Partly inspired by the current trend towards bigger wide/flair players (contrasted with the fairly common claim taller players simply can't compete with players with a lower center of gravity in this area), partly just driven by idle OCD. Using the metric system is strongly encouraged here. Ties/ranked choices are allowed if and where you find them necessary. List (some) current players separately if you like. Argue about players' heights if you have to. Some notable benchmarks to get started: (Per Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.) Maradona (1.65/1.67 - shorter elsewhere) Messi (1.70) Pele (1.73/1.70) Zico (1.72) Best (1.75) Neymar (1.75) Cruyff (1.78/1.80) 1.80 -- Robben, Figo and Savicevic, per both sources Ronaldo Nazario (1.83/183 - elsewhere can be shorter) Michael laudrup (1.83/1.82) George Weah (universally 1.85, but I swear some sites used to list him higher) Brian Laudrup (1.86) Kaka (1.86) Cristiano Ronaldo (1.87/1.88) Thierry Henry (1.88) Gullit (1.91? Also, this) Ibrahimovic (1.97) Kanu (1.97) Some of these numbers have definitely trended higher over time. Currently, Musiala, Yamal, Leao, Kvaratskhelia, Doue, Luis Diaz, Mbappe, and others are all around 1.80 (1.78 per some sources) or taller. Doku (1.73) may just be the final short king standing outside of midfield.
Among the "bumblebee" dribblers (you know the story, the bumblebee is not supposed to be able to fly based on established science, but he is not aware of this and so he gets to fly whenever he wants: of course it is a myth, science absolutely does not say the bumblebee can not fly) I would cite Socrates: 1.92 m tall, he had the ball glued to his foot all the time in the close manouvers as well as at speed.
Faas Wilkes' height seems to be stated as 184cm in a few places, but I think the 190cm on this PES stats page might be more like it (if there would be a similar height difference between him and Di Stefano as between Ronaldinho and Messi for example which seems feasible I'd think): Habilidades Servaas Wilkes on X: "#FotosMiticas Alfredo Di Stéfano y Faas Wilkes posan con la camiseta del Valencia CF. Ambos jugaron un partido amistoso con el equipo che el 22 de mayo de 1955 en Mestalla contra Vasco de Gama (3-3). Los dos marcaron. https://t.co/JVHfiRDMLq" / X
Towards the other end of the scale, I'd also err towards the higher height (but still 'short') for Omar Sivori I'd think (comparing to Jose Altafini who might not be very much taller, or Maradona who was probably shorter it seems like for example): "Omar Sivori's height is 170 cm (5 ft 7 in), according to multiple sports data websites and his IMDb profile. Some sources, including his English and Simple English Wikipedia pages, list his height as 1.63 m (5 ft 4 in). "
Glad to see you mentioned Kanu, he was one of the most unique players i've ever watched. Some of the most ridiculous ball control for any height, and he was 6ft5! I think his feet were actually so big that it was detrimental to his shooting ability which was wildly inconsistent, but god he was fun to watch when he was on form. He was a real showman as well, he would do his "scoop turn" skill all the time with a very high success rate, the only other player i've seen do it regularly is ideon ighalo who I would guess was inspired by his nigerian compatriot
Apparently I’ve had some thoughts. Rather than actually paring them down a bit, I just stuck them all into the list: 1.62: Jimmy Jhonstone – 1.63: Omar Sivori – height disputes aside. Allain Giresse? ~1.65: Maradona – possibly the greatest dribbler full-stop. Marco Verratti might just occupy a similar position in terms of press-resistance. 1.66: Thomas Hassler 1.67: ?? 1.68: probably either Paco Gento or Pierre Littbarski. Raymond Kopa, Romario and Zola were also all about this height. 1.69: Garrincha (Rivellino) – it’s notable that most players to this point have been one shade of vintage or another. 1.70: Messi – the next best next Maradona, Ariel Ortega, is also the same height. Eden Hazard is probably either 1.70 or 1.75. 1.71: Andres Iniesta - I always thought he looked smaller than Messi. Possibly the most intricate, premeditated dribbler that I’ve seen. 1.72: in vaguely “modern” times, Zico. Ferenc Puskas was probably this many talls. 1.73: Pele 1.74: Roberto Baggio Dragan Dzajic is a very credible threat at either 1.74 or 1.78. 1.75: Possibly the true median height here. Best and Neymar (likely in that order) are at most a step behind the greatest dribblers in history. Paulo Futre, Stanley Matthews, and Gianni Rivera are among the other players worth mentioning here. 1.76: probably Vinicius Jr. 1.77: Paul Gascoigne? May or may not be the most dynamic midfielder of his type. I’m not sure whether that should be quite enough to land this spot. 1.78: Johan Cruyff 1.79: Sandro Mazzola was this tall. I can’t really say whether he was the best. Barcelona seem to list Yamal at this height now: it’s vaguely possible he’s aging backwards. Joaquin and Riyad Mahrez almost certainly exist. 1.80: it’s quite possibly Savicevic, but for now I’ll give the edge to Robben, a more explosive player tested under every possible extremity, and one I’m simply that much more familiar with. Also-runs are still fairly numerous at this gradation. 1.81: Desire Doue is this tall. I choose to believe IMDB when they say so is Ronaldinho. 1.82: Michael Laudrup 1.83: Ronaldo Nazario Kvaratskhelia and Chris Waddle are usually listed here. (Sometimes 1.88 for the latter – I assume that’s somewhat optimistic.) Sane, Boban and Prosinecki may all be worth a mention. 1.84: I think it’s probably Jamal Musiala, but he’s far from fully proven at this point. Mario Kempes was around this high. 1.85: I’ll take George Weah. Ginola and Steve McManaman are some of the alternatives. I also would have loved to have more ready footage of Le Tissier. 1.86: Brian Laudrup – does anyone still think of him as the more talented Laudrup, or was that sort of thing mostly done with in the Nineties? Around this height, a lot of players seem to develop fairly distinct styles. Kaka, Zidane, Yaya Toure (1.88), and others were all dangerous dribblers in largely different ways. The Ronaldos, Ronaldinho, Weah, and Cristiano, while more orthodox, all incorporated fancy footwork, trickery, and skills into their game. Also, we’ve decided that Ruud Gullit is this tall. So are Gareth Bale and Rivaldo. 1.87: Cristiano Ronaldo - was he literally as good a dribbler as someone of his size could get, as some of his fans like to claim? I’d think the Laudrups and R9 would belie that claim most clearly, but I’m open to suggestions. Was he better at it than Henry? 1.88: Thierry Henry. Raphael Leao and Yaya Toure are this height. 1.89: Adriano 1.90: Isak and Ekitike are both listed at this height. Frank Rijkaard was quite classy on the ball, if not a particularly noteworthy dribbler. This seems to be a reasonable place to ask whether midfielders of this size could ever be as press-resistant as the more modern hobbitses. Finidi George must have dribbled once. PDG1978 mentions Faas Wilkes. 1.91: Paul Pogba. Patrick Kluivert. 1.92: Socrates 1.93: ?? 1.94: ?? 1.95 Ibrahimovic – he was quite skillful earlier in his career, although at this point I sometimes struggle to remember it – as much for how increasingly out of place and forced his touch and dribbling seemed at Barca over that season as for anything that followed. 1.96: ?? 1.97: Nwaknwo Kanu – basically a unicorn. A lack of further mentions at most heights doesn’t necessarily imply a lack of options. Ariel Ortega isn't really the third best Maradonai. But I do think he was the second most talented after Messi
Is he? He's listed at 1.83 just about everywhere I've looked (or 1.88 when he's not), which seemed slightly low, but not necessarily too far off. I've had a very brief look at some pictures just now though, and yeah, I guess that's possible. We may as well mention that Van Basten could actually run at players before his injuries. He's another player whose height seems overly negotiable, but if nothing else, I'm sure Italian TV captions billed him at 1.88cm and 80kg at one point. (That may still be slightly high, though. Only Rijkaard seems to have escaped shenanigans.)
It's difficult with the older players, but maybe Bernard Vukas seems potentially a better dribbler, but less good player (could even be wrong on both counts to be fair/honest though I guess in theory!) than Iniesta. Ferenc Bene is listed at that height too itv seems. If Rob Rensenbrink happened to be 179 (rather than 178 as commonly listed, or 180 as seems more likely to me maybe) then there could be a slot for him perhaps. Safet Susic might be the challenger to Baggio? Luis Figo could be an option for 180cm I think too. Ricardo Bochini for 168cm (if that is correct)? Waddle isn't less than 188cm I don't think (could be slightly taller if anything), and MvB and Gullit/Rijkaard are all close in height and probably all 188cm or more (189cm or more might be my guesstimate)....
This website says 185cm, more than the common 183, but yeah some say 189. I never thought he was as tall as Henry (or cited as such) but when they're together he doesn't seem much shorter to be fair: Dennis Bergkamp (Player) | National Football Teams I don't know whether 'real-time' pre-season listings (by clubs) would have the most accurate listings? Finding those could be hard for a lot of players though I guess. Sources like this could be accurate I'd think (a general internet search seems to put him at 6"1 i.e 185cm himself!): England Players - Peter Thompson He's here at 7:38 for example (5"8 seems much more like it - same height as Pele maybe so he's probably not a candidate there re: this thread): Feet to CM (ft to cm) Conversion - Formula, Facts, Examples I could wonder about Florian Wirtz for 176cm (if that's even correct!), although it seems like his dribbling highlight reel footage can be somewhat misleading when compared to regular full game footage.
That same website puts Tom Finney effectively as a 171cm option too though (rather than 172cm, though I'd think he could also be an option there even if 1970s Zico is not an easy one to be chosen over maybe - in the 80s he had his moments but like I said re: Wirtz I think they could be a bit misleading re: his general play and dribbling in it - I also wouldn't really think of Bergkamp as an option for dribbling as such as I don't see it as a speciality of his or something he looked to do a lot, even though he could be good with it at times and certainly extending dribbling to using tight skills to move the ball away from a defender and suchlike would bring him more into it, like it would with Zidane obviously for example too....): England Players - Tom Finney It seems to be more often suggested/disputed that Finney was a better overall player than Matthews (not to say a majority UK opinion or something back in the day or now, even if some surveys of ex-managers could sometimes go that way in effect re: all-time XIs or whatever) than that he was a better dribbler, and Finney said Matthews was the best dribbler himself, but a little bit from footage and moreso from testimony it seems clear Finney was a notable name for dribbling himself still at his peak....
Good morning mate. My comparison to Florian Wirtz were more about style than height. If it's by height maybe Musiala is closer but Musiala I think focuses more on scoring rather than creating but both are much talented dribblers although Musiala is taller
Morning mate, actually I hadn't noticed you mention Wirtz, but thought of him as an option myself (you did help bring him to my attention when he was less famous I remember in the first place though!). Yeah, Wirtz is a bit akin to a Bochini from the old days (or to an extent a Michael Laudrup) in being able to combine effortless dribbling with precision 'slide-rule passing' (with defenders unable to be sure which he will choose at any moment) I guess....
In fact I mentioned Wirtz on the other thread and I thought you were referring to this lol but okay. Musiala is a good one for 1.84 but he's already included in the op
I did mention Figo in the opening post. 1.80 is quite stacked though, with Figo, Barnes, Rensenbrink, Rep, and probably some others I'm forgetting at the moment, and even the likes of Suarez and Totti behind them -- players who didn't necessarily stand out for their dribbling in particular, but could nonetheless move about quite well in their primes. Ultimately, I think the top two are at least a step above them. Players at less well-represented heights include Rai (1.89), Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (1.82 - I think he's in some company, but I probably should have gotten more meticulous about noting it at around this point), Florian Albert (1.81), and Kubala (1.76). (Albert in particular seems much smoother than I was expecting. Hidegkuti's listed at 1.79, but I've to yet to get around to looking for his footage.) Redondo and, if he counts, Roberto Dinamite are yet more players to mention at 1.86. I've found very few properly short dribblers in modernity. Players like Giovinco, Piatti, and Aaron Lennon at up to ~1.65 could be exciting to watch, and forged reasonably successful careers, but are far shouts from earlier specialists. Allan Simonsen and Rene Houseman (as well as the previously mentioned Giresse) were still much more successful in the late Seventies at around 1.65 (though Houseman had never really left Argentina). All I really know about Bochini is that he was a master of "la pausa", which makes him sound vaguely like a different type of ball carrier. I've looked at far too many photos of the Milan Dutchmen (give or take a Bergkamp). I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how tall any of them is anymore.
So are there any conclusions to be drawn from all of this? How much does a short stature really contribute to either dribbling abilty or press-resistantce? Is there anything behind the ~recent trends up beyond demographic distribution? And most importantly: - Who's the better Laudrup at this one specific skill? - Can Cristiano claim to be the greatest dribbler at around his height?