The best players of the season 2020/21.

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  2. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  3. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    So am I, which is why I think it's a tragedy he's playing for a club as dysfunctional as Barcelona, right now.
     
  4. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    How is it tragic to play for a big club like Barcelona? He’s part of the process in making the team much better.
     
  5. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Barcelona has only gone down hill since he moved there. They're now at risk of losing their greatest ever player.

    If De Jong is a built-your-club-around player then his moment to really shine might be coming soon. If not, then he could be stuck in a team that falls just short of competing the UCL year after year.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Financially it remains a tricky situation (even though such club will never go bankrupt and all sorts of favorable loans/bonds are possible) but I think Barcelona has improved somewhat in recent times. Whether Koeman is the right manager and has the tactical know-how to complete the process, I'm not sure (I had liked it to see him stay at Oranje; unfortunately long-term appointments like Germany has or Del Bosque at Spain have always been impossible the last 60 years), but things has been set in motion. One often voiced theory was/is that he's renewing some things and making some decisions, so that another (Qatar friend Xavi, or a big name manager) doesn't have to do this - the past 20 years he has always said that he wanted to manage Barcelona someday. If he is a placeholder the job is to make the transition easier for the successor. Notice also the uptake in form again by Busquets in recent times, and Messi of course (who after a month of good results by the team found a switch, as acknowledged by Koeman too).

    Central midfielders (or CM/CB hybrids) are rarely the players to build your team around (if you mean it in the same way it's commonly used), no matter how good they are (Xavi, Modric) and regardless of 'modern' tactics or not. Someone like Matthaus was more of an AM when this was arguably the case and before that you had Falcao maybe. If you think about the dominant Roy Keane, then it was pre-injury more like "team around Cantona" and after his knee injury that ship had sailed (same applies to Vieira). It was maybe/plausibly more frequent with the old school liberos. Recently I read a prize winning book about the 1978 World Cup, and Happel elevated Krol as the reference point in the team (in the group phase he wasn't that good, in the final there was almost the winning assist obviously). Even then, it was not really building the team around a player, in particular in the matches on short grass. In the 'Age of Innocence' book there is a quote by Helmut Schon, on the other ten players adapting to Beckenbauer his whims and individualism (as libero, not midfielder; "[He] could not change the style during a game. He played always his own game - others adapted to his great individualism", p. 6). Not to forget that 'building teams around a player' has always been a quite suspicious/anathema concept in the Ajax/Dutch football culture (that has broader reasons), and therefore also when the players start to play abroad. It's not within their fibres (some people/observers like Kuper have therefore suggested that Robben was an atypical player that doesn't fit the dominant template and had to overcome the default tendency/'coaching' to avoid dribbling).
     
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  7. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Koeman is actually doing pretty decent. Winning the league with this Barca would be a great achievement.
     
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hasn't Barcelona always maintain domestic excellence even as they struggle in Europe in recent years?
     
  9. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes, the finance is a worry. I think it's why both Madrid and Barcelona pushed so hard for the launch of the ESL, asap. They want/need the money.

    When I say "build the team around" I certainly meant in a Xavi sort of way, where the team style is dictated by the midfield general, even if it's in support of another greater talent in attack (ie. Messi).
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It is currently more like Modric at his peak in terms of centrality of action. Nevertheless, in passes per game/90 minutes and such - pressing/covering - he's the most central player of his team now (marginally/slightly ahead of Busquets in totality).

    Modric is from what I've seen this season also pretty good; one can now make a case he beats Xavi when it comes to longevity at top level (possibly/probably not peak because Xavi had relative to his peers a higher stamina in his golden window).
     
  11. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    We're getting to that point of the season now when the awards and nominations get sorted out.

    Last night on Monday Night Football, Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher picked out their players of the season in the Premier League.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/...ds-player-signing-team-of-the-season-and-more

    Gary Neville

    Player of the Year: Ruben Dias
    Young Player of the Year: Phil Foden
    Manager of the Year: Pep Guardiola
    Signing of the Year: Edinson Cavani

    Team of the Year: Mendy; Walker, Dias, Maguire, Shaw; Gundogan, De Bruyne, Fernandes; Rashford, Foden, Kane

    Jamie Carragher

    POTY: Dias
    YPOTY: Foden
    MOTY: Guardiola
    SOTY: Tomas Soucek

    Team of the Year: Martinez; Coufal, Dias, Stones, Shaw; Kante, De Bruyne, Fernandes; Son, Kane, Foden
     
  12. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    At the beginning of the season I seem to recall Gary Neville criticising Manchester United's lack of ambition for not splashing out on Gareth Bale.

    Instead, he complained, the club had left things until the last minute and been forced to accept an ageing substitute on a free transfer, who nobody else wanted: Edinson Cavani.
     
  13. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Joao Cancelo's recent form seems to have him forgotten, sadly.
    I thought overall he was the best fullback in the league this season.
     
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  14. Tom Souster

    Tom Souster Member

    Jul 20, 2016
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    In terms of purely Premier league performances over the course of the whole season i'd argue the prem XI should be:

    Martinez
    Walker Maguire Dias Shaw
    Gundogan, De Bruyne, Fernades
    Salah, Kane, Son

    Mount, Grealish, Rice, Rashford, Stones, Cancelo could all warrant a place too.

    I think Champions league performances and recency bias have heavily swayed those teams picked by carragher and neville, or they just make some picks which will draw controversy and engagement.

    Mendy has been solid whilst not being amazing, I think a lot of his olaudits have come because he has not been making howlers like Kepa every few weeks, but he has by no means been poor, just not amazing in my opinion.
    I'm not sure how anyone could not have Gundogan in their team based on league performances, he has been simply world class this season and a huge reason why city ran away with the title. Their best player alongside Dias this season.

    Kante and Foden are there mainly due to recency bias alongside some fantastic Champions league performances imo. Kante was having an average season under lampard but stepped up another level when Tuchel came in. Both fantastic players but in terms of impact over the course of the season I think others have been better:

    Foden has started just 15 games, 27 games in total, with 7 goals 5 assists.
    Salah has started 29, 33 games in total, 20 goals, 4 assists
    Son has started 32, 34 games in total, 17 goals, 10 assists

    Bare in mind the problems Liverpool and Spurs have faced this season with management, injuries, teammates out of form etc. these two have delivered.
     
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  15. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    #115 comme, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021


    This was a useful poll on the same topic from Goalscorer Challenge on Twitter.

    Team of the Season based on the votes given (winner first followed by nominees in order of votes received)

    GK: Martinez; Ederson, Mendy, Meslier
    RB: Cancelo; Coufal, Wan-Bissaka, James
    LB: Shaw; Dallas, Cresswell, Digne
    CB: Stones; Maguire, Fofana, Zouma
    CB: Dias; Konsa, Thiago Silva, Godfrey
    CM: Gundogan; Kante, Rice, Hojbjerg
    CM: De Bruyne; Bissouma, Ward-Prowse, Ndombele
    AM: Fernandes; Mount, Lingard, Maddison
    RW: Salah; Mahrez, Raphinha, Saka
    LW: Son; Foden, Grealish, Rashford
    ST: Kane; Calvert-Lewin, Bamford, Watkins
     
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  16. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    To be fair to him he has since stated he was proved wrong and pleased to be for that matter and had thought the signing would be akin to Falcao and how that worked out.
     
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  17. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I think it's hard to see Cavani as the overall signing of the season, so maybe it's Neville backtracking on his original wrong assessment.
     
  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I've had a look at what the same exercise would look like if using DBS Calcio's sources based on average ratings.

    I'm assuming it's a kind of 3 tier midfield, so anyway I've put one more in a CM/DM role and one more a CM/second AM (although as discussed by the pundits on Sky Gundogan would fit in the latter so maybe that list on Twitter is just meant to be a flat 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3). With that in mind De Bruyne has moved to the AM category too, while Foden can be considered unlucky that Grealish didn't move there instead I guess (in order to get him in the XI since he is only behind Grealish, De Bruyne and Kane for avg rating, while both Henderson and Gundogan are ahead of both Phillips and Rice so I could have presented the midfield differently too...but it's not intentional anti Man City bias or something, just like I say going with more of a 3 tier midfield!), and also that I haven't shifted him to the right wing slot (I think he has been more prominent on the left though hasn't he?). If I shuffled things more towards a double pivot set-up then I think McGinn into the fray and Rodri out of it could be the main change.

    Lingard currently doesn't have the required number of appearances to make the cut for DBS Calcio's purposes but could do with a few more games I guess, and his average rating is slightly above Grealish's even as the top one overall it's worth noting. Neto's average is higher than that of James or Salah, but right wing hasn't really been consistently his position has it? Eze of Crystal Palace has played even less there (not his most frequent position), while Armstrong of Southampton's average is a little below that of James and Salah anyway and he played less games at RW overall than James I guess too, after having played a lot in midfield lately. James does have enough registered appearances anyway to appear in the DBS Calcio media voting table, despite not having exactly a 'full' season of games. Bale doesn't but would only be behind Saka (assuming he qualifies as RW himself which he did for the Twitter poll without winning the vote, and it seems reasonable I guess?) and Mahrez in terms of average rating for his qualifying appearances. Lamptey of Brighton has only 11 registered games but would edge Cancelo on average rating, and make top 20 overall.


    GK: Pope; Johnstone, Martinez, Ramsdale
    RB: Cancelo; Walker-Peters, Ayling, Azpilicueta
    LB: Tierney; Justin, Dallas, Robertson
    CB: Stones; Mee, Dunk, Dawson
    CB: Dias; Evans, Godfrey, Tarkowski
    CM: Phillips; Rice, Hojberg, Rodri
    CM: Henderson; Gundogan, Tielemans, Soucek
    AM: De Bruyne; Bernardo Silva, Mount, Fernandes
    RW: Saka; Mahrez, James Rodriguez, Salah
    LW: Grealish; Foden, Son, Barnes
    ST: Kane; Antonio, Watkins, Vardy
     
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  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Sorry, one correction...

    I checked Raphinia (he didn't show up on the main media voting page despite enough games because he started the season for a different club I think) and his average rating of 6.9 can qualify him as top rated right winger, which means it would change to this (with Salah removed now, and Saka not making the first XI).

    GK: Pope; Johnstone, Martinez, Ramsdale
    RB: Cancelo; Walker-Peters, Ayling, Azpilicueta
    LB: Tierney; Justin, Dallas, Robertson
    CB: Stones; Mee, Dunk, Dawson
    CB: Dias; Evans, Godfrey, Tarkowski
    CM: Phillips; Rice, Hojberg, Rodri
    CM: Henderson; Gundogan, Tielemans, Soucek
    AM: De Bruyne; Bernardo Silva, Mount, Fernandes
    RW: Raphinia; Saka, Mahrez, James Rodriguez
    LW: Grealish; Foden, Son, Barnes
    ST: Kane; Antonio, Watkins, Vardy
     
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  21. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Edhardy repped this.
  22. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Seasonal awards from The Athletic:

    https://theathletic.com/2593767/2021/05/17/the-athletic-uk-20-21-season-awards/

    Player of the Season: Ruben Dias (Nominees: Kane, Fernandes, De Bruyne, Gundogan)

    YPOTS: Phil Foden (Nominees: Mount, Saka, Rice)

    Underrated Player of the Season: Tomas Soucek (Nominees: Jonny Evans, Bissouma, Tielemans)

    Bundesliga Player of the Season: Lewandowski

    Bundesliga YPOTS: Bellingham

    La Liga Player of the Season: Casemiro

    La Liga YPOTS: Pedri

    Serie A Player of the Season: Lukaku

    Serie A YPOTS: Vlahovic

    Scottish Player of the Season: Steven Davis

    Scottish YPOTS: Ali McCann (St Johnstone)

    EFL PLayer of the Season: Emi Buendia

    EFL YPOTS: Michael Olise

    PL TOTS: Martinez: Cancelo, Dias, Stones, Shaw; Gundogan, De Bruyne, Fernandes; Salah, Kane, Son
     
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  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What a typical but predictable joke it will be if Ruben Dias winst the PFA and FWA double while this was denied to Van Dijk. Only confirms my previous theses.

    Another kick in the butt by the English machinery that will be (no way Pickford escapes punishment if this was Harry Kane or Neymar; later referee Oliver said he just didn't review the situation, but that opens the door for retroactive punishment). Thank you, we miss our best player at the euros now. The real games often takes place behind the scenes.

    Dias has been world class but clearly not playing at that level. From the passes, the top speed, the goals, the duel success rate, the low poor touches, the WhoScored ratings or man of the match awards, City playing with defensive midfielders while Liverpool doesn't... The choice is plenty. But Carragher is saying things as Dias is "more impressive".

    Also note City had (comfortably) won the league as well with previous years points total, and their defensive record has been only a few goals better. Also because Rodri has improved and the tactical fouling by the behemoth further sophisticated.
     
  24. IceBlood34

    IceBlood34 Member

    Montpellier HSC
    France
    Jan 27, 2021
    #124 IceBlood34, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
    We will talk about it again once the end of the club season is over (i.e. after the two European finals) but we can already estimate certain trends on the best players of the season and therefore those who can aspire to the Ballon d'Or 2021.
    However, I don't know about you, but I find that there is not ONE player who stands out as THE BIG FAVORITE for the 2021 Ballon d'Or.
    It is no surprise that the favorites are (as it stands):
    - De Bruyne
    - Ruben Dias?
    - Messi
    - Mbappé
    - Lewandowski

    The rest of the top 10-13 can undoubtedly be completed by:
    - Cristiano Ronaldo
    - Haaland
    - Lukaku
    - Kanté
    - Gundogan
    - Bruno Fernandes
    - Foden
    - Benzema

    For the five favorites, I will tell them about their weakness and strength in the race for the favorite, knowing that Manchester City players will undoubtedly make a "Liverpool effect 2019 2.0"

    - De Bruyne:
    Strength: Doubled with Manchester City (League Cup & Premier League), the symbol of the captain and playing master of Pep Guardiola's team. Still in the race for the treble with the Champions League and being part of one of the favorite teams of the Euro.
    Weakness: Like Van Djik in 2019, it is possible that the fact that several City players are mentioned in the list, that it disperses the votes. He has not "yet" won the Champions League or the Euro and he is "only" a midfielder.

    - Mbappé:
    Strength: Top scorer in Ligue 1, height of decisive goals during the Champions League campaign with Paris St Germain. He's also playing on the hype that we've been making about him for a little while.
    He will be one of the stars of the Euro, with France as one of the favorite teams. His stats are his best of his career.
    Weakness: Absence in the semi-finals of the Champions League, can potentially make a white season (Championship? Cup?).

    - Lewandowski:
    Strength: Best European scorer and second most decisive of the year 2021. He won the German championship with Bayern Munich and his statistics are still impressive. He didn't get his Ballon d'Or last year (stolen) and no doubt some journalists will reward him.
    Weakness: His Polish team have little to gain at Euro 2021, the fact that he is injured when Bayern needed it most in the Champions League. Missing a German Cup.

    - Messi:
    Strength: Most decisive player of 2021. Return of his best football. Winner of the Spanish Cup. Copa America 2021 in perspective, with one of the favorite teams of the competition.
    Weakness: Eliminated very early in the Champions League despite two goals, a Liga incomprehensibly lost at the very end of the season.

    - Ruben Dias:
    Strength: Fundamental element of the quest for the treble? for Man City. A Virgil Van Djik 2.0. England Player of the Year. Winner of the League Cup and the Premier League. On the way to the Champions League and part of Portugal, which is also one of the favorites at the Euro this summer.

    Do you agree with me ?
    What is your current ranking for the 2021 Ballon d'Or?
     
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  25. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The list is pretty much identical to mine, I also had Kane around the 10-13 but he has slowed down but with a decent Euros is back in.

    Re the winner, if KDB or Mbappe has a strong showing in the Euro and Belgium or France win that could seal it (especially if City win CL also re KDB).

    Totally agree re Lewandowski "legacy" / carry over votes from last season, given the early CL exit, I feel he would need to be one of the stars at Euro to win it which I am not sure will happen re Poland probably not going far.

    Many of your top 10-13 could jump higher with a good Euros but probably not enough to win unless it is spectacular event for them.

    My other thoughts are if there is no stand out at Euros in general or any of the above then if Messi continues his current form he will gain a lot of votes.
     

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