Interesting interview with Segarra in March 1959, in which he explains why he prefers to play as a midfielder rather than as a left-back defender.
I was thinking in Segarra as a Right Back. But, he seems to prefer Midfielder role, since the defender role in his days was a static role, just focusing in defending and marking his zone.
Exactly, that's it. I'm checking from the line-ups that the left-back position at Barcelona was very well covered by Sigfrido Gracia and that the Gensana-Segarra midfield was working really well. In the coming weeks / months I will keep going back in time to see when Segarra changes position.
Continuing with Marca's survey to choose the 50 best Spanish footballers between 1938 and 1988, today it is time to reveal the 100 most voted. Some surprising inclusion (Andrinúa, Clemente, Landáburu, Eloy or LLorente) and other important absences.
Therefore, between 101 and 200 would be: Goalkeepers: Abel, Juanito Alonso, Betancort, Esnaola, Reina and Urruti. Defenders: Alesanco, Aparicio, Arteche, Baquero I, Capón, Gajate, Gonzalvo II, Juan Carlos, Julio Alberto, Larrañaga, Lesmes II, Lopez Recarte, Marcelino, Marquitos, Quique Sánchez Flores, Rifé, Sanchís I and Violeta. Midfielders: Arencibia, Arza, Bustingorri, Calderé, Campos, De Andrés, Eusebio, Gabilondo, Gensana, Germán (Las Palmas), Guedes, Igoa, Ipiña, Leal, Marina, Marsal, Mauri, Mesa, Parra, Pasieguito, Rojo II, Pachi Salinas, Santisteban, Segarra, Quique Setién, Silva, Urbano, Uriarte, Villar and Venancio. Forwards: Aguilar, Pichi Alonso, Argote, Arieta I, Arieta II, Barinaga, Becerra, Beguiristáin, Manolín Bueno, Campanal I, Cholo, Churruca, Emilín García, Escudero, Francisco, Fusté, Gabino, Gárate (A. Bilbao), Idígoras , Iraragorri, Isidro, José María, Loren, Marañón, Marcos, Marianín, Martín (Osasuna), Mateos, Megido, Miguel, Mundo, Onésimo, Ramón, Rincón, Suárez (Celta), Uralde, Valdez, Valverde, Vavá and Villa.
In my personal opinion, in addition to the already mentioned absences of Lángara or Zubieta, I would add those of Olivella, Reija, Arteche (A. Bilbao) and Tejada (screened after the second phase) and Alesanco, Julio Alberto, Mauri, Segarra, Beguiristáin, Iraragorri and Mundo (screened in the third phase)
I insert here the digitized images of the final results of the Brand macro-survey. In the first image, the position and votes received by the first 50 and in the second, the rest up to 100. From then on, they never published the total votes.
Very interesting the classification of the newspaper Marca, I did not know it. Regarding the best footballers in the history of Spain, although I have tried several times, I am not able to make a definitive list but I am clear about the first 7 that in chronological order they would be: - Ricardo Zamora - Francisco Gento - Luis Suarez - Iker Casillas - Xavi Hernandez - Andres Iniesta - Sergio Ramos Ramos is the last one that I have included in the list and he is a player with whom I have always been quite critical of his defensive performances but I must admit that in recent years my perception of him has changed a lot for two reasons well known by those of us who follow soccer: - His scoring ability that makes up for his possible defensive "shortcomings". Ramos in European Club Finals (or Club World Cups finals) is one of the top scorers of all time (in terms of European teams) and many of those goals have been decisive for his team to end up lifting the title of champion. And when I say one of the top scorers, it is that he is at the level of Messi, Cristiano or Di Stéfano, which in addition to being meritorious in itself has a huge plus for being a defender. - His leadership capacity is one of the most powerful that I have seen in a player. Behind these 7 players and until completing a Top-10 could enter Raúl, Zarra and Pirri. On the other hand, I clarify that when making this list I am not taking into account other players who, although they have played with the Spanish team, did so before in their country of origin, such as Kubala, Di Stéfano and Puskas.
Me alegra saber que hay más personas interesadas en hacer un ránking de jugadores españoles de todos los tiempos. No sé si has localizado un hilo que empecé para ir analizando los mejores temporada por temporada con la intención de ir acumulando los resultados. Me gustaría saber tu opinión y si estarías interesado en colaborar con datos. Saludos. I'm glad to know that there are more people interested in ranking Spanish players of all time. I do not know if you have located a thread that I started to analyze the best season by season with the intention of accumulating the results. I would like to know your opinion and if you would be interested in collaborating with data. Regards.
Hola Titanlux, sí, localicé tu hilo ayer si no estoy equivocado y me parece de un mérito tremendo el curro que estás haciendo, enhorabuena. Sobre lo de colaborar por mi parte de momento lo voy a dejar a un lado ya que por lo general yo no soy muy activo en los foros y entiendo que ese enorme proyecto necesita una continuidad que yo desafortunadamente no puedo ofrecer. De todas formas sí en algún momento puntual puedo aportar algo interesante al hilo lo haré con mucho gusto. Hello Titanlux, yes, I located your thread yesterday if I am not mistaken and the work you are doing seems of tremendous merit, congratulations. As for collaborating on my part for the moment, I will put it aside since in general I am not very active in the forums and I understand that this huge project needs continuity that I unfortunately cannot offer. Anyway, if at some point I can contribute something interesting to the thread, I will do it with great pleasure.
1 - Xavi 2 - Suarez 3 - Iniesta 4 - Raúl 5 - Gento 6 - Casillas 7 - Hierro 8 - Zamora 9 - Puyol 10 - S. Ramos 11 - Amancio 12 - D. Silva 13 - Pirri 14 - X. Alonso 15 - Piqué 16 - Cesc 17 - Míchel 18 - Busquets 19 - Villa 20 - Torres 21 - Guardiola 22 - Butragueño 23 - Gordillo 24 - Basora 25 - Zarra 26 - Zubizarreta 27 - Samitier 28 - De Gea 29 - L. Enrique 30 - M. Vázquez 31 - Iríbar 32 - Quincoces 33 - L. Aragonés 34 - Arconada 35 - Camacho 36 - Thiago 37 - Pedro Rodríguez 38 - Quini 39 - Sanchís (son) 40 - Guti 41 - Segarra 42 - Migueli 43 - Valdés 44 - Alba 45 - J. Martínez 46 - Isco 47 - Del Sol 48 - Ramallets 49 - Santillana 50 - D. Costa 51 - Valerón 52 - Mata 53 - Maceda 54 - J. Navas 55 - Mendieta 56 - Bakero 57 - Lángara 58 - Goiko 59 - Cañizares 60 - J. Guerrero 61 - Joaquín 62 - Cazorla 63 - Carvajal 64 - Sergi 65 - Buyo 66 - Nadal 67 - Arza 68 - Juanito 69 - César 70 - Ferrer 71 - J. Salinas 72 - M. Senna 73 - Gárate 74 - Donato 75 - Zoco 76 - Koke 77 - Collar 78 - Azpilicueta 79 - Garay 80 - Lobo Carrasco 81 - Dani Bazán 82 - Caminero 83 - Reina (son) 84 - Morientes 85 - Morata 86 - Vicente 87 - Pahíño 88 - Pichichi 89 - Reyes 90 - Ufarte 91 - Fran 92 - Amavisca 93 - Julio alberto 94 - Baraja 95 - Rexach 96 - Gaínza 97 - Kiko 98 - Asensi 99 - Etxeberría 100 - V. muñoz Another players I valued but didn't make the top100 -in order-: - Abelardo - Gabi - Callejón - De la Peña - López Ufarte - Peiró - Larrañaga - Alfonso - Salgado - Mundo - Olivella - Negredo - Tristán - Aspas - Albelda - Rivilla - Zamora (R. Sociedad) - Belauste - Aduriz - Munitis - Arteta - Helguera - Marcial - De Pedro As I said in another thread, I did the top with my own mathematical method what maybe benefits modern players because it's easier for them catching titles and receiving more points. I would love to see your opinion on this.
Ferenc Puskas took Spanish nationality in 1962(aged 35 years old) It is very arguable that what Puskas achieved as an individual between the years 1962-1966 is at least equivalent to the very best phases of iniesta/Raul 2× pichichi 1962/63 and 1963/64 European cup top scorer 1963/64 Hattrick in European cup final 1961/62 http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=1961-1962#country Hattrick vs Barcelona(nou camp) 27th January 1963 https://www.transfermarkt.com.mt/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2414575 Hattrick vs Barcelona(Bernabéu) 15th December 1963 https://www.transfermarkt.com.mt/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2414286 Scored the winning goal in a 2-1 victory against Barcelona(nou camp) 30th March 1964 https://www.transfermarkt.com.mt/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2414408 Winning goal against benfica in the 1964 European cup QF https://www.transfermarkt.com.mt/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2263080 2× world soccer team of the year 1962 1963 At the very least we can say Puskas is the Hungarian GOAT in addition to being one of the top 10 players of all time to have represented the Spanish NT Puskas 1962-64 >peak Raul/Iniesta No doubt about this IMO
Buena lista compañero. Como todo es subjetivo, algunos jugadores se podrían colocar un poco más arriba o un poco más abajo, pero todos los que nombras son susceptibles de poder situarse en esa lista de los mejores de la historia. Solo una pregunta, ¿cómo es que has incluido en la lista a Marcos Senna, Diego Costa y a Donato cuando me imagino que no incluyes a Di Stéfano, Puskas, Kubala o Santamaría por su condición de nacionalizados? Nice list mate. Since everything is subjective, some players could be placed a little higher or a little lower, but all those you name are likely to be placed on that list of the best in history. Just one question, how is it that you have included Marcos Senna, Diego Costa and Donato in the list when I imagine that you do not include Di Stéfano, Puskas, Kubala or Santamaría due to their status as nationalized?
I know Puskas’ greatness and I have him in my overall top 10 ever. Simply I didn’t rate him as spanish. When I go for a top of a certain country I use the the first NT they played or place of birth if they didnt play with the NT. That’s also the answer for Senna, Donato and D. Costa. P.s: good stuff about Puskas mate
Ferenc Puskas is as Spanish as Euesbio was Portuguese as French as Thierry Henry(Guadeloupe)as Italian as Mauro Camoranesi(or altafini,ballotelli etc) Or as someone mentioned as Spanish as Diego Costa You can be a legend of 2,3,4 etc different clubs Why not international teams if the circumstances permit it? Puskas was considered a vastly superior legend of Spain compared to even Luis Suarez( by a margin of 644 points according to rsssf) A Landslide victory http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html#spanpoy Its great work you did anyways so props for the contribution and effort you put it Many people here from what ive read consider Luis Suarez to be a worthy winner of the 1960 ballon dor(even in an era where non Europeans would be eligible) This is with competitors as Alfredo di Stefano,Pele, Puskas,sivori etc These are all unanimously considered to be heavyweights of their era As great as Xavi was i think it is doubtful he could beat prime versions of any of those players i just mentioned As with any major list it becomes extremely subjective the futher you go down I think most people would concur with your top 10(with just a few reservations that have already been covered)
I do it in that way because I dont want to have the same player in different countries. I have the data of the players with his respective points and then I order it by position, nationality, etc. It’s a personal way of having everything clearer for me, hehe. I have Puskas 1st in my personal BdO in 1960 and Suárez 3rd. I feel that Puskas’ time with Real Madrid is very underrated, he surpassed Di Stefano’s level in some moments. About Suárez and Xavi I think the first one’s prime is a bit superior because of his offensive contribution. Another strong year for Suárez is 1964 when he was a legit contender for a world BdO.
During the years 1942 and 1945, Marca Weekly interviewed 62 retired soccer players. In these interviews, the respondents were asked to name the ideal XI of all time. In most cases, the respondents named in order and according to the system in use (2-3-5) the eleven they were asked to name. In some cases, the respondent said more than one name in one of the one name in one of the positions and others gave 2 different XIs. All this is written down in this table (I put a screenshot to show you how it looks like). I will draw percentages, compare with the XI that I have been proposing in the thread https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/annual-ranking-of-spanish-footballers.2112645/ I will make some comments and try to come to some tentative conclusion. Durante los años 1942 y 1945, el Semanario Marca entrevistó a 62 futbolistas retirados. En esas entrevistas se les pedía a los encuestados el XI ideal de todos los tiempos. En la mayoría de los casos, los encuestados nombraban por orden y según el sistema al uso (2-3-5) los once que se les pedía. En algún caso, el encuestado decía más de un nombre en alguna de las posiciones y otros dieron 2 XI diferentes. Todo ello está anotado en esta tabla (pongo pantallazo para que se vea cómo es). Sacaré porcentajes, compararé con los XI que he ido proponiendo en el hilo https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/annual-ranking-of-spanish-footballers.2112645/ haré algunos comentarios e intentaré llegar a alguna conclusión provisional.
We would speak of a classic XI: Zamora; Ciriaco, Quincoces, Samitier, Meana, Peña, Piera, Luis Regueiro, Alcántara and Gorostiza. It must be taken into account that these surveys were carried out between 1942 and 1945, so the votes for the players of the 40's are minimal. In relation to "my" "A" team between 1920-21 and 1960 there are only 4 matches, the logical ones of Zamora, Quincoces, Samitier and Luis Regueiro, the best in their positions up to 1960 with almost total certainty. Ciriaco clearly wins out over Vallana, as it is obvious that, given his perfect understanding with Quincoces and Zamora, for many it was an inseparable defense. Another thing would be to compare Vallana individually with Ciriaco... Meana is chosen by a small margin over Gamborena, despite the fact that the career of Meana's career was very short due to a very serious injury. As for Puchades, Basora, César and Gaínza, given that they had only been playing for a very short time, logically playing time, logically they cannot enter the ideal team of the respondents. Lángara is very close to Gaspar Rubio, judging by the specialists one of the greatest geniuses of the Spanish soccer, but as already mentioned in the aforementioned thread, it must be taken into account that in these years, Lángara had been out of Spain for quite a long time. Alcántara comes out on top in this poll as he surely would have if we had taken into account his career from the beginning. It is also true that if we add to Gamborena's percentage those given to him as a right or left wing, he would go up to 40%, beating Meana. Hablaríamos de un XI de los más clásico: Zamora; Ciriaco, Quincoces, Samitier, Meana, Peña, Piera, Luis Regueiro, Alcántara y Gorostiza. Hay que tener en cuenta que estas encuestas se llevaron a cabo entre 1942 y 1945, con lo cual las votaciones a los futbolistas de los años 40 son mínimas. En relación con "mi" equipo "A" entre 1920-21 y 1960 hay solo 4 coincidencias, las lógicas de Zamora, Quincoces, Samitier y Luis Regueiro, los mejores en sus puestos hasta 1960 con casi total seguridad. Ciriaco se impone claramente a Vallana, pues lo obvio es que, dado que se entendía a la perfección con Quincoces y Zamora, para muchos fue una defensa inseparable. Otra cosa sería, comparar individualmente a Vallana con Ciriaco… Meana es elegido por poco margen sobre Gamborena, a pesar de que la carrera de Meana fue muy corta por una gravísima lesión. Por lo que se refiere a Puchades, Basora, César y Gaínza, dado que estos llevaban muy poco tiempo jugando, lógicamente no pueden entrar en el el equipo ideal de los encuestados. Lángara se queda muy cerca de Gaspar Rubio, a juzgar por los especialistas uno de los mayores genios del fútbol español, pero como ya se comentó en el hilo anteriormente mencionado, a lo que hay que tener en cuenta que en estos años, Lángara llevaba fuera de España bastante tiempo. Alcántara se impone en esta encuesta como seguramente lo habría hecho si hubiéramos tenido en cuenta su carrera desde el principio. También es cierto que se sumamos al porcentaje de Gamborena los que se le dieron como ala derecha o izquierda se iría hasta el 40 % ganándole la partida a Meana.
During 1973 and 1975, As Color interviewed 75 retired Spanish footballers of all time. In these interviews, the respondents were asked for the ideal XI they would choose. Although the tendency of the first respondents was a 2-3-5 little by little they were opting for a 3-2-5. I think only one chose a 4-3-3. Some said more than 11 names, even mixing positions. Although it doesn't seem to me to be a survey from which many conclusions can be drawn, it is true that, in general, they preferred the players with whom they had faced. I am struck by how few votes Samitier received. I have a theory, but I'm going to save saying it. Durante los años 1973 y 1975, el As Color entrevistó a 75 futbolistas españolesde todos los tiempos, pero retirados. En esas entrevistas se les pedía a los encuestados el XI ideal que escogerían. Si bien la tendencia de los primeros encuestados era un 2-3-5 poco a poco se iban decantando por un 3-2-5. Creo que solo uno eligió un 4-3-3. Algunos decían más de 11 nombres, incluso mezclando posiciones. Aunque no me parece una encuesta de la que se puedan extraer muchas conclusiones, sí es cierto que, en general, preferían los futbolistas con los que esos encuestados se habían enfrentado. Me llama poderosamente la atención los pocos votos de Samitier. Tengo una teoría, pero me voy a ahorrar decirla.
The ideal XI according to a 2-3-5 system would be: Zamora; Ciriaco, Quincoces; Cilaurren, Gamborena, Puchades; Epi, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri and Gento. Opting for a 3-2-5: Zamora; Ciriaco, Garay, Quincoces; Cilaurren, Puchades; Epi, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri and Gento. El XI ideal según un sistema 2-3-5 sería: Zamora; Ciriaco, Quincoces; Cilaurren, Gamborena, Puchades; Epi, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri y Gento. Optando por un 3-2-5: Zamora; Ciriaco, Garay, Quincoces; Cilaurren, Puchades; Epi, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri y Gento.
I remember all those clippings I posted at the beginning of the thread, the one that after naming hundreds of players is summarized in two teams between 1920 and 1936 and one between 1939 and 1954. 1920-36 A: Zamora; Zabalo, Quincoces; Samitier, Gamborena, Peña; Vantolrá, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri and Gorostiza. It would be the one chosen by me in this period with the change of Ciriaco for Zabalo and Piera in place of Vantolrá. 1920-1936 B: Blasco, Ciriaco, Quesada; Cilaurren, Meana, Lecue; Lazcano, Goiburu, Monjardín, Alcántara and Acedo. 1939-1954: Ignacio Eizaguirre; Gabriel Alonso, Parra, Aparicio; Gonzalvo III, Puchades; Epi, Panizo, Zarra, Herrerita or César and Gaínza. I would only put Garay in place of Parra, Basora for Epi and César better than Herrerita. Recuerdo todos esos recortes que puse al principio del hilo, el que tras nombrar cientos de jugadores se resumen en dos equipos entre 1920 y 1936 y uno entre 1939 y 1954. 1920-36 A: Zamora; Zabalo, Quincoces; Samitier, Gamborena, Peña; Vantolrá, Luis Regueiro, Lángara, Iraragorri y Gorostiza. Sería el elegido por mí en este período con el cambio de Ciriaco por Zabalo y Piera en lugar de Vantolrá. 1920-1936 B: Blasco, Ciriaco, Quesada; Cilaurren, Meana, Lecue; Lazcano, Goiburu, Monjardín, Alcántara y Acedo. 1939-1954: Ignacio Eizaguirre; Gabriel Alonso, Parra, Aparicio; Gonzalvo III, Puchades; Epi, Panizo, Zarra, Herrerita o César y Gaínza. Muy acertado también este XI; solo pondría a Garay en lugar de Parra, Basora por Epi y César mejor que Herrerita.
One more piece of information related to the Marca macro-survey. Let's remember that it included players who had their career or most of it between 1938 and 1988. What interests me in this sense right now is to stay with those who correspond to the period 1938-1960, which after all are the ones I have analyzed along with those from 1920 to 1938. Well, taking into account the first 100, there are 23 that meet this criterion. Taking out the nationalized players and in order of voting, I would get these 23: 1.- Gaínza. 2.- Zarra 3.- Ramallets 4. Molowny 5.- Basra 6.- Garay 7.- Panizo 8.- Gorostiza 9.- Cesar 10.- Puchades 11.- Maguregui 12.- Miguel Muñoz 13.- Ignacio Eizaguirre 14.- Campanal II 15.- Carmelo 16.- Biosca 17.- Gonzalvo III 18.- Zárraga 19.- Iriondo 20.- Pahíño 21.- Epi 22.- Herrerita 23.- Quincoces II With all this data, I will go back to https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/annual-ranking-of-spanish-footballers.2112645/ and make a summary of the best players from the period 1920-21 to 1959-60 by positions on the field. With this, I'll ditch 40 years and move on, finally, to the 1960-61 season. If anyone has anything to contribute, please do so. Un dato más relacionado con la macroencuesta de Marca. Recordemos que en ella cabían jugadores que tuvieron su carrera o la mayor parte de la misma entre 1938 y 1988. Lo que me interesa en este sentido ahora mismo es quedarme con los que se corresponden con el periodo 1938-1960, que al fin y al cabo son los que he analizado junto a los de 1920 a 1938. Pues bien, tomando en cuenta los 100 primeros, hay 23 que cumplen ese criterio. Quitando a los jugadores nacionalizados y por orden de votación, me saldrían estos 23: 1.- Gaínza. 2.- Zarra 3.- Ramallets 4. Molowny 5.- Basora 6.- Garay 7.- Panizo 8.- Gorostiza 9.- César 10.- Puchades 11.- Maguregui 12.- Miguel Muñoz 13.- Ignacio Eizaguirre 14.- Campanal II 15.- Carmelo 16.- Biosca 17.- Gonzalvo III 18.- Zárraga 19.- Iriondo 20.- Pahíño 21.- Epi 22.- Herrerita 23.- Quincoces II Con todos estos datos, volveré a https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/annual-ranking-of-spanish-footballers.2112645/ y realizaré un resumen de los mejores jugadores del período 1920-21 a 1959-60 por posiciones en el campo. Con esto zanjo 40 años y pasaría, por fin, a la temporada 1960-61. Si alguien tiene que aportar algo, por favor, háganlo.