The best players of the season 2020/21.

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I appreciate this won’t fit but I don’t think anybody has said that Dias is better than Van Dijk was. The fact is that Van Dijk lost out to the outstanding attacking player of the PL champions. This season the outstanding attacking player is playing on a team who are currently 6th and will probably finish 8th. If Kane was playing for a team in the hunt for trophies then Dias probably wouldn’t win either.
     
  2. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I do feel however that Sterling and Henderson in the previous two seasons won this award for off field actions also which is very clearly stated by the FWA re criteria.

    Sterling would have been a distant second to VVD and Henderson would be no way near KDB if it was just judged for on the field performances.

    Just heard on talksport the 1,2,3 was Dias, Kane, KDB

    Interesting to see PFA results soon that I suspect Dias will win but Kane does get a lot of English player votes and has done in the past in weaker seasons so could get a head.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Congrats to Jorge Mendes for winning it for your player and showing the FWA might be one of the football equivalents of the exposed Golden Globes.

    Your client has a WhoScored rating well below a 7 (6.91). Henry Winter voted in 2019 for Sterling and now with certainty and firmly for Dias.

    1393494070878785537 is not a valid tweet id





    For the record: in all competitions for Liverpool dribbled past 8 times.

    Last years City their defense and points total had won the league with ten points clear as well. Well below 100 points but far ahead of 70 points for the current number two.

    It should have been Bruno, Kane, Gundogan or De Bruyne again.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Carragher literally said Dias is more impressive (although later adding Dias hasn't the pace and it is harder for him). Jermaine Jenas literally said Dias had a bigger impact. This are already two for you.

    As if De Bruyne or Virgil don't do anything in that regard. It leads to myopic and snowball narrative assessments.

    2018-19 Liverpool had won this league by a landslide, even when factoring in the possible effects of the schedule.

    We all know how such PFA/FWA double is going to look in 20 years time.
     
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I think he said he was more impressed given his lack of physical attributes. Again, that is a different thing.
     
  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    #131 comme, May 22, 2021
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
    I don't know how accurate these are but a couple of teams of the season from the Eredvisie



    Okoye; Rensch, Boscagli, Bazoer, Wijndal; Koopmeiners, Gravenberch, Vloet; Berghuis, Giakoumakis, Tadic



    Okoye; Geertruida, Bazoer, Bochniewicz, Wijndal; Koomeiners, Klaasen, Vloet; Berghuis, Giakoumakis, Tadic
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #132 carlito86, May 23, 2021
    Last edited: May 23, 2021




    Lewandowski 2018/19 -2020/21(bundesliga)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/29400/History/Robert-Lewandowski

    Whoscored Average
    7.95

    Suarez 2014/15- 2016/17(la liga)
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/22221/History/Luis-Suárez

    Whoscored average
    7.80


    This is just the league
    In cup competitions(CL or league cup finals there is no comparison)

    I use to think with good reason Suarez was the premier striker of his generation

    However in light of this latest mind boggling achievement im seriously reconsidering my previous position

    Lewandowski has unequivocally just solidified his position as one of the greatest European strikers of all time

    To answer the OP
    If the ballon dor is a calender year award there are only 2 real candidates
    Lionel messi and Robert lewandowski

    The former during large spades of the 2nd half of the campaign has been performing at an all time great level with his production/end product and all round play

    If its a seasonal award this award belongs to lewandowski
    Which in theory would mean he is a 2× consecutive ballon dor winner(including last years cancelled ceremony Where he was a clear frontrunner)

    I think what separates this generation from the previous generation is a unquenchable desire to make history their own
    They are not satisfied with resting on their laurels as many previous generational talents were becoming complacent after reaching the summit


    Lewandowski comes from the same ilk as Cristiano Ronaldo in that sense
    Every season is a new challenge and they are very vocal about it in the press
    They make no secret of their desire to chase down milestones that were previously perceived to be unattainable

    After a season like Lewandowskis last many( in fact the majority) would've gone into a post great season slump
    Not lewandowski who is by all accounts a very hardworking and consummate professional (in addition to his great qualities) which has enabled him to write his name into the history books
    https://www.squawka.com/en/bayern-munich-fitness-transformation-methods-training-nutrition/

    Someone who has gone under the radar is a certain Thomas Muller
    50 assists in his last 2 club seasons and no i didn't make that up either
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/thomas-muller/leistungsdaten/spieler/58358
     
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  8. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Team of the Season in Ligue 1 from Julien Laurens on BT:

    Maignan; Clauss, Marquinhos, Fonte, Henrique; Tchouameni, Paqueta, Savanier; Memphis, Yilmaz, Mbappe
     
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  9. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Team of the Season from Marca:

    Oblak; Navas, Kounde, Savic, Acuna; Llorente, Koke, Canales; Messi, Suarez, Benzema
     
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  10. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    2020/2021 Ligue 1 awards :

    France Football L1 first 11 (based on the étoiles) :
    Navas (PSG, 6)
    Clauss (Lens, 5,87), Fonte (Lille, 5,71), Marquinhos (PSG, 5,75), Perraud (Brest, 5,49)
    S.Fofana (Lens, 5,84), Bourigeaud (Rennes, 5,72)
    Di Maria (PSG, 5,86), Mbappé (PSG, 5,85)
    Yilmaz (Lille, 6,13), Depay (Lyon, 5,79)

    [but Lille always had good solutions of replacement along the season when some players were missing through injury or were in a lesser form]

    Trophées UNFP :

    Best player : Mbappé (PSG) [won it over Yilmaz of Lille)
    Best keeper : Navas (PSG) [over Maignan of Lille]
    Best young player : Tchouaméni (Monaco)
    Best coach : Galtier (Lille). [Kovac of Monaco would be a clear second in the ranking]

    First 11 :
    Navas (PSG)
    Clauss (Lens), Marquinhos (PSG), Kimpembé (PSg), Mandava (Lille)
    André (Lille), Paqueta (Lyon), Tchouaméni (Monaco)
    Mbappé (PSG), Neymar (PSG), Depay (Lyon)

    The big debate is about who had to be elected as the best keeper : Maignan has more clean-sheets, way less defeats and is the champion of France. Navas is of course a great keeper but some think/ say he was elected also based on the UCL campaign and that strictly based on the Ligue 1 season, Maignan deserved it.

    In attack, Yilmaz, with his fighting spirit and his goals, was unable to be elected against super-talent Mbappé in spite of the title (same story as previously but maybe there's a more obvious difference in talent there and without Mbappé, maybe PSG is not 2nd or even 3rd in the league. Whilst Neymar was most of all an absentee this year. The Brazilian has many yellows and 2 red cards. He missed the Cup final through suspension by the way).
     
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  11. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Yeah, Savanier is another one.
    (I was finishing to type when you posted those btw ahah... France and Spain... the Final of the next Euro?)
     
  12. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #138 PuckVanHeel, May 24, 2021
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
    Typically, no appreciation for Botman? Together with Fonte part of the lowest conceding defense in all the top five leagues (although they're positioned fairly deep, hence 10 fewer goals conceded as Liverpool last season). Highest rated Lille player is however Yilmaz on a 5.95. No Lille player is above a 6.




    Admittedly, the KNVB isn't sure either and has excluded him for the extended preliminary euro squad (which a few abroad don't seem to understand). On the other hand, it seems a number of big clubs are interested and it will not be very cheap.

    I don't think he's objectively better as the others to be clear but it does seem he ranks higher in things like 'progressive passes' or 'opponents beaten with a pass or dribble' (which normally tends to draw applause).



    https://breakingthelines.com/player...=rss&utm_campaign=player-analysis-sven-botman
    https://medium.com/@jkregista.6/scout-report-sven-botman-ef166dcfefc0
    https://trusttheprocess.substack.com/p/who-is-sven-botman-a-stats-overview
    https://totalfootballanalysis.com/c...-tactical-analysis-tactics-lille-scout-report

    I'm glad Depay finally gets his dues after snubbed for even the bench in the previous years. Since joining Ligue 1 in 2017 only Mbappe has had a higher goal involvement (133 vs 107) - followed by other two PSG attackers.

    It's noticeable all Lille league titles in their history had input from the Low Countries.
     
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  14. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Here FF says 6,13 for Yilmaz : https://www.francefootball.fr/news/...-type-de-la-saison-2020-21-de-ligue-1/1255456

    Yes, Botman. It's Botman-Fonte actually but an outstanding Marquinhos (that was really a great leader for PSG, which was needed) ousts one or the other from the 11. The experienced Fonte or the rising Botman (great player, great signing), that's complementary. The whole Lille squad has been excellent actually : the players individually, as a team, the coaching... each player could replace another one for similar performances... two or three day match more and perhaps they loose the title but it's 38 games and it is well deserved, no problem. Best collective with very good players. Especially at his age, Botman is really impressive. But same thing can be said about Fonte the other way around. That said, Botman, at his age, looks like a mature player, so probably I'd give him the edge if I had to choose. And he is in the continuity of the previous season.
    If I'm not mistaken, Botman also played on the left, so perhaps his versatility disadvantaged him for this type of elections.
    Also, going for Henrique at LB has to do with the come-back of Monaco in the ranking. Recently Monaco made a strong impression, until the Cup final.
    Personnaly, I think I'd just displace Botman on the left for my TotS or play with only three DF's (Marquinhos, Fonte, Botman).
     
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  15. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    I mean, Celik or Clauss? Perreaud or Caio Henrique?? Or Reinildo Mandava?
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #141 PuckVanHeel, May 24, 2021
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
    WhoScored showed him as central defender in all matches (it's position/action adjusted; Van Nistelrooij is shown as midfielder in almost all matches post 2009) but the heatmap shows him that way indeed. I didn't realize this but you're right it doesn't help.

    https://www.sofascore.com/tournament/football/france/ligue-1/34

    As I said I wouldn't say he is ahead of the others like Fonte, Marquinhos (what I like a lot is the 0 at 'errors leading to goal' and 2 for 'error leading to shot' - just as VvD had for 100 consecutive games when at Southampton) and WhoScored shows him at a 'standard' 7 (maybe it will be higher for a more offensive team) but think he can/will be a good player. With his quality on the ball there is room for a further jump in a more passing oriented team.



    Maybe he'll still make the euro squad if there are further injuries (De Ligt has ankle injury they say). It's a throwback to the 2014WC situation.

    https://www.squawka.com/en/jose-fon...improved-game-ruben-dias-virgil-van-dijk/?amp
     
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  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is an excellent article in Voetbal International about Barcelona's problem (I left out all the graphs and pictures, takes too much time for my liking).

    A new striker is the last thing Barcelona needs

    If the recruitment of Sergio Agüero is the result of the problem analysis of the current year, that promises a new year full of misery for Barcelona. Because the historically bad third place is anything but the result of a failing vanguard.

    Barcelona looks suspiciously like a mediacracy, in which the administrators act on the basis of what the newspapers write. When they suggest that Ronald Koeman's three-defender formation is too defensive, the return to 4-3-3 suddenly becomes a theme. When it comes to Martin Braithwaite's missed opportunity against Celta de Vigo and the alleged mistake of letting go of Luis Suárez, a new top striker is a priority. If Koeman's choices in top matches are disputed, his position is immediately openly at risk. When the press calls for the end of an era, President Joan Laporta announces a total renovation of the selection.

    The problem with this zigzag policy is that success is rarely the result of a popularity contest. Barcelona in particular needs to understand that.

    Because the period of success between 2008 and 2012, which is now so longed for, started with a series of unpopular decisions. The first was to choose the inexperienced Pep Guardiola as trainer over the successful José Mourinho. Star player Ronaldinho was then put on sale. Playmaker Deco also left through the back door. High-profile replacements were not forthcoming. Instead, Barcelona invested in defenders and hard-working midfielders, with Dani Alves, Gerard Piqué and Seydou Keita as successful examples. In addition, Guardiola took two players from Barcelona B to the first team with Sergio Busquets and Pedro.

    Those unpopular decisions followed a year that looked suspiciously like the current one. Barcelona also finished third in 2008 due to dramatic results in top matches and a failed final sprint where the team looked exhausted. The logical solution is the same: provide the selection with fresh blood and invest in the defense.

    If you look at the reports about Barcelona, you must suspect that the Catalans have an insane offensive problem. For months it has been about the possible arrival of Memphis Depay and Sergio Agüero. Koeman, meanwhile, has to defend himself weekly at press conferences about the football that would not be offensive enough. Not to mention Suárez's much-discussed departure.

    The facts are somewhat different. Offensively, Barcelona has had a great season. Bayern Munich is the only top team that has shot between the posts more often. Only the same Bayern and Atalanta Bergamo have scored more often. And oh yes, no team in the five international top competitions has had as much ball possession as Barcelona.

    There is no empirical basis for the idea that Barcelona lost the title due to a failing finish. The graph above shows that Koeman's team not only created the best opportunities, but also finished them exceptionally well. From options that, according to the Opta Sports data model, are good for 74 Expected Goals (you can find the elaboration here), Barcelona scored 85 times. That is 18 more hits than Atlético Madrid and Real Madrid.

    When Barcelona finished second last year, it scored 16 goals more than champions Real Madrid.

    The last time the Catalans did not score the most goals in La Liga was in the 2014/15 vintage. That season in which the treble was won with the vanguard Lionel Messi-Luis Suárez-Neymar. In the successful years under Guardiola, Real Madrid managed to score more often in the competition three out of four times.

    For decades, success at Barcelona has always started with keeping the opponent away from their own goal. By checking the possession of the ball and immediately applying pressure when the ball is lost.

    "It is unlikely how high on the field this team will be when they conquer the ball," Jürgen Klopp once analyzed Guardiola's Barcelona. "And the reason they succeed is that every player participates in pressing. I think Lionel Messi gets the ball back most often when he loses it. If he loses him, he is ready to take him again before the opponent has been able to take in. The players chase as if there is no tomorrow, as if the best part of football is that the opponent has the ball. What that does for them is, in my opinion, the greatest achievement of this team. The best example I've ever seen. '

    While Klopp and Guardiola set to work in Germany and England to further hone this concept, Barcelona seemed to have forgotten the roots of its own success.

    Where Barcelona in 2014/15 started a defensive action on half of the opponent once every 5.5 passes, the number was much higher last season: 9.6. It therefore takes twice as long before a ball is won back. That lack of pressing translates into disastrous defensive figures.

    Barcelona has conceded significantly more goals than Atlético Madrid, Real Madrid and Seville. That corresponds to the underlying Expected Goals stats, which are also worse than those of the rivals.

    This is partly difficult to explain. For example, of all teams in La Liga, Barcelona has conceded the most goals after individual errors. It has also conceded the most big chances after an individual error. At decisive moments, this broke up Koeman's team.

    An important part of the problem can be explained very well. The rear part of the Barcelona team consists of a combination of routine and talents. People in their thirties like Jordi Alba (32), Sergio Busquets (32) and Gerard Piqué (34) run into problems in spaces that are too large. Young players such as Sergiño Dest (20), Óscar Mingueza (22) and Ronald Araújo (22) cannot be expected to have a stable performance curve in their first season as basic strength in a top league. Twenty-somethings Sergi Roberto, Clément Lenglet, Junior Firpo and Samuel Umtiti are also certainly not the footballers who wear a defense. In the midfield, there is one energetic runner in the spirit of Keita or Ivan Rakitic missing those gaps.

    Koeman has tried to overcome this by switching systems. In the first seven games after that conversion, Barcelona only got three goals against, but in the decisive weeks the rearguard turned out to be remarkably vulnerable again. A lead was relinquished against Granada (1-2), Levante (3-3) and Celta de Vigo (1-2).

    "It is a reflection of what has happened to us before in several matches," Koeman acknowledged after the last loss. 'We play well, get chances and then the opponent comes in front of the goal once and you go into the dressing room with a 1-1 score. That takes a lot of mental strength. '

    Barcelona's problem is not a lack of opportunities or goals, but the leaky defense. To fix that, defenders are needed who can play with space in the back. In combination with a midfielder who can boost the pressing.

    Instead, according to reports, Barcelona is aiming with Memphis Depay and Sergio Agüero at two attackers who like to be defensively relieved. That is the impulse that the newspapers are crying out for after Luis Suárez's title, but the last thing Barcelona really needs.

    https://www.vi.nl/pro/analyse/een-nieuwe-spits-is-het-laatste-wat-barcelona-nodig-heeft

    Below this there are a few further comments:

    - Someone suggested David Alaba looks a logical addition. The writer agrees, but he will move to Real Madrid.
    - Whether signing Aguero is done to please Messi. Some further criticism of Messi.
    - That using De Jong in defense makes them missing his energy in midfield, but when in midfield he can't play like he did against Italy (with rushes and more risk) because of the uncertain defense behind him. He knows this.
    - Laporta (and Koeman) themselves probably know Cruijff started with spending/improving the defense (the player Koeman bought), later repeated with Rijkaard and Guardiola.
     
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  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    @PuckVanHeel Did you have any thoughts on the best Eredivisie players of the season?
     
  19. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Interesting Podcast on an alternative team of the season from The Athletic, players who were included in the Team of the Season and anyone who got more than 1 vote from those polled is excluded.

    Excluded list: Fofana, Maguire, Evans, Reece James; Rice, Mount, Grealish, Foden, Bamford, Rashford, Vardy, Calvert-Lewin

    Michael Cox

    Schmeichel; Dallas (Leeds), Lindelof (United), Anderson (Fulham), Targett (Aston Villa); Hojbjerg (Spurs), Westwood (Burnley); Raphinha (Leeds), Pereira (WBA), Bowen (West Ham); Wilson (Newcastle)

    Tom Worville

    Areola (Fulham); Ayling (Leeds), Konsa (Aston Villa), Webster (Brighton), Targett (Aston Villa); Hojbjerg (Spurs), Bissouma (Brighton); Raphinha (Leeds), Pereira (WBA); Iheanacho (Leicester), Watkins (Aston Villa)
     
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  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Classic, Tielemans doesn't get any votes for this. In contrast to his British (and one French) team mates.

    In reality, he is probably one of the best three players of his 5th placed team, with an argument for the best. And the outstanding player in the FA Cup final.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2152826/tielemans-scoops-player-of-the-season-double

    The general influence is also there (not as big as e.g. VvD for Southampton but still substantial - who was ofc also on a handicap compared to the likes of Wan-Bissaka for Palace). Not sure though whether he will end up at an elite club team in his career.

    Typical for the publication that has brought clickbait and fan/demographics based journalism to the next level.

    (The English player I dislike the most, and there aren't many, is the attitude boy Phil Foden - who still isn't trusted in a central position)
     
  21. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    In part that might well be because they've tried to pick very underrated players where possible. Tielemans, as you say, was POTY for the 5th best team.
     
  22. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Speaking to this, Tielemans was nominated as the most underrated player of the season so clearly is highly regarded despite there being players of a higher profile.
     
  23. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Fulham finished 18th in the Premier League and were relegated with 28 points. So 29 points would have been enough to stay up. This is the lowest needed for survival since the league was reduced to 20 teams in 1995/96.

    The old target of 40 points to stay up is well out of date. Only four times in the 26 seasons since 1995/96 have 40 points or more been required. The average is 36.

    To win the league this season, 75 points were needed (Man Utd came second with 74). This is the lowest since Leicester's title in 2015/16 and reflects the bad runs endured by all the leading challengers. The average over the past 26 seasons is 81.

    To finish fourth and clinch a Champions League spot, 67 points were required this season, which is close to the overall average of 66.
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I don't have an opinion since I haven't followed it enough. There are various threads on the subforum but typically on most players there are differing opinions:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forums/the-netherlands.168/
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/euro-2021-squad.2115079/page-7
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/watch-list-midfielders-orange-team.2106809/page-12

    I have not high hopes for the euros. Last year I thought the semi final (and beating one or two elite teams) should be a realistic aim. But now the best player is struck down and missing (who was also not there at various previous lows as the 4-1 against France away), De Boer has question marks over him (looked fine against Italy but bad in others; rather prefer Koeman and even the Spanish papers still see something in him); there are some questionable squad selections (excluding Botman I could understand if then Juste is in, who has the highest top speed in the Bundesliga and also interest from a few top teams - but both are now excluded; he is leaving two of three best right-backs home and gambles Promes can do the job again; some more things). Furthermore, we miss a couple potential players, trained at professional clubs in Holland with Dutch parents, who have switched to other national teams (for marketing reasons and/or other reasons).

    From what I've seen Frenkie de Jong reached the highest peaks this season (two examples are the Italy game and cup final), but also played frequently with the handbrake on. To his credit however, unlike the team in general (which tops the charts in goals and big chances after an individual error) he has very few individual mistakes (2 leading to a shot, 0 to a goal) although he did cause two penalties against (against Getafe and then a handball in the cup). Also last season (2019-20) someone like Van Gaal was generally positive.
     
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  25. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Thank you.

    I see that Dusan Tadic was named the Player of the Season:

    Dusan Tadic voetballer van het jaar | Voetbal | Telegraaf.nl

    Davy Klaassen wins the silver shoe, Donyell Malen of PSV gets the bronze shoe. They have stayed ahead of players such as Ryan Gravenberch, Daley Blind, Teun Koopmeiners, Owen Wijndal and Steven Berghuis
     

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