to the second division. Flamengo and Vasco is a battle between the two biggest fan bases in Rio, which is why it is called the Classico dos milhoes. Flamengo and Vasco have about a combined 25% share of the overall population, totalling 45 M supporters nationwide (typically 34 M to Flamengo and 11 M to Vasco), thus making it also probably the most popular football derby of the world based on those numbers. Most of the times they play, it is in Maracanã, a temple in Brazilian football. They have had many epic battles over the past, especially when the Carioca was harder than most European leagues. They have faced each other in the finals of the Carioca 20 times. Vasco and Fla have also already faced each other twice in the semifinals for the Brasileirao. The rivalry grew when big time players would switch sides. Bebeto, who played for Flamengo first, switched over to Vasco. Later in his career, he came back to Flamengo and the torcida literally kicked him out of the club. Flamengo and Vasco fans always debate over whether Romario is a flamenguista or a vascaino. Flamengo has only 7 wins over Vasco, and think that equilbrium within a rivalry is important. Atletico has 30+ wins over Cruzeiro, that's why that rivalry isn't very important outside of Minas. Here is a list of decisive games Fla x Vasco played over the years: 1944 - Last round decisive (Flamengo 1-0) 1958 - Last round decisive (Flamengo 3-1) 1958 - Final tie-break triangular (super) - 1st-round (Vasco 2-0) 1958 - Final tie-break triangular (super-super) - last-round decisive (Vasco 1-1) 1972 - Final triangular - 1st round (Flamengo 1-0) 1973 - Taça Guanabara (1st turno) - last-round decisive - (Flamengo 1-0) 1973 - Semi-final play-off - decisive (Flamengo 0-0) 1974 - Final triangular - last-round decisive (Flamengo 0-0) 1975 - 3rd turno extra tie-break play-off (Vasco 1-0) 1976 - Taça Guanabara extra tie-break play-off (Vasco 1-1, 5-4 on p.s.) 1977 - 2nd turno extra tie-break play-off (Vasco 0-0, 5-4 on p.s.) 1978 - 2nd turno - last round decisive (Flamengo 1-0) 1979 - Final octogonal - decisive (Flamengo 3-2) 1981 - Final play-offs (3 matches: Flamengo 0-2, 0-1 and 2-1) 1982 - Taça Guanabara extra tie-break play-off (Flamengo 1-0) 1982 - Final triangular - last-round decisive (Vasco 1-0) 1983 - Campeonato Brasileiro - quarter-finals (Flamengo 2-1, 1-1) 1984 - Final triangular - 2nd round (Flamengo 1-0) 1986 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Vasco 2-0) 1986 - Final play-offs (3 matches: Flamengo 0-0, 0-0, 2-0) 1987 - Final triangular - last-round decisive (Vasco 1-0) 1988 - 3rd turno quadrangular - last-round decisive (Vasco 3-1) 1988 - Final play-offs (2 matches: Vasco 2-1, 1-0) 1989 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive to Flamengo only (Flamengo 3-1) 1989 - Taça Rio (2nd turno) - last-round decisive to Flamengo only (Vasco 2-1) 1992 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Vasco 1-1) 1992 - Campeonato Brasileiro - semi-final quadrangular (Flamengo 1-1, 2-0) 1994 - Final quadrangular - (2 matches : Vasco 1-2, 1-1) 1996 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Flamengo 2-0) 1996 - Taça Rio - last-round decisive (Flamengo 0-0) 1997 - Taça Rio - decisive to Vasco only (Vasco 1-0 by WO) 1997 - Campeonato Brasileiro - semi-final quadrangular (Vasco 1-1, 4-1) 1998 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Vasco 2-0 by WO) 1999 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Flamengo 2-0) 1999 - Taça Rio - last-round decisive (Vasco 2-0) 1999 - Final play-offs (2 matches: Flamengo 1-1, 1-0) 2000 - Final play-offs (2 matches: Flamengo 3-0, 2-1) 2001 - Taça Guanabara - semi-final play-off (Flamengo 1-0) 2001 - Final play-offs (2 matches: Flamengo 1-2, 3-1) 2003 - Taça Guanabara - last-round decisive (Vasco 1-1) 2004 - Taça Guanabara - semifinals (Flamengo 2-0) 2004 - Taça Rio - last-round decisive to Vasco only (Vasco 2-1) 2004 - Final play-offs (2 matches: Flamengo 2-1, 3-1) 2006 - Copa do Brasil - final play-offs (Flamengo 2-0 1-0) EDIT: I would rank the top 3 rivalries like this: 1) Fla x Vas 2) Grenal 3) Corinthians x Palmeiras Grenal took a bit of a knock when Grêmio fell to the segunda divisão..
I think Gremio is 2nd Division doesnt effect the rivalry other than actually adding an extra reason to tease Gremio fans and that in 2005 Gremio and Inter didnt play once. See I always sensed at a distance that Fla Flu was the biggest carioca classic..so you see just that already taints the Fla Vasco rivalry,...see how too many teams in 1 city weakens the rivalries...or at least the extremeness of it.
I think each one will choose the Clássico that your team is involved. In this case it's impossible to don't take the subjective from your opinion. Anyways...for me the biggest clássico is the Choque-Rei, Palmeiras vs São Paulo. My rank: 1st Choque-Rei 2nd Flamengo vs Vasco 3rd Grenal
If you're going to include Palmeiras in there, it has to be against Corinthians. There is just way more history in that rivarly. With the ascension of Sao Paulo in the 80s, I think that Sao Paulo x Corinthians is a bigger classico in SP. As for the whole country or even the whole world, I don't think you can fairly judge because everything is so subjective.
CAJU Yes! Caxias x Juventude it's the best "Clássico" in the whole world, just why i'm a Juventude's fan and that is enough!
I THINK IS LIKE THIS SAO PAOLO-PALMEIRAS SAO PAOLO-CORINTHIANS FLA-FLU VASCO-FLAMENGO INTER-GREMIO CRUZEIRO-MINERO and yeah you guys have many clasicos but htose are the main ones i think
Like you stated, it's a loaded question. Every state/ reigon will have theirs. In Pernambuco, probably Sport-Nautico, although any of the 'classicos' involving Sport, Nautico, or Santa Cruz gets a big turn out. In Caruaru, the classico is two teams few people outside of Brasil, or even Pernambuco have heard of: Porto-Central. Sure, it may not be a big deal to anyone outside of Caruaru, but that game is life or death for their fans. Another example is Vitoria-Bahia. Few people are interested outside of Bahia or the northeast. Alagoas has it's rivalries in their state championship too. In fact, I know of many people who follow their state championship (especially here in the Northeast) very closely, but follow Brasilerao only when one of their teams is in it.
FLAMENGO x vasco. PERIOD. Even when they are not playing against each other ... I'm not sure about the year, but I do clearly remeber a Brasileiro (I think it was in 1992) when if Vasco would loose to São Paulo (in São JANUÁRIO!!), Flamengo would not qualify to the finals, or semi-finals ... Since Flamengo was winning its match (and qualifying), Vasco supporters were actually askig their team to loose to São Paulo ... AT HOME !!! I would wish the same if the situation was the opposite ... even if we had to loose 10x0 ! Eurico Miranda (arghhh) always say: playing against Flamengo is another championship inside the Brasileiro. But I have to say that it is getting more and more less fun to play against Vasco ... they simply can't bet us in any final !!!
I agree that Grenal and AtleticoxCruzeiro are intense because both cities are cities of two teams (not considering America Mineiro), but you also have to agree that Flamengo, Vasco, Corinthians, Botafogo, etc, have more supporters outside their states than others, so derbies involving those teams attract more attention over the country. In particular, Flamengo, the biggest number of supporters in Brazil. I prefer FlaxFlu game among any other, but I admit that FlamengoxVasco is now the biggest derby in town.
I insist nothing compares to the endless fight between Inter and Gremio. Nothing. Theres fireworks when Inter or Gremio loses ..from the other side...
Everyone is going to end up saying that the rivalry their team is involved in is the largest. You should have seen this coming SS
Vasco x Flamengo. all derbies are great derbies, but vasco x flamengo is the only that is a really national wide derby. são paulo x corinthians is nationally too but corinthians supporters considering palmeiras their great rival.
Grenal rivalry is so big that NO ADVERTISING with red colors is allowed inside Olimpico, and NO ADVERTISING with blue colors is allowed inside Beira Rio. COCA COLA ads are BLUE in Olimpico. Banrisul ads are RED in Beira Rio...