The best games of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It's certainly true that they struggled that season, and there was a relatively significant difference to the season before, although they already conceded a high number of goals (for Serie A in that era - still 4 goals conceded as per the Napoli game of 84/85 with the Maradona display was an outlier for any team in that league back then when it happened), because they scored enough in 83/84 so that their goal difference was only just under -0.5 per game.

    Funnily enough I did have a Laudrup assist from 84/85 (you'll have seen it I think because it's on the latest llaauuddrruupp Youtube compilation 'Enjoy Laudrup' that you posted in one thread not long ago IIRC) under consideration for the video I did yesterday - the dribble down the left and pass to Dell'Anno I think it was, actually in what was effectively an early season relegation game though I suppose - it was for the winning goal vs Cremonese. That would have been two Lazio clips out of 6 total given I included the goal vs Verona from 83/84! Not that the best goals/assists always come in the best seasons (I think 83/84 was pretty good from an individual perspective for Laudrup though apparently, more than 84/85 even if perhaps with peaks and troughs in form with that Verona game being an early peak).
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    When you are statistically either the worst or second worst team in the history of a league these things can happen

    Altobelli scored 4 goals in one match vs catania 1983/84
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    True, and I take on board that they weren't the ultimate defensive team of the league by any stretch (I don't want to try to check, points wise whether you are correct as I'm not bothered either way, but they had a lot of draws to be fair still so maybe teams with less wins had less points, I don't know).

    On the other side, we have (although not all Maradona touches or full game footage as far as I'm aware) some highlights of the game available and can see Maradona's performance so it's not only spreadsheet evidence but also video evidence that can be looked at here. I don't want to argue about that though, so will leave it there (sometimes I get the feeling you now want to knock down any player who is not the alleged rapist or his main footballing rival, but I think I don't want to argue about it as if that's how you want to be that's how you want to be and I won't convince you to be different about that).
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I do acknowledge re: my above comment, it's difficult to know the real 'truth' re: some controversies of players, and for example although especially what he stands accused of now seems pretty bad indeed, I probably won't remove Ryan Giggs from one section of my video series (if it continues as planned up to 125 players), because if I thought he probably made the cut as a player before IMO, then I suppose that doesn't change. In his case he will probably be found guilty or innocent before too long though anyway (although anyone who watched Cornonation Street last night - I know that seems weird as my choice as an exception to preferring Question of Sport which I assume, although with a 'new look' was on BBC1 - will have in mind that sometimes in real life too the wrong verdicts are arrived at, even if that Coronation Street one seemed a bit absurd, especially when the witness/victim evidence is ignored or presumed to be wrongly remembered or something!).
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Accused rapist vs self confessed woman beater?

    i can seperate the man from the player that's a very easy thing for me

    When you are able to do that my friend youll probably be able to fully appreciate what an extraordinary football player he has been

    Its not a topic that necessarily interests me that much(top 5 goals of each player)

    Your model for a great/technically difficult goal would most likely be completely at odds with Optas scientific model which places Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi WAY ahead of the pack when he comes to contemporary players
    https://www.statsperform.com/resource/stats-performs-legends-series-part-two-zlatan-ibrahimovic/


    That's one thing

    But in all honesty if we are working under the premise that Maradona is the greatest
    Player of all time then his best ever performance cannot be against the 2nd worst team in Serie A history(lazio 84/85)

    Doesn't sound logical to me
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    With all due respect I think your sense of morality is a bit all over the place

    Before he allegedly physically assaulted 2 woman

    He impregnated his own brothers wife

    Do we say because it was 'consensual' it is any less worse then very worst crimes in history?

    Impregnating your brother's wife( smiling in his face at the same time)is a capital crime in many cultures.
    Something that is universally viewed to be abhorrent and a betrayal of the highest magnitude


    Lets call a spade a spade
    Ryan giggs is one of the greatest wingers of all time and one of the most despicable human beings in history
     
  7. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    How hot was his brother’s wife? Such temptations can be difficult to resist in certain cases....
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Do you have a biological brother?

    Could you sleep with the mother of your niece/nephew?

    If this is tempting i don't know what to tell you but then you are probably just joking right now
     
  9. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    I don’t have any brothers, so I guess I can’t really relate to it. But I know a sufficiently attractive woman can get most men into all kinds of trouble
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think it's at least got to be worth a grade out of 10 to match his shirt number (the one he was wearing at Barcelona, and is known for the most overall, not the one he wore at Inter probably!).

    It's hard to be sure I suppose with these videos if every touch is shown. If so his involvement in general maybe wasn't extremely high through the game, but his contribution when he was was pretty great, obviously including from the end product point of view (in effect setting up the first goal too, and scoring another himself from an excellent Figo pass which he took in his stride).

    I suppose Compostela didn't have the tightest defence themselves, but then again they were actually a mid-table team that season rather than relegation material, and it was an away game for Barcelona. So it would be a prime contender for best performance by Ronaldo maybe in terms of the performance, although other games where it was a bit more difficult for the team and he contributed crucially and impressively might be argued to be better or more significant perhaps.

    I might have already watched it before but I refreshed my memory if I had anyway.
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It wasn't really my intention when making the video (that was more just to get the cream of available goals and assists by various players on a set of videos with a nominal albeit not definitive countdown; albeit there will be various other options for a lot of players that could be argued to be worth a place too) but I had a think about how I'd rank the goals and assists on the video when grouping them chronologically (first goals of each player vs first each other, through to third assists vs third assists - I mean chronologically in terms of the order on the video, but for example I suspect the first Rivera goal on it which I'm labelling as goal 1 was possibly scored later than goal 2 which was for Italy vs Finland in 1964, but I only saw that Rivera goal on highlights videos, Rivera specific ones and the 3rd part of the Youtube user eckae's top 30 player countdown from back in 2007; so I didn't locate it on any AC Milan season goal videos I don't think)....

    I've come up with this (roughly speaking - at least in general those towards the top I'd see as among the best of them, and those towards the bottom probably not). It's obviously hard to make a judgement though, and it's also not surprising that Moore and Baresi wouldn't fare so well on the basis of goals and assists - I think theirs are still pretty good though to be fair, even if not indicative of what they'd have been doing every month I guess, though I'd think there is more scope to imagine that Moore did get a good number of assists overall while it seems clearer Baresi didn't get very many even if he quite often contributed momentum to the attack with incursions forwards from his sweeper, or later ball-playing centre back role:

    Goal 1: Ronaldo, M.Laudrup, Rivera, Rummenigge, Garrincha, Figo, Gullit, Baggio, Dalglish, Zidane, Muller, Moore, Baresi

    Goal 2: Dalglish, Zidane, Baggio, Rummenigge, Ronaldo, Muller, Figo, M.Laudrup, Garrincha, Moore, Rivera, Gullit, Baresi

    Goal 3: Baggio, Figo, Zidane, Rummenigge, Gullit, Dalglish, Muller, Garrincha, M.Laudrup, Ronaldo, Rivera, Moore, Baresi

    Assist 1: M.Laudrup, Figo, Rummenigge, Gullit, Rivera, Ronaldo, Baggio, Garrincha, Moore, Zidane, Dalglish, Baresi, Muller

    Assist 2: Dalglish, Zidane, Figo, Garrincha, M.Laudrup, Gullit, Baggio, Rivera, Muller, Ronaldo, Rummenigge, Baresi, Moore

    Assist 3: Rivera, M.Laudrup, Figo, Rummenigge, Dalglish, Baggio, Muller, Garrincha, Baresi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Gullit, Moore

    Obviously the quality of the best goals and assists doesn't necessarily reflect the overall prowess with scoring and assisting goals either, and everyone would surely be making slightly different calls on the order (not a request from me, but feel free anyone if you are interested to do so...and even to substitute in a few of your own options you might have included - I'll not redo the video now anyway of course even if I made any changes of my own mind or became aware or re-aware of some other goals/assists, but it would add to the discussion to have some more contenders mentioned).

    Obviously as well the best goals/assists won't necessarily reflect the overall order I have gone with in the countdown, or what the consensus would go with in that respect either. Just like it wouldn't for Premier League players for example, as someone like Le Tissier would probably be considered to rival a Thierry Henry for example much more for best goals/assists than for overall player or peak version player.
     
  12. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    People sometimes make an interesting distinction between “great goal scorers” and “scorers of great goals”.
    I think it’s a valid distinction to an extent, particularly if you’re dealing with deep midfielders or defenders that are known for popping up occasionally with spectacular goals (e.g. Roberto Carlos, Dani Alves, etc).

    But I don’t think being a great goal scorer and a scorer of great goals are entirely independent of each other. If two players have a 1 goal 1 game average, and one of those players scores a great goal every 4 games and the other scores a great goal every 20 games, I’d say the former is a greater goal scorer than the latter.
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #763 carlito86, Sep 12, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
    If i was to pick 5 performances that encapsulate the genuis of a player it would look something like this

    Lionel Messi

    Vs real zaragoza 2009/10(la liga)

    Vs Valencia 2009/10(la liga)

    Vs Levante 2013/14(copa del Rey)

    Screenshot_20210913-012913-1.jpg
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/8...pain-Copa-del-Rey-2013-2014-Levante-Barcelona
    For me this is possibly my favourite performance by any player

    Bayern leverkusen 2011/12(champions league)

    Arsenal 2009/10(champions league)



    Cristiano Ronaldo

    Atletico madrid 2011/12(la liga)

    Roma 2006/07(champions league)

    Arsenal 2008/09(champions league)

    Aston villa 2007/08(premier league)

    Seville 2012/13(la liga)





    Ronaldo nazario

    Valencia 1996/97(la liga)

    Compostela 1996/97(la liga)

    Lecce 1997/98(Serie A)

    Manchester United 2002/03 (champions league)

    Mypa 1995/96
    The most goal involvements he ever had in 1 match(4 goals+2 assists)

    18 years old
     
  14. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    “Best playmaking performance ever”:cry:

    It’s not even Messi’s best playmaking performance (he was easily better than that against Tottenham at Wembley).
    It’s true, modern football fans are completely broken by their obsession with statistically quantifiable aspects of play.

    “OMG he played a pass between the defenders in the back line 3 times, someone call Ted Knut-onmyfacemessi-son over at statsbomb so he can have a triple orgasm”

    it’s like the actual quality demonstrated doesn’t matter, playing a progressive pass under absolutely no pressure at the easiest possible angles against a high defensive line to a speed demon doesn’t make it the “BEST PLAYMAKING PERFORMANCE EVER” no matter how many times he does it over and over again. I don’t care if he had 10 assists in that game doing that exact same pass over and over again.
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #765 carlito86, Sep 13, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    Hater

    Statistically quantifiable aspects of play WIN matches

    Not quantifiable aspects of play(roulettes in midfield,sombreros,ball retention with no end product at the end of it do not win matches)


    See those through ball attempts
    They were with 100% accuracy

    4 peak Michael laudrup esque defence splitting passes in a single match (creating 4 big chances)


    Most legendary playmakers in their best ever matches produce 2 of those with a few fancy ball retention skills

    Its another thing that i dont think youve ever played football at any sort of competitive level

    Those passing angles vs levante
    95% of Pro footballers don't even see them.
    Under pressure or not

    I also don't care about the title
    Hes a Messi fanboy what do you expect

    It could be the best ever or it could not be
    I cant claim to have watched every single performance by a great playmaker in Europe's top 5 leagues and beyond

    Those 5 picks for Messi are what encapsulates his skillset for me
    Tier 1 finishing(arsenal 09/10 and bayern leverkusen 11/12)
    Tier 1 playmaking(levante 13/14)

    And unmatched genius(vs zaragoza and Valencia)

    That spring of 2010 before the world cup is what caused this thread to opened
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/premature-speculation-just-how-good-is-lionel-messi.1392836/page-2
    and many here including the mods like comme believed he had matched the peak of johan Cruyff




    If the title of a youtube video triggers you then you need to get a freaking life
     
  16. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    Are you saying 90% of what playmakers do means nothing compared to having four passes that lead to a shot?
    I guess it’s mysterious if you can’t easily translate a player’s contribution into a number of goals scored, but at the end of the day momentum matters. How much possession the team has in which areas of the field will significantly affect the likelihood of winning matches. If all a playmaker does is be a regular reliable outlet by bypassing pressure then they ARE influencing the result of the game. I mean, if you have a player that can consistently receive forward passes from the defenders, while under pressure, and MOVE IT FORWARD, or even sideways sometimes, instead of being forced backwards or losing possession, then they are winning territorial advantage for their team, increasing their team’s dominance.

    I’d wager taking the ball in midfield from the defence under intense pressure 20 times a game and eliminating the pressure and moving the team forward will help win as many points over 10 games as creating 3 big scoring chances with a pass per game over 10 games.
     
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think if anything it could be both the goal and assist by Gullit which I placed second to last in each case that I could be feeling would arguably be the most hard done by actually.

    The goal being the diving header, and maybe it was a case of bunching other goals together in terms of whether they go above or below it, as it's hard to compare in some ways (but having included it rather than another AC Milan volley, or for example a dribble and left footed shot for Feyenoord, it should at least be in contention against several above it in the list - having said that, the Baresi goal I put below it is pretty impressive indeed itself I'd say).

    The assist (run and cross to Van Basten) is probably treated similarly - going below a few on a marginal/undecided call, though again the Bobby Moore free-kick for West Ham I put below it is certainly a quality delivery, accurate and with curve.


    I might aim to get the Part 1 video done within around a week or so, but I'll see how it goes. Like I said, I should have bonus sections for Platini, Maradona, Cruyff and Pele (including among other clips a disallowed/offside goal by Platini, disallowed/offside assist by Cruyff, and two re-created Pele goals I think; maybe even referring to an apparently exceptional 1977 Maradona dribble goal that @Legolas10 linked to on another thread recently, although I'm not sure as evidently there were plenty of options to consider for Maradona as discussed with calculator, and unlike with the Pele ones there isn't a full simulation it seems, even if the diagram could be pasted into my video too, and if I understand correctly there was a recreation on an advert maybe but it doesn't make it seem very good because the 'defenders' aren't really opposing him and like I say it seems like it was an advert back in the day so more of a piece of entertainment just referencing a great dribble goal...if I understand correctly like I say!).

    It is pretty hard to decide on my choices sometimes anyway (including for Zico, the first player, at #12, on my next video, or for example I already have in mind a tricky choice for a Zola goal because I'm placing him at #110 in the countdown so on the last video which I'm only intending to contain one goal and one assist per player, and there is a Napoli goal he scores in 1989/90 that definitely merits consideration vs the FA Cup goal vs Wimbledon from 96/97 that was my initial idea!).
     
  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think one change I would be making to the order would be to at least do a swap over between the goals 2 and 3 of Laudrup and Garrincha now I think about it. Otherwise I'd be being inconsistent with a previous best World Cup goals selection I made (which would be fine if I'd changed my mind, but I don't really think I have as such). I had Laudrup vs Uruguay at about number 16 in that or at least quite high up somewhere, but didn't put it as among his 'best 3 goals' here, although it's debatable of course. I think I prefer it when compared to the one vs Sporting Gijon for Real Madrid in 94/95 but I went with that one as a top 3 goal by him, but ranked it below Garrincha's vs Chile from the 1962 World Cup which I didn't have above Laudrup's goal vs Uruguay previously (although with relevance to this thread, maybe that's the best Garrincha performance I saw, as I'd go with it over the England one from that World Cup I think despite the ending vs Chile where he gets sent off; I went with that goal vs Chile over the one vs England from outside the box too of course, which could have been an option but I think he had a bit more time to line it up and place it, while the one vs Chile is pretty spectacular as well as precise with his 'wrong leg'!). But yeah I think I could be swapping the Garrincha goal vs Wales and the Laudrup one vs Roma around too anyway.

    I guess that'd still mean I'd be thinking of all those above Laudrup vs Gijon, in my estimation, perhaps being top 20 World Cup goals had they been scored in the World Cup though (Dalglish vs Belgium, Zidane vs Norway, Baggio vs Napoli, Rummenigge vs Bochum, Ronaldo vs Valencia, Muller vs Atletico Madrid, Figo vs Betis). Maybe it starts to make sense that Gullit's diving header could somehow appear near the bottom, with that in mind (as diving headers go it's got to be right up there I'd think - I always liked the Keith Houchen one from the 1987 FA Cup Final, as shown below, but I wouldn't be sure Gullits isn't better as it's certainly from further out - I guess overall the Bennett/Houchen combination matches up pretty closely with the Lombardo/Gullit combination anyway)
    Keith Houchen Diving Header Video 1987 FA Cup Final - YouTube

    Talking of difficult calls I've gone with an all Manchester United set of goals for Bobby Charlton (not assists though), so some famous and great England ones won't be there, most notably another World Cup one maybe - the one vs Mexico (as it happens that game might have the best Bobby Charlton performance I saw, but I mentioned it earlier in the thread anyway - there are a host of new 'Bobby Charlton vs' videos that have been made available in the last year I see though, vs Scotland, Anderlecht, Liverpool, as posted below).
    Sir Bobby Charlton vs Anderlecht 1968 European Cup R16 1st leg (All Touches & Actions) - YouTube
    Sir Bobby Charlton vs Liverpool | MotM Performance at Anfield - YouTube
    Sir Bobby Charlton vs Scotland 1967 Euros Qualifiers (All Touches & Actions) - YouTube
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Copying the list out again, and as well as doing the switch between Laudrup/Garrincha goals, also inserting the four players with confirmed/edited choices from the Part 1 video, and it seems clear that in my own opinion anyway, Zico seems to be the King of the Quality Goals/Assists (obviously with 8 players still to incorporate though that can potentially change that) despite not quite making the top spot at any point.

    Goal 1: Ronaldo, M.Laudrup, Rivera, Rummenigge, Zico vs USSR 1976, Eusebio vs Sporting Lisbon (date uncertain), Garrincha, Puskas vs England 1953 (drag back goal), Figo, Gullit, Charlton vs Tottenham (h) 65/66, Baggio, Dalglish, Zidane, Muller, Moore, Baresi

    Goal 2: Dalglish, Zico (Flamengo free-kick, 1985?), Zidane, Eusebio vs Czechoslovakia 1965, Baggio, Rummenigge, Ronaldo, Muller, Charlton vs Tottenham 67/68 (Charity Shield - 1st goal), Figo, Garrincha, M.Laudrup, Puskas vs Sweden 1955, Moore, Rivera, Gullit, Baresi

    Goal 3: Baggio, Figo, Zidane, Zico scorpion kick goal in Japan 1990, Charlton vs Tottenham* 67/68 (actually not sure now that one is Tottenham as I forget - solo run goal anyway), Rummenigge, Gullit, Dalglish, Puskas vs Barcelona 58/69 (Copa Del Rey), Eusebio vs Sporting Lisbon 72/73, Muller, M.Laudrup, Garrincha, Ronaldo, Rivera, Moore, Baresi

    Assist 1: M.Laudrup, Zico vs Liverpool 1981 (1st goal), Figo, Rummenigge, Gullit, Rivera, Ronaldo, Eusebio vs Sporting Lisbon 65/66, Charlton vs Sporting Lisbon 63/64, Baggio, Garrincha, Moore, Puskas vs England 1953 (Hidegkuti's 2nd goal), Zidane, Dalglish, Baresi, Muller

    Assist 2: Dalglish, Zico vs Italy 1982, Zidane, Figo, Puskas vs England 1953 (Hidegkuti's 3rd goal), Garrincha, M.Laudrup, Gullit, Baggio, Rivera, Muller, Ronaldo, Rummenigge, Baresi, Charlton vs Scotland 1965, Eusebio vs Hungary 1966, Moore

    Assist 3: Rivera, M.Laudrup, Zico vs Napoli 83/84, Eusebio vs Sweden 1967, Figo, Rummenigge, Dalglish, Baggio, Muller, Puskas vs Austria 1955, Garrincha, Baresi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Gullit, Moore, Charlton vs Scotland 1967
     
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Hopefully the processing will finish before too long, and I'll post a link to the part 1 video (with however many edits as necessary to trim or take out certain clips).

    I did put in that assist by Maradona vs Ferro Carril Oeste, in the bonus section, rather than the one to Caniggia in Italia 90 in the end.

    Comparing the goals and assists stage by stage, like before as above, I'd probably rank them something like this (over both parts of the video, and without considering the bonus section which doesn't contain Pele's 1959 and 1961 goals in recreated form - I might just mention them in the comments along with Maradona vs Huracan in 1977 and Di Stefano vs Belgium in 1957):

    Goal 1: Van Basten, Ronaldo, Pele, Laudrup, Rivera, Rummenigge, Zico, Maradona, Cruyff, Eusebio, Garrincha, Puskas, Platini, Figo, Gullit, Charlton, Di Stefano, Best, Baggio, Dalglish, Beckenbauer, Zidane, Muller, Moore, Baresi

    Goal 2: Pele, Van Basten, Dalglish, Maradona, Zico, Zidane, Eusebio, Baggio, Cruyff, Rummenigge, Ronaldo, Best, Platini, Di Stefano, Muller, Charlton, Figo, Garrincha, Laudrup, Puskas, Moore, Rivera, Gullit, Beckenbauer, Baresi

    Goal 3: Van Basten, Baggio, Maradona, Cruyff, Figo, Zidane, Zico, Pele, Charlton, Rummenigge, Best, Gullit, Dalglish, Puskas, Eusebio, Muller, Laudrup, Garrincha, Platini, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Ronaldo, Rivera, Moore, Baresi

    Assist 1: Laudrup, Zico, Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Figo, Rummenigge, Gullit, Rivera, Platini, Ronaldo, Best, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Charlton, Van Basten, Baggio, Garrincha, Moore, Puskas, Zidane, Dalglish, Baresi, Di Stefano, Muller

    Assist 2: Dalglish, Zico, Zidane, Platini, Di Stefano, Figo, Maradona, Puskas, Garrincha, Laudrup, Pele, Cruyff, Gullit, Baggio, Van Basten, Rivera, Best, Muller, Ronaldo, Beckenbauer, Rummenigge, Baresi, Charlton, Eusebio, Moore

    Assist 3: Best, Rivera, Maradona, Cruyff, Platini, Laudrup, Zico, Eusebio, Figo, Rummenigge, Dalglish, Baggio, Pele, Di Stefano, Muller, Puskas, Garrincha, Baresi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Gullit, Beckenbauer, Van Basten, Moore, Charlton
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Best 3 Goals, 3 Assists of suggested Top 25 Football Players of 2nd half 20thCentury Part1 (#12-#1) - YouTube
    Finally got that uploaded. I'll explain the omissions in the morning, but it's mainly intact (for most players it is completely)! The music fits ok, I guess without the cuts affecting that too much, although I suppose I could have aimed to time the ending with Pele's final goal perfectly (probably to the detriment of the content overall if I had though, although if I knew some would definitely be cut maybe I could have left them out in the first place lol - I might have expected it for Van Basten vs USSR or Di Stefano vs Eintracht Frankfurt to be fair although in the past I think including those clips was possible so it was worth a go since they probably should be in the selection, surely the Van Basten one anyway).
     
    wm442433 repped this.
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, so I just went and made a comment on the video, mentioning other 'unviewable' (with actual full video) candidates, and also clarifying that it's Van Basten's goal vs USSR, Di Stefano vs Eintracht Frankfurt (the run from halfway and shot from the edge of the box) and the Di Stefano assist to Puskas vs Benfica in 1962 that had to be removed to stop the video being blocked (plus I cut short the footage on two Beckenbauer assists to make sure viewers in every country could see it).

    The Van Basten vs USSR goal is 'Goal 3' for him, and likewise Di Stefano's missing scenes are 'Goal 3' and 'Assist 3'. It was maybe more obvious on the other video anyway, but the Rummenigge goal vs Bochum that is missing from the published video was 'Goal 2' in his sequence.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Maybe it's a better guide to just try an overall top dozen goals and top dozen assists from those on the video, or at least the original version of it which contained that Van Basten wonder volley (surely not the same as even my own attempt at an all-time version considering all players, although I guess there'd be some decent overlap), so I think I'd end up with something like this (I could probably easily go with any of the top four choices in either list as number 1 though I'd think):

    Goals
    1 - Pele: Goal 2 (vs Bahia 1961)
    2 - Van Basten: Goal 3 (vs USSR 1988)
    3 - Baggio: Goal 3 (vs Udinese 1993/94)
    4 - Maradona: Goal 3 (vs England 1986)
    5 - Cruyff: Goal 3 (vs Haarlem 1981/82)
    6 - Van Basten: Goal 2 (vs Den Bosch 1986/87)
    7 - Dalglish: Goal 2 (vs Belgium 1982/83)
    8 - Van Basten: Goal 1 (vs Feyenoord 1984/85)
    9 - Ronaldo: Goal 1 (vs Compostela 1996/97)
    10 - Pele: Goal 1 (vs Sweden 1958)
    11 - Maradona: Goal 2 (vs Lazio 1984/85)
    12 - Laudrup: Goal 1 (vs Verona 1983/84)

    Assists
    1 - Best: Assist 3 (vs AC Milan 1968/69)
    2 - Dalglish: Assist 2 (vs Watford 1982/83)
    3 - Rivera: Assist 3 (vs Ajax 1968/69)
    4 - Laudrup: Assist 1 (vs Valencia 1989/90)
    5 - Zico: Assist 2 (vs Italy 1982)
    6 - Zico: Assist 1 (vs Liverpool 1981)
    7 - Maradona: Assist 3 (vs Juventus 1987/88)
    8 - Cruyff: Assist 3 (vs Feyenoord 1974/75)
    9 - Zidane: Assist 2 (vs Dynamo Kiev 1997/98)
    10 - Platini: Assist 3 (vs Pisa 1983/84)
    11 - Platini: Assist 2 (vs USSR 1983)
    12 - Di Stefano: Assist 2 (vs France 1957/58)

    That's without considering the disallowed goals, but I guess I wouldn't quite have put Platini's one (a goal that might have been allowed and certainly would be today) in there anyway, although probably would have included the Cruyff assist (on a disallowed goal which would lead to lines being drawn all over the screen today probably!).

    Interesting to think about whether those sorts of goals and assists came in generally great individual performances or not (to try to bring things fully back on topic re: this thread)....
    I'm not whether sure Zico vs Liverpool has been posted in the thread yet but here it is, and it's a signature game for him of course
    Zico vs Liverpool: Copa Intercontinental 13/12/1981 - YouTube
    Di Stefano vs France is available too, and it can even be suggested that in some ways he was a better player than vs Eintracht Frankfurt two years later
    Alfredo Di Stéfano vs France | 1958 Friendly | All touches & actions - YouTube

    I wouldn't say for the whole game George Best vs AC Milan fits the thread really I don't think (when I viewed the game and then made Rivera vs Man Utd myself I thought I'd rate Rivera's performance over Best's over the 90 minutes I remember), but he starts to play very well in the 2nd half I think (not only with the assist) and someone has made a video for that performance too I see
    George Best vs AC Milan 1969 European Cup Semi Final 1st leg (All Touches & Actions) - YouTube

    A few of the others have already been mentioned on the thread of course, and I made the Dalglish vs Belgium one myself (for Ceulemans of Belgium too)
    Jan Ceulemans & Kenny Dalglish (Belgium vs Scotland 1982) - YouTube
    I see that Barcelona vs Valencia of 1989/90 is available to view in full now too by the way. Maybe I'll even make a Michael Laudrup (or Laudrup plus another player) video myself again, if the whole performance seemed like a 9 out of 10 one or something, but I'll see (I'm still thinking of uploading another video of that type for some player/s anyway, as well as carrying on gradually with these goals/assists for the suggested top 125 outfield players of the 2nd half of last century - I won't get the next part done extremely soon though anyway).

    Baggio got an 8 for the Udinese game from Guerin Sportivo, but was top of the weekly 'hit parade' ranking, as shown by Vegan10 on his thread:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Laudrup got a 7 vs Verona, with close to that as an average for the Guerin d'Oro sources combined (meaning just making a top 10 foreigner rating for that opening weekend of Serie A)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Sorry, no, it's the game in Valencia which is available in full actually I realise now (with also a 2-1 score to the home team, which in that case was Valencia).
     

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