Regarding Holland/The Netherlands: I always thought that the English are very inconsistent in their naming of that part of Europe. They call them "the Dutch", so why not call that part simply "Dutchland"? Or the other way round, call the inhabitants "Hollanders" or "Netherlanders" instead, not "the Dutch".
Over here Dutch (or 'Dietsland' in native language) is associated with the controversial 'Greater-Netherlands' thought, which aims at a reuniting, or annexation I'd say, of Flanders. Unfortunately, the national anthem says that we are of 'dietschen' blood - Dutch blood. Over the course of years it is thought that we sing "of 'duitsen' blood". Indeed, that means "of German blood". The worst thing is that players sing this before a match, "we are of German blood".
Ipswich Town ended second in 1981/1982. Were no players of that side good enough? I know that Frans Thijssen, player of the year in 1981, was injured for most parts of the season though.
I'll try and come back on some of those names when I get the chance. In relation to Ettori, Monaco won the league and he managed to force himself into the France side for the 1982 WC (where he was poor). Probably more logic than anything that I would expect such a player to have played well. I'm not sure it was based on anything concrete. Burgsmuller scored 22 goals I think, so must have been playing pretty well to do that. I'll stop using Holland in the lists though, I didn't mean it to be offensive at all. Just using the most common terminology in Britain. I'll switch to Netherlands from now on.
Maybe you misunderstood me: I did not say with certainty that it should be the other way around (the reverse order) but you ranked Conti a 'class' above Causio (three stars versus two stars) and I was curious about the reasoning or evidence you had.
Checking http://www.dbscalcio.it , I'll make some comments: Krol, Scirea, Falcao, and Causio had been confirmed in world class season, rating above 6.50 and making the top-20 list in domestic league. https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/serie-a-rankings-legione-straniera-1980-87.1811217/page-4 GK: G.Galli had an intl. class season (6,42), but rated at #8 amongt keepers. Zoff had also an intl. class season but rated at #12 (6,32). Martina deserves to be included, he was rated #3 in full list (averaging 6,73) FB: Gentile is ok (6,46). Cabrini had an intl class season (6,35). CB: Bergomi had an intl. class season as CB (6,33). Brio had a regular season (rated 6.16). Also Orlando Pereira (rated 6.00) CM: Vandereycken is ok (6.44). Genzano deserves to be included, he was rated #5 in full list (averaging 6,70) AM: Brady seems to had a regular season only (6,24). WG: Causio was POY (6,94). Conti had a intl class season (6,33). Bertoni had a regular season (6,12) FW: Schachner is ok (6,43). Pruzzo had a regular season only (averaging 6,06)
My comments about players from La Liga (1981-82 season): Name in: Camacho, #6 in Don Balon and #20 in Mundo Deportivo, also a starter for Spain NT. Bonderline: Zamora, #38 in Don Balon . His intl. matches could be a bonus. Simonsen, #40 in Don Balon list. Intl. matches could be bonus Quini had a lower rating in both DB and MD. But was topscorer with 26/32 gpg. Canito, good rates in both rankings, but almost unknown player. Named off: Urquiaga seems overated by Don Balon, he rated near #50 in MD ranking. Alesanco doesn't make Don Balon top-50 list.
I meant to come back on some of these quite a while ago, but got put off by other things. I'll try to do as many as possible, and it's really good to get the challenge on some of the names. I'm not claiming it's definitive, just trying to put the pieces together really, and looking for help and suggestions. Galli - Fiorentina finished second in the league and only conceded 17 goals all season. Galli made it into the Italy squad for the 1982 WC. Demyanenko - Finished highly in the Soviet player of the year awards. Swain - Named to the PFA team of the year and Villa won the European Cup. Urquiaga - Rated highly in the season averages for Spain from Mundo Deportivo. Stojkovic - Named to a rest of the world team and something in World Soccer about him being a very good player. Meeuws - Standard Liege won the title and I think I read a very brief snippet about him being a key player. Bergomi - Managed to make the Italy squad at just 18 against some very stiff opposition, therefore supposition makes me think he played well for Inter. Tendillo - Rated highly in the Spanish lists that msioux provided. Hieronymus - Title winner with Hamburg and highly rated by kicker in their ratings Forster - Highly rated by kicker in their ratings. Alecsanco - Rated highly in the Spanish lists that msioux provided. Fiala - Czechoslovakian player of the year and also mentioned by World Soccer as being a very good player. O'Leary - Included in the PFA team of the season. Russman - Ranked well by kicker. Orlando - Highly rated by Guerin Sportivo. Alonso - Influential player in Sociedad's title victory. Regular for the Spanish national team. Zygmantovic - Minsk won the Soviet title in 1982, I think he was regarded as a key player. Robson - Named in the PFA team of the year and widely regarded as a star for England going into the 1982 WC. Vandereycken - Highly rated by Guerin Sportivo. Lerby - Integral player for Ajax during this season according to WS. Gudelj - Mentioned by World Soccer as an excellent player I believe, also Yugoslav player of the year. Zdravkov - Bulgarian title winner and the club also knocked Liverpool out of Europe. I think he was meant to have been very good this season. Balaci - Romanian player of the year Oliveira - Portuguese player of the year (for 81 and 82) Petrovic - Generally excellent player who seems to have stayed fit and scored a lot of goals this season. Morley - Villa's best attacking player. Coppell - Consistently good player who was Shengelia - One of the players of the season in Soviet leagues in 1981 and 1982 I believe. Simonsen - Highly rated in the threads of msioux for this season. Schachner - Highly rated by Guerin Sportivo. Bellone - Key for Monaco who won the French title and a part of the French squad. Decent scoring record this season.
Since Guerin rated Orlando in a intl. class (IC) season, the info provides by dbscalcio.it, rate him at national class (NC) only for 1981-82 season. For dbscalcio sources, Bergomi, Galli, Vandereycken and Schachner had IC season, the last 3 world class bonderline, but also belgian & austrian being starters and instrumentals for their NTs. Urquiaga could be rated as IC by Don Balon, but only NC by Mundo Deportivo. Tendillo was rated WC by don Balon, but IC by Mundo Deportivo, also starter for Spain NT. Alesanco was rated NC by don Balon, but IC by Mundo Deportivo. Perico Alonso was rated IC in both rankings. Simonsen was rated NC by Don Balon but WC by Mundo Deportivo. Note: The WC/IC/NC categories are an aproximation according ratings provided for this season in domestic league.
Thanks for the information! I will go back through all of these when I get to the end of the 1980s and create a summary of the ten threads.
Revised attempt for this year with player appearances and goals: Goalkeeper Luis Arconada (Real Sociedad and Spain) 34 games, 0 goals *** Harald Schumacher (Koln and West Germany) 34 games, 0 goals *** Peter Shilton (Nottingham Forest and England) 41 games, 0 goals ** Bernd Franke (Eintracht Braunschweig and West Germany) 42 games, 0 goals ** Dino Zoff (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 0 goals ** Jean-Luc Ettori (Monaco and France) 37 games, 0 goals * Giovanni Galli (Fiorentina and Italy) 30 games, 0 goals * Hans van Breukelen (Utrecht and Holland) 33 games, 0 goals * Jozef Mlynarczyk (Widzew Lodz and Poland) 24 games, 0 goals * Full-backs Claudio Gentile (Juventus and Italy) 27 games, 2 goals *** Antonio Cabrini (Juventus and Italy) 29 games, 5 goals ** Eric Gerets (Standard Liege and Belgium) 31 games, 2 goals ** Rafael Gordillo (Real Betis and Spain) 33 games, 5 goals ** Manfred Kaltz (Hamburg and West Germany) 32 games, 9 goals ** Manuel Amoros (Monaco and France) 30 games, 2 goals ** Anatoliy Demyanenko (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 29 games, 2 goals in 1981, 32 games, 5 goals in 1982 ** Genaro Celayeta (Real Sociedad and Spain) 28 games, 0 goals * Kenny Swain (Aston Villa and England) * Kenny Sansom (Arsenal and England) 42 games, 0 goals * Hans-Peter Briegel (Kaiserslautern and West Germany) 32 games, 13 goals* Jose Camacho (Real Madrid and Spain) 33 games, 2 goals * Nenad Stojkovic (Partizan Belgrade and Yugoslavia) 34 games, 1 goal * Libero Ruud Krol (Napoli and Holland) 27 games, 0 goals *** Gaetano Scirea (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 5 goals *** Alan Hansen (Liverpool and Scotland) 35 games, 0 goals ** Alexandr Chivadze (Dinamo Tbilisi and USSR) 28 games, 2 goals in 1981, 30 games, 4 goals in 1982 ** Walter Meeuws (Standard Liege and Belgium) 31 games, 4 goals * Giuseppe Bergomi (Internazionale and Italy) 24 games, 2 goals * Martin Haar (Haarlem and Holland) * Wladyslaw Zmuda (Widzew Lodz and Poland) 28 games, 1 goal * Bruno Pezzey (Eintracht Frankfurt and Austria) 30 games, 4 goals * Maxime Bossis (Nantes and France) 36 games, 4 goals * Glenn Hysen (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden) 25 games, 2 goals in 1981, 18 games, 1 goal in 1982 * Humberto Coelho (Benfica and Portugal) 26 games, 5 goals * Stoppers Miguel Tendillo (Valencia and Spain) 28 games, 3 goals ** Steve Perryman (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 42 games, 1 goal ** Holger Hieronymus (Hamburg and West Germany) 28 games, 1 goal ** Karl-Heinz Forster (Stuttgart and West Germany) 26 games, 3 goals ** Alecsanco (Barcelona and Spain) 32 games, 6 goals * Sergio Brio (Juventus and Italy) 29 games, 1 goal * Frank Rijkaard (Ajax and Holland) 27 games, 4 goals * Jan Fiala (Dukla Prague and Czechoslovakia) 30 games, 0 goals * David O’Leary (Arsenal and Republic of Ireland) 40 games, 1 goal * Jan Poortvliet (PSV Eindhoven and Holland) 34 games, 10 goals * Rolf Russman (Borussia Dortmund and West Germany) 34 games, 8 goals * Central midfielders Paulo Roberto Falcao (Roma and Brazil) 24 games, 6 goals *** Paul Breitner (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 29 games, 18 goals *** Uli Stielike (Real Madrid and West Germany) 28 games, 9 goals *** Graeme Souness (Liverpool and Scotland) 35 games, 5 goals ** Alain Giresse (Bordeaux and France) 34 games, 14 goals * Felix Magath (Hamburg and West Germany) 28 games, 8 goals ** Glenn Stromberg (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden) 21 games, 1 goal in 1981, 27 games, 5 goals in 1982 ** Miguel Alonso (Real Sociedad and Spain) 31 games, 7 goals ** Andrei Zygmantovic (Dynamo Minsk and USSR) 5 games, 0 goals in 1981, 30 games, 2 goals in 1982 ** Bryan Robson (West Bromwich Albion/Manchester United and England) 5 games, 0 goals for WBA, 32 games, 5 goals for Manchester United* Jean-Francois Larios (St Etienne and France) 31 games, 5 goals * Ricardo Gallego (Real Madrid and Spain) 31 games, 4 goals * Jan Peters (AZ Alkmaar and Holland) 31 games, 8 goals * Jesus Zamora (Real Sociedad and Spain) 31 games, 3 goals * Rene Vandereycken (Genoa and Belgium) 25 games, 0 goals * Soren Lerby (Ajax and Denmark) 30 games, 9 goals * Jean Tigana (Bordeaux and France) 27 games, 1 goal * Ivan Gudelj (Hadjuk Split and Yugoslavia) 33 games, 3 goals * Ray Wilkins (Manchester United and England) 42 games, 1 goal * Terry McDermott (Liverpool and England) 29 games, 14 goals * Attacking midfielders Michel Platini (St Etienne and France) 36 games, 22 goals *** Glenn Hoddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 34 games, 10 goals ** Liam Brady (Juventus and Republic of Ireland) 29 games, 5 goals ** John Wark (Ipswich and Scotland) 42 games, 18 goals ** Manfred Burgsmuller (Borussia Dortmund and West Germany) 34 games, 22 goals * Zbigniew Boniek (Widzew Lodz and Poland) 26 games, 8 goals ** Radoslav Zdravkov (CSKA Sofia and Bulgaria) 28 games, 7 goals * Vladimir Petrovic (Red Star Belgrade and Yugoslavia) 29 games, 3 goals * Juan Lozano (Anderlecht and Spain/Belgium) * Rudiger Schnuphase (Carl Zeiss Jena and East Germany) 25 games, 19 goals * Antonio Oliveira (Sporting Lisbon and Portugal) 24 games, 12 goals * Ruud Gullit (Haarlem and Holland) 31 games, 14 goals * Umberto Barberis (Monaco and Switzerland) 36 games, 11 goals * Ilie Balaci (Universitea Craiova and Romania) 31 games, 10 goals * Wingers Franco Causio (Udinese and Italy) 26 games, 5 goals *** Pierre Littbarski (Koln and West Germany) 32 games, 6 goals ** Tony Morley (Aston Villa and England) 37 games, 6 goals ** Jesper Olsen (Ajax and Denmark) 34 games, 11 goals ** Bruno Conti (Roma and Italy) 26 games, 8 goals * Steve Coppell (Manchester United and England) 36 games, 9 goals * Remaz Shengelia (Dinamo Tbilisi and USSR) 31 games, 23 goals in 1981, 26 games, 16 goals in 1982* Daniel Bertoni (Fiorentina and Argentina) 30 games, 9 goals * Forwards Kevin Keegan (Southampton and England) 41 games, 26 goals *** Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 32 games, 14 goals *** Kenny Dalglish (Liverpool and Scotland) 42 games, 13 goals ** Roberto Lopez Ufarte (Real Sociedad and Spain) 32 games, 11 goals ** Oleg Blokhin (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 29 games, 19 goals in 1981, 24 games, 10 goals in 1982 * Alan Simonssen (Barcelona and Denmark) 33 games, 11 goals * Walter Schachner (Cesena and Austria) 28 games, 9 goals * Bruno Bellone (Monaco and France) 30 games, 12 goals* Franky Vercauteren (Anderlecht and Belgium) 34 games, 8 goals * Johan Cruyff (Ajax and Holland) 15 games, 7 goals * Trevor Francis (Manchester City and England) 26 games, 12 goals * Strikers Horst Hrubesch (Hamburg and West Germany) 32 games, 27 goals *** Quini (Barcelona and Spain) 32 games, 27 goals *** Wim Kieft (Ajax and Holland) 32 games, 32 goals ** Roberto Pruzzo (Roma and Italy) 26 games, 15 goals ** Torbjorn Nilsson (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden) 26 games, 20 goals in 1981, 7 games, 6 goals in 1982** Delio Onnis (Tours and Argentina) 29 goals * Rui Jordao (Sporting and Portugal) 27 games, 27 goals * Jacques Pereira (Porto and Portugal) 30 games, 27 goals * Andrej Szarmach (Auxerre and Poland) 32 games, 24 goals * Ian Rush (Liverpool and Wales) 32 games, 17 goals * Kees Kist (AZ Alkmaar and Holland) 34 games, 29 goals * Dieter Hoeness (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 33 games, 21 goals * Erwin Vandenbergh (Lierse and Belgium) 31 games, 25 goals * Nene (Benfica and Portugal) 30 games, 24 goals * Alan Brazil (Ipswich and Scotland) 35 games, 22 goals * World Class – 12 1. Kevin Keegan 2. Horst Hrubesch 3. Franco Causio 4. Michel Platini 5. Ruud Krol 6. Paulo Roberto Falcao 7. Gaetano Scirea 8. Paul Breitner 9. Quini 10. Uli Stielike 11. Luis Arconada 12. Claudio Gentile 13. Harald Schumacher 14. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
Does this take the 1982WC into account? Keegan at 1 and Rummenigge at 14 is interesting. Esp. because Rummenigge almost recaptured his European Cup topscorer title (played in injured condition in last few months of season) and Keegan only scored one field goal for Southampton in Europe - other goal was from the spot. That is my quick thought but question is whether this includes 1982WC performances, and to what extent. EDIT: I see Gentile kept his WC rating despite low ratings in Italian league and not listed in Ballon d'Or 1982. He was wonderful at World Cup of course. I'm curious whether odds existed about the Ballon d'Or 1982 poll before the 1982WC, because the WC heavily influenced the ranking.
No, it doesn't take the WC into account. I'll do a separate thread for that. The listing of WC is uncertain, particularly for the top spot.
OK, 1982WC had more good performers as euro80 (also more teams of course). Will be hard to make some choices like Littbarski vs Boniek. Some others have to be included though in every all star tournament team such as Rossi and Zico. Teams like that tend to be filled with guys reaching the semi-final and final (unless it is a small team like Holland or Croatia) but other teams like Hungary and Algeria had nice players as well.