The Big USA World Cup Recap: data-infused analysis of everything

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dward1, Dec 7, 2022.

  1. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Right now Jedi is significantly above the next gen fullbacks (Scally, Reynolds, Tolkin, JoGo, Wiley). Speaking aspirationally, it would great if one of them could close the gap and give us some options. Options are always a good thanag.
     
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  2. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The part of Pepi's game I like the most are the deft little flicks. They are risky and usually lead to turnovers. But that is what we want from our forwards and that was glaringly missing in the WC.
     
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  3. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Something else. And this has been a problem the entire tenure of G. The supportive runs are awful. Complete disconnect between the midfield and the attack. Hence calls for an ACM.

    Didn't we lead the WC in crosses thru 4 games? Well for a team setup to cross an astronomical amount, we had very few runners in the box to connect with. Never mind if that was the intent it would be more of an argument to bring Pefok.

    Now look at England crossing. They have 3-4 runners in the box. It's not because they're better. That's just tactical intent. What's better is their players' ability to finish.

    McKennie at Juve makes great runs in the box. Reyna at BVB also makes great runs as a threat in the box and is a pretty dynamic trailing finisher. Both were complete non factors in that respect under G.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Agree. He's 19, and to put him on point for defending in the WC is definitely a challenge. I think a lot of folks overrate him here right now though I expect him to be quality in the next cycle. He's just got the defensive intensity -- he sort of reminds me of young Jedi in that he still makes mistakes but the tools are all there.

    That said, the reason why I push it is that Jedi was not good offensively for us. We covered the CBs with MMA, so we really only had 5 attackers -- the late runs by CMs were absent. But our CF sucked, so we had 4 attackers. But Jedi was pretty damn poor, so we had three attackers...

    I think we can score with five primary attackers + occasional CM stuff. I don't think you NEED a CAM or a sixth guy. But you actually need contributions from those five, especially if you pull back your CMs.

    If we played Scally at RB, I think he'd be a better stylistic fit with a Reyna at RW than Dest is. Those two could interplay well but no one is making endline runs. Scally can play the high and wider role at RB.
     
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  5. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    We crossed into very static situations. It is always better to cross into dynamic situations where players are making runs into the box.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I would have liked to see Vazquez as well. I don't think his ball skills match up, but I actually think what we needed a lot more of was like 2019 Zardes. Did we have anyone who would make annoying run after run after run into the box? Someone that pulls anyone or opens up space? Our CFs are so static at times.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The late arriving CM has been a staple of Berhalter's tactics for a long time. It's how Lletget got all his goals and a lot of McKennie's value. In fact, Berhalter was using McKennie this way before Juve figured it out.

    That tactic changed for this World Cup, and I think it was defensive cover for Ream and Zimmerman.

    I don't know if they needed it, but I suspect a lot of defensive tactical shifts we've done have been to protect the CBs.
     
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  8. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Occasional mistimed runs is on the players.

    A pattern of mistimed runs to static options- which I agree with- is a tactical failure and a byproduct of poor coaching.

    In a well schooled team runs are supposed to be timed off the ball being advanced to certain zones and certain channels filled. And the player with the ball should know which players are filling certain channels. That component is absent from us.
     
  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Robinson and Richards can get healthy and get into form they'll at least not require that level of protection at center back.
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    1600535432948744193 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep. That's the tactical cascade.

    In general, I think the other two are at LB and CF. Berhalter really put a lot on Jedi offensively, and he's been very erratic. A viable question is whether you sit him back / take him out for a more defensive player and add an attacker in his place. Somewhat like how Berhalter played in 2019.

    You look at our five main attacking pieces: Pulisic, Dest, Weah, Jedi and CF. The first three play their roles very well. But Jedi was not strong offensively this WC and CF was actively bad.

    If you can solve those issues, the offense provided from Wes and Musah -- #6 / #7 in attack suddenly seems much more sufficient. Or you shift LB and CM on the offensive role spectrum. Or fix CF.
     
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  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Vanney is a "patience" guy, in case people are interested in his passing / possession type play for USMNT. (I'm refering to the theme in Muller's analysis on the Athletic which you linked).

    In regard to the question is 'iran really that bad", they ceded that space which is crucial to McKennie getting time/space on the ball to execute the diagonal ball to Dest on the goal. That space was always going to be hard to defend in their defensive style but they made no effort. Compare it to how Dutch played.

    Looks like Berhalter was trying to figure out what McKennie's position is. He moved 3 times in group, they said. For me, he is turning into a long passer and is best used the way Allegri uses him. I.o.w., no, he doesn't excel further up the pitch. He's a bit clumsy and ragged in attack and is best used moving into space and wait for the ball to fall to him and take a shot at goal or run on to a header. Our battering ram is really Arsonson. It's too bad Berhalter didn't use him. Look at how LVG used Klaasen. The "energy off the bench" was a naive Americanism.

    MMA couldn't hold the Dutch defensively which might have justified continuing with it. The space above our cb's was open for each of the Dutch goals. I don't want to turn Adams into a 3rd cb because we need his counterpressing and leadership. I'd rather drop McKennie for a 3rd cb and go with Adams and Musah in central mid which allows us to use Gio in a libero role and I'd drop the Giroud type cf because we don't have one and use Aaronson as the diamond 10 (Klinsmann used Bradley like that, you'll recall).
     
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  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Check out carries into the box (right side) where Laryea appears. He was converted from mid/attacker into wingback at Toronto by Greg Vanney. Didn't catch on at Nottingham Forest. Seems he has some special talent, right?
     
  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You're coming my way, Gogo.
     
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  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    G played McK as a central midfielder. At Juve he is an outside mid (sub set "mezzala"). Big difference.
     
  16. Dward1

    Dward1 Member

    May 29, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wrt the McKennie position and moving around, some data

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    that's not a lot of box-crashing to take shots. I think he has an attacking eye for a pass and a shot and right now there is a lack of bodies up front getting central to do either thing, why I suggested he might be pushed a bit further forward in possession
     
  17. Boysinblue

    Boysinblue Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #42 Boysinblue, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    Gonna say this, for those who don't actively follow analytics twitter and know this guy's history







     
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  18. no exit

    no exit Member

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Semi-disagree. He didn't put it on box score stats but Jedi was one of the few players (along with Weah) willing to make selfless vertical runs. For whatever reason the '22 World Cup team way overindexed "guys who want to drop back and dribble." (This is part of the reason why I think it was a mistake, but not a blunder, to not play Reyna more.)
     
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  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So that's this guy? Yikes

     
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  20. Boysinblue

    Boysinblue Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #45 Boysinblue, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    Also I forgot





    I'm more of a Maradona guy than a Pele guy, I'd say there is a good breadth to this fellow's Twitter (have been following him for a long time), but peak Charlie Kennan was unbeatable

    Yup
     
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  21. Dward1

    Dward1 Member

    May 29, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i also semi disagree also, he did not deliver compared to Dest but Dest might be an absolute top end attacking FB. But I do understand Robinson didn’t completely deliver
     
  22. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Looks like another idiot who knows nothing about IQ tests and assumes they can tell you more than very limited information, and are but a snapshot in time. I just listened to a guy who had an 87 IQ as a kid and now has a PhD in psychology with a specialty in....IQ research.
     
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  23. Dward1

    Dward1 Member

    May 29, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can we delete these posts and keep it about us World Cup and going forward? I’m fine to private message anyone about other topics but it’s not related to this topic and this thread is a very good one
     
  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you "SaturdayOnCouch"?
     
  25. Boysinblue

    Boysinblue Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    xbhaskarx repped this.

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