The best players of the 1998 World Cup

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Jan 26, 2017.

  1. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Blanco never player like winger in his all career ... he was an all around forward mainly from his beginnings and in second way a trequartista (deep-lying forward) and from 2002 he was began to be a trequartista mainly and in second way playmaking-attacking midfielder.

    In WC98 Ramón Ramírez was the left-winger ever (better than Andrés Guardado in my opinion) and on right-side there wasn't a natural winger but Francisco Palencia played there although he was a striker/forward, also Jaime Ordiales and Jesús "Cabrito" Arellano but he was a some kind specie of right-attacking midfielder.

    The issue was that in WC98 Mexico regularly played with Luis Hernández, Francisco Palencia and Ricardo Peláez and they were strikers (Palencia a little more mobile than Hernández and Paláez) and for that Blanco moved behind them and in all the field including the wings.
     
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  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    The other Veron assist was against the Netherlands of course, so 3 must be correct I think yes.
     
  3. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Ok thanks for the info, it must be that.
    (now there's 'deflection' and deflection' but ofc as it is not the object of the thread it has to stay just as a short parenthesis for the special cases of Thuram and Barthez in the match with Saudi Arabia so no need to go further on it...but again, thanks for the info regarding how Fifa counts it, as obviously that is what matters...but I don't agree...)
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    That's ok. To be honest, I'm not sure it is how FIFA counts it though (I think their guidelines might be even in the opposite direction - I think another poster pointed out to me that Pele's pass to Jairzinho in 1970 vs Czechoslovakia was not an assist according to FIFA maybe). So perhaps FIFA see it more like the 'decisive passes' you explained to me historically, but it's easy to get confused on this matter and forget exactly what has been read!

    I think Planet World Cup was likely created as a website after the invention of Fantasy Football, so maybe there is some parallel with how assists are awarded there (or were in the original game).
     
  5. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Yes yes, Fifa has not counted them at the time in any case.
     
  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Ok, so this was my provisional ranking here:

    Goalkeepers

    Jose Luis Chilavert (Paraguay) 4 games, 0 goals ***

    Fabien Barthez (France) 7 games, 0 goals **

    Edwin van der Sar (Netherlands) 7 games, 0 goals *

    Gianluca Pagliuca (Italy) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Drazen Ladic (Croatia) 7 games, 0 goals *

    Full-backs

    Lilian Thuram (France) 6 games, 2 goals ***

    Roberto Carlos (Brazil) 7 games, 0 goals **

    Bixente Lizarazu (France) 6 games, 1 goal **

    Robert Jarni (Croatia) 7 games, 1 goal **

    Cafu (Brazil) 6 games, 0 goals **

    Paolo Maldini (Italy) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Francisco Arce (Paraguay) 4 games, 0 goals *

    Centre-backs

    Marcel Desailly (France) 7 games, 0 goals ***

    Frank de Boer (Netherlands) 7 games, 0 goals ***

    Sol Campbell (England) 4 games, 0 goals ***

    Laurent Blanc (France) 5 games, 1 goal **

    Carlos Gamarra (Paraguay) 4 games, 0 goals *

    Roberto Ayala (Argentina) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Fabio Cannavaro (Italy) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Celso Ayala (Paraguay) 4 games, 0 goals *

    Central Midfielders

    Edgar Davids (Netherlands) 6 games, 1 goal ***

    Juan Veron (Argentina) 5 games, 0 goals ***

    Didier Deschamps (France) 6 games, 0 goals **

    Emmanuel Petit (France) 6 games, 2 goals **

    Dunga (Brazil) 7 games, 0 goals *

    Cesar Sampaio (Brazil) 6 games, 3 goals *

    Fernando Hierro (Spain) 3 games, 2 goals *

    Philip Cocu (Netherlands) 7 games, 2 goals *

    Luigi Di Biagio (Italy) 5 games, 1 goal *

    Paul Ince (England) 4 games, 0 goals *

    Aljosa Asanovic (Croatia) 7 games, 0 goals *

    Wim Jonk (Netherlands) 6 games, 0 goals *

    Attacking Midfielders

    Rivaldo (Brazil) 7 games, 3 goals ***

    Zinedine Zidane (France) 5 games, 2 goals **

    Ronald de Boer (Netherlands) 6 games, 2 goals **

    Jay-Jay Okocha (Nigeria) 3 games, 0 goals *

    Mustapha Hadji (Morocco) 3 games, 1 goal *

    Michael Laudrup (Denmark) 5 games, 1 goal *

    Zvonimir Boban (Croatia) 6 games, 0 goals *

    Wingers

    Brian Laudrup (Denmark) 5 games, 2 goals **

    Thierry Henry (France) 6 games, 3 goals *

    Marc Overmars (Netherlands) 6 games, 1 goal *

    Mehdi Mahdavikia (Iran) 3 games, 1 goal *

    Forwards

    Ariel Ortega (Argentina) 5 games, 2 goals **

    Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands) 7 games, 3 goals **

    Roberto Baggio (Italy) 4 games, 2 goals *

    Cuauhtémoc Blanco (Mexico) 4 games, 1 goal *

    Strikers

    Ronaldo (Brazil) 7 games, 4 goals ***

    Davor Suker (Croatia) 7 games, 6 goals ***

    Christian Vieri (Italy) 5 games, 5 goals ***

    Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina) 5 games, 5 goals **

    Marcelo Salas (Chile) 4 games, 4 goals **

    Luis Hernandez (Mexico) 4 games, 4 goals *

    Michael Owen (England) 4 games, 2 goals *

    Oliver Bierhoff (Germany) 5 games, 3 goals *
     
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  7. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I know that Campbell with 3 stars stands out and I really deliberated over that one but I just remembered him being outstanding and I eventually couldn't move past my own vivid memories.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Why Bergkamp only two stars, and more importantly behind Ortega? He had three goals without a penalty (two goals in the KO stage), and with three quality assists also the joint top-assister. Not bad while coming off from an injury.

    He featured highly in the top 10 of FIFA WPotY, Ballon d'Or and even finished inside the top 10 of the Golden Ball while not featuring prominently on the billboards or so (included in the All Star team).

    I know that you try to make it match with your previous all-time list(s).

    If error-prone Roberto Carlos is two stars then Dunga also?
     
  9. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    The Ortega question is easy to answer. It was simply that he was ahead when I first put the list together and didn't rearrange them.

    In terms of Bergkamp, he was definitely somebody that I considered for 3 stars but I wasn't sure enough to give it to him. I think some of the awards were driven as much by his performances for Arsenal as they were for the World Cups.

    How do you mean that I try to make it match my all-time lists? I think Bergkamp is going to be one who shoots up my all-time lists as I've now given him about 20 stars in total and he is still only 29 years old in where I've got up to.
     
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  10. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Just to add, I had him 37th in my list of forwards. If I was to revisit then I'd probably be looking at 20th or so, maybe upper teens. Maybe even higher.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah. I also remember Dunga somehow. Not as good as in 1994 but still the bedrock of midfield.
     
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  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Oh ok. I thought you tried to match/synchronize them a little bit.

    I always find it hard to compare vastly different periods (at any sport) but I think of him around Henry's level and one of the five best players of the 1990s (probably behind the two Italians and level with Roy Keane and a few others).

    Edit: see now also Paolo Roberto Falcao was mentioned.
     
  13. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    They're only meant to be matched to the extent that I produced the lists based on relevant information and memories and am doing the same here. So if better information comes to light then I would change the viewpoint I like to think, but it can be difficult with some deeply embedded memories.

    It is very difficult to compare them (particularly different positions and eras) but I think he'll end up as one of the players with the most stars for the 90s.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah, I'm leaning to Baggio and Maldini - naturally leaning to the creative player - as top for the 1990s (helped by the strength of the Italian league) but I think he was a terrific and influential player. Maybe slightly overrated in some years, maybe slightly underrated in his veteran years (although this is enormously compensated by 'end of the decade' lists around 2009) but in the end it evens out more or less, putting him at the top for 1990 - 1999 in Ballon d'Or.

    Things were quite volatile at the FIFA and Ballon d'Or vote back then. One way to deal with that is this: the only three players to rank in the top 10 of the Ballon d'or and FIFA World Player vote (among captains and managers) for 1997 and 1998 are Ronaldo, Zidane and Bergkamp. All of them are quite comfortably in. Bergkamp is also the only player to make it into the top 10 of all the four 1992 and 1993 lists (Stoichkov and Schmeichel the closest to make it in all four lists, and had Abedi Pelé been eligible then there would've been a chance for him too imho going by the FIFA list; he was top 10 in 1992). Again, he's comfortably in all four.

    Of course everyone has their own impression with these things and I don't follow it blindly (otherwise it means Gerrard > Pirlo by Ballon d'Or).
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    A great, absolutely fantastic comp to be honest of all of R9s actions at the 1998 world

    I always viewed his performance as a relative disappointment especially compared to the all time great form he showed in Italy during 1997/98
    There were still shades of brilliance here and some edge of the seat stuff most of the time he got on the ball

    His agility and balance,the way he could change direction mid way through a run twisting and turning kind of defied physics.
    He wasn't a small guy but had a low centre of gravity as a David Silva or Andres iniesta
    Extremely difficult to shrug off the ball and even more difficult to keep up with going at full pelt

    You can hear from commentators aswell the expectation was he'd solidify his position as one of the all time greats here but failed to do so (in the final)
    I think his worldwide reputation entering the 1998 world cup was greater as compared to Ronaldinho entering the 2006 world cup

    R9 just had back to back legendary seasons
    The only player of the 90s decade to do so( and he was barely 22 years old)
     
  16. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    France Football ratings. Etoiles FF.

    Joueurs de champ (field players)

    1. Thuram (France), 30.
    2. Desailly (France), 28.
    3. Suker (Croatie), Petit (France), 27.
    5. Davids (Pays-bas), 26.
    6. Dunga, Rivaldo (Brésil), F. de Boer, Stam (Pays-bas), 25.
    10. Jarni (Croatie), Deschamps (France), Cocu (Pays-bas), 24.
    13. Cafu, Leonardo, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo (Brésil), Asanovic, Stanic (Croatie), 23.
    19. César Sampaio, Junior Baiano (Brésil), Bilic, Stimac (Croatie), Lizarazu (France), R. de Boer (Pays-bas), 22.
    25. Veron (Argentine), Bebeto (Brésil), 21.
    27. B. Laudrup (Danemark), Boban, Simic (Croatie), Djorkaeff (France), Overmars (Pays-bas), 20.
    32. Batistuta (Argentine), Jörgensen, Helveg, Rieper (Danemark), Bergkamp, Jonk (Pays-bas), 19.
    38. Bierhoff (Allemagne), Almeyda (Argentine), Aldair (Brésil), Soldo, Vlaovic (Croatie), Numan (Pays-bas), 18.
    44. Zanetti (Argentine), Högh (Danemark), M. Laudrup (Danemark), Zidane (France), Cannavaro, Vieri (Italie), Hernandez (Mexique), 17.
    51. Campbell (Angleterre), Ayala (Argentine), Zamorano (Chili), Colding (Danemark), D. Baggio, Costacurta, Maldini (Italie), Blanco (Mexique), Mihajlovic (Yougoslavie), 16.
    60. Heinrich, Klinsmann, Wörns (Allemagne), Le Saux (Angleterre), Salas (Chili), Blanc (France), Di Biagio (Italie), Benitez (Paraguay), Ilie, Gh. Popescu (Roumanie), Jokanovic (Yougoslavie), 15.
    71. Matthaüs (Allemagne), Scholes, Shearer (Angleterre), Ortega, Simeone (Argentine), Henry (France), Okocha (Nigeria), Eggen, T.A Flo, Rekdal (Norvège), Galca, Munteanu (Roumanie), Jugovic (Yougoslavie), 14.
    84. Kohler (Allemagne), Adams (Angleterre), Vivas (Argentine), Nielsen (Danemark), Davino, Garcia Aspe, Suarez (Mexique), Lawal, Oliseh, West (Nigéria), Bjornebye, H. Flo, Johnsen (Norvège), Ayala, Gamarra, Paredes (Paraguay), Reiziger (Pays-bas), Stojkovic (Yougoslaie), 13.
    102. Hamann (Allemagne), Anderton (Angleterre), Lopez (Argentine), Acuna, Margas, Reyes (Chili), Prosinecki (Croatie), Luis Enrique (Espagne), Moriero (Italie), Simpson (Jamaïque), Hadji, Tahar (Maroc), Berg (Norvège), Encisco (Paraguay), Ciobotariu, Petrescu (Roumanie), Djorovic, Petrovic (Yougoslavie), 12.
    120. Hässler, Jeremies (Allemagne), Fortune, Radebe (Afrique du Sud), Ince (Angleterre), Al Jaber, Amin, Zebermaoui (Arabie Saoudite), Rojas (Chili), Collins, Dailly, Durie, Hendry (Ecosse), Hejduk (Etats-unis), Albertini, Bergomi (Italie), Hall, Withmore (Jamaïque), Nanami, Soma (Japon), Naybet (Maroc), Arellano (Mexique), Riseth (Norvège), Arce, Sarabia (Paraguay), Hagi (Roumanie), Komjlenovic (Yougoslavie), 11.
    147. Issa, McCarthy, Moshoeu (Afrique du Sud), Tarnat (Allemagne), Neville (Angleterre), Al-Oweiran, Souleimani (Arabie Saoudite), Polster (Autriche), Wilmots (Belgique), Estay, Fuentes (Chili), Rincon, Serna (Colombie), Yoo Sang-chul (Corée du Sud), Heintze (Danemark), Lambert (Ecosse), Hierro, Sergi (Espagne), Dooley (Etats-unis), Trezeguet (France), Azizi, Bagheri, Khapkour, Mahdavikia (Iran), Gardner (Jamaïque), Akita, Ihara, Nakata, Nakayema (Japon), Bassir, Hadda, Saber (Maroc), Caniza (Paraguay), Kluivert, Winter (Pays-bas), Filipescu, Moldovan (Roumanie), Chihi (Tunisie), Jugovic (Yougoslavie), 10.
    186. Fish (Afrique du Sud), Thon (Allemagne), Feiersinger, Pfeffer, Pfeifenberger, Weltl (Autriche), Borkelmans, Nilis, Staelens (Belgique), Iliev (Bulgarie), M'Boma, Njanka (Cameroun), Parraguez (Chili), Bermudez, Cabrera, Palacios, Valencia (Colombie), Hong Myung-bo (Corée du Sud), Jurcic (Croatie), Schjönberg (Danemark), Gallacher (Ecosse), Alkorta, Amor (Espagne), Jones, Régis, Reyna (Etats-unis), Daei, Estili, Minavand, Mohammad-Khani, Pashazadeh, Zarincheh (Iran), Jo (Japon), Chippo (Maroc), Ramirez (Mexique), Babayaro, Finidi, Ikpeba (Nigéria), Acuna, Campos, Cardozo (Paraguay), Seedorf (Pays-bas), Beya, Sellimi, S. Trabelsi (Tunisie), Mijatovic (Yougoslavie), 9.

    Gardiens (keepers)
    1. Barthez (France), 27.
    2. Taffarel (Brésil), Ladic (Croatie), 24.
    4. Van der Sar (Pays-bas), 23.
    5. Pagliuca (Italie), 19.
    6. Schmeichel (Danemark), Chilavert (Paraguay), 18.
    8. Roa (Argentine), 16
    9. Köpke (Allemagne), 15.
    10. Stelea (Roumanie), El Ouar (Tunisie), 14.
    12. Mondragon (Colombie), Campos (Mexique), 13
    14. Konsel (Autriche), Tapia (Chili), Grodas (Norvège), Kralj (Yougoslavie), 12.
    18. Seaman (Angleterre), Al Deayea (Arabie Saoudite), Songo'o (Cameroun), 11.
    21. Vonk (Afrique du Sud), Rufai (Nigéria), 10.
    23. Leighton (Ecosse), Zubizarreta (Espagne), Kawaguchi (japon), Benzekri (Maroc), 9.
    27. De Wilde (Belgique), Zdravkov (Bulgarie), 8
    29. Kim Byung-ji (Corée du Sud), Abedzadeh (Iran), 7.
    31. Keller (Etats-unis), Barrett (Jamaïque), 5.
    33. Friedel (Etats-unis), Lawrence (Jamaïque), 4.
    35. Vande Walle (Belgique), Nakisa (Iran), 3.


    Equipe type du Mondial 98 par FF en se basant sur classement des étoiles.
    Best XI that they made according to their ranking.

    [​IMG]


    Originally, on their drawing, they had Cocu pairing with Suker in attack (still with Rivaldo just behind). I have also reorganized the order from right to left to my convenience at midfield and in defense where de Boer was in the middle and Desailly on the left side. That's certainly because they wanted the more libero-type of player in the middle wich has its logic, but I have preferred to do it like this. By the way, as we can see in the ranking, Stam has the same totals as de Boer. Thus, Stam is their 4th player in defense. Jarni (24 étoiles), Cafu and Roberto Carlos (24 each) are the offensive full-backs of the tournament. Jarni played in a hybrid d-line of 4 or 5 men as it was Stanic (MF) who attacked from the right and not Stimac (DF).
    The midfield is all about hard-workers who also could dictate the play. Upfront, as already said, Rivalo is supporting Suker. The Croatian was not only a finisher by the way but a complete player himself. Back to the defenders other than de Boer, Desailly was very useful in the first pass and Thuram a great value offensively from the right flank. They were as hard as iron defensemen too of course.
    Barthez was extraordinary on his line, in the air to catch crosses and was very good with the feet (he could have been a very good field player without any problem). From another perspective than this ranking wich cumulates the individual ratings, I think that only Chilavert was at this level during the tournament, only in terms of "pure goalkeeping", without even putting their abilities with the feet in the balance.
    In conclusion, the best players of the 1998 tournament were all very complete players. Even Rivaldo did his job as to help at midfield at this time (Brazil played in a 4-4-2 though, whilst they played in 3-5-2/ 5-2-3/ 5-3-2/ 5-2-1-2/ 3-4-1-2/ 3-4-1-1-1 or whatever 4 years later).
     
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  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    In a lot of ways I think I prefer average ratings (rather than cumulative ratings) for making Teams of the Tournament according to publications like that, but I know neither way is fully satisfactory.

    Interestingly, I noticed Frank de Boer (who ends up in both that XI and the squad of the tournament, but who I'd not put in my sketch of a top 20 or my vague idea of a first or second XI based on memories) had a lower rating from FF than I'd have given him (I realise after watching the match with ratings in mind recently) vs South Korea. His bother Ronald (who I did include among those 20 names I came up with) also being a player I'd be rating higher for that particular game. Overall it's hard for me to suggest alterations to my ideas still though, and like for Euro 96 for example I wouldn't really have a good recollection of exactly how I felt Boban and Asanovic played in the Croatian midfield without also re-watching many of their games.


    To make some teams using average ratings though (using a combination of Italian sources from Football ratings BlogSpot):

    Team A - Mondragon (Col); Thuram (Fra), Cannavaro (Ita), Desailly (Fra), Lizarazu (Fra); Ince (Eng), Davids (Ned), Petit (Fra); Zidane (Fra); Owen (Eng), Hernandez (Mex)

    Team B - Pagliuca (Ita); Cafu (Bra), Costacurta (Ita), F. De Boer (Ned), Heinze (Den); Mahdavikia (Irn), Dunga (Bra), Wilmots (Bel); Blanco (Mex); Bierhoff (Ger), Vieiri (Ita)

    Team C - Barthez (Fra); Helveg (Den), Blanc (Fra), Mijhailovic (Yug), Tarnat (Ger); Di Biagio (Ita), Deschamps (Fra); M.Laudrup (Den), Overmars (Ned); B.Laudrup (Den), R.Baggio (Ita)

    Team D - Konsel (Aut); Winter (Ned), Bilic (Cro), Njanka (Cam), Maldini (Ita); Veron (Arg), Hadji (Mor); R.De Boer (Ned), Rivaldo (Bra); Ronaldo (Bra), Suker (Cro)

    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/06/average-ratings-world-cup-1998.html

    Hopefully I didn't miss any players who could slot in there and played enough minutes to reasonably do so. The formations were chosen to suit the higher rated players and likewise the partnerships - eg I didn't split up Owen/Hernandez and B.Laudrup/R.Baggio, and likewise Di Biagio/Deschamps and Veron/Hadji, even though that might make for more 'realistic' line-ups.

    Hopefully I got all those players in the right position basically too!
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Was initially surprised to see Zidane so low (especially since it is a French paper) but he missed games of course. Bergkamp also missing grades because of entering vs Belgium as sub and vs Croatia pulled out early, I think.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Perhaps it could be this just as easily:

    Team A - Mondragon (Col); Thuram (Fra), Cannavaro (Ita), Desailly (Fra), Lizarazu (Fra); Ince (Eng), Davids (Ned), Petit (Fra); Zidane (Fra); Owen (Eng), Hernandez (Mex)

    Team B - Pagliuca (Ita); Cafu (Bra), Bergomi (Ita), F. De Boer (Ned), Heinze (Den); Mahdavikia (Irn), Dunga (Bra), Wilmots (Bel); Blanco (Mex); Bierhoff (Ger), Vieiri (Ita)

    Team C - Barthez (Fra); Helveg (Den), Blanc (Fra), Costacurta (Ita), Tarnat (Ger); Di Biagio (Ita), Deschamps (Fra); M.Laudrup (Den), Overmars (Ned); B.Laudrup (Den), R.Baggio (Ita)

    Team D - Konsel (Aut); Winter (Ned), Adams (Eng), Mijhailovic (Yug), Maldini (Ita); Veron (Arg), Hadji (Mor); R.De Boer (Ned), Rivaldo (Bra); Ronaldo (Bra), Suker (Cro)

    Maybe with Winter and Helveg switched too I guess.
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, so the minimum 5 appearances criteria can come into it (I think Zidane will have that though won't he for example?), but their best XI defence would at least include Thuram and Desailly from the Italian consensus XI, while in midfield/attack it could be Veron for Ince, Ortega for Zidane, possibly Rivaldo for Davids with a different formation specified (but the difference in avg rating is minimal anyway), and also B.Laudrup and Bergkamp making the first choice forward line (but of course Owen and others have less than the 3 rated appearances - anyway Bergkamp leaps over Ronaldo and Suker for average rating from l'Equipe compared to the Italian sources doesn't he....).

    Without checking in detail I'm thinking Pagliuca, Dunga, Brian Laudrup would have been in the first XI from Italian sources if picked on the same basis appearances wise. I think players with very little time played had been discounted for that list too anyway though (and I realised Bergomi did play a fair amount so could be placed into that second XI in theory).
     
  22. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    #47 wm442433, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
    It comes from the actual issue and a few pages later they go until #33 + GK's.

    L'EQUIPE ratings (players who qualified for the quarter-finals and who were rated at least for 5 matches)

    Gardiens (keepers)

    1. Barthez (France), 6,42.
    2. Ladic (Croatie), 6,21.
    3. Schmeichel (Danemark), 6,20.
    4. Pagliuca (Italie), 6,10.
    5. Van der Sar (Pays-Bas), 5,86.
    6. Roa (Argentine), 5,80.
    7. Taffarel (Brésil), 5,75.
    8. Köpke (Allemagne), 5,30.

    Joueurs de champ (field players)

    1. Desailly, Thuram (France), 7.
    3. Petit (France), 6,80.
    4. Ronaldo (Brésil), 6,67.
    5. B. Laudrup (Danemark), 6,60.
    6. Rivaldo (Brésil), 6,58.
    7. Ortega, Veron (Argentine), Davids* (Pays-Bas), 6,40.
    10. Dunga (Brésil), Davids* (Pays-bas), 6,33.
    12. Henry (France), 6,30.
    13. Cafu (Brésil), Vieri (Italie), 6,20.
    15. Junior Baiano (Brésil), Asanovic* (Croatie), 6,17.
    17. Suker (Croatie), F. de Boer (Pays-Bas), 6,14.
    19. Batistuta (Argentine), Jörgensen, M. Laudrup (Danemark), Lizarazu (France), 6,10.
    23. Asanovic* (Croatie), 6,07
    24. Bierhoff (Allemagne), Blanc (France), Cannavaro (italie), Bergkamp, Overmars, Stam* (Pays-Bas), 6.
    30. Stam* (Pays-Bas), 5,93
    31. Helveg (Danemark), Cocu (Pays-Bas), 5,90.
    33. Roberto Carlos, Leonardo (Brésil), Jarni (Croatie), Cocu (Pays-Bas), 5,83...

    *: so there's two times Davids, Asanovic and two times Stam too in it.
    That's probably why footballratings did not publish it.
    But the two top-10's from this same issue are different too.

    I'll take a look at the precedent issues if it shows what players could have been ommited and replaced by accident.

    L'Equipe also added this :

    Le meilleur de chaque pays (best player by country)

    Allemagne : Bierhoff, 6.
    Argentine : Ortega, Veron, 6,40.
    Brésil : Ronaldo, 6,67.
    Croatie : Ladic, 6,21.
    Danemark : B. Laudrup, 6,60
    France : Desailly, Thuram, 7 (but Petit, midfielder, is not far, I'll precise again)
    Italie : Vieri, 6,20.
    Pays-Bas : Davids, 6,33 (and not 6,40 here...so...idk).

    Edit : the same mistakes already appears after the 3rd place match. It doesn't seem that any player was ommited/ replaced though as I looked at older issues too.

    Prior to the little and big Finals (or just after the semi-finals if we prefer) the rankings still include players who were not necessarily quarter-finalists and did not necessarily played 5 (rated) games.
    I'll copy it.
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Those look to be the ratings after the semi-finals.

    Thuram: 7.17* 6 games = 43 (rounded down), 43 minus 8 (his final match grade) = 35, 35 divided by 5 = 7

    Desailly: 7.07* 7 games = 49.5, 49.5 minus 7.5 = 42, 42 divided by 6 = 7

    Ronaldo: 6.67* 6 = 40 (rounded down) after semi-final, 40 plus 4 (final match grade) = 44, 44 divided by 7 = 6.29 (less than Henry's 6.30 over whole tournament)

    Rivaldo: 6.58*6 = 39.5, 39.5 plus 5 = 44.5, 44.5 divided by 7 = 6.36

    I'm not quite sure what is happening with Bergkamp though. 6.4 could be an average over 5 games but if he didn't receive a rating for the 3rd place game I don't know how his rating could go up from 6 to 6.4.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    6.33 for Davids is consistent with a 6 out of 10 for the 3rd place game bringing his score down from 6.4 though.

    Maybe a typo for Bergkamp somewhere?
     
    wm442433 repped this.
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think Asanovic ended on 6.07, and Stam on 5.93. Both after getting a 5.5 in the 3rd place game.
     
    wm442433 repped this.

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