I meant simply this. Since Athletic Bilbao has an only-Basque player policy for its first team (or any other team I believe), it would logically make sense if the fans of Athletic made racist noises against players of African origin on opposing sides. Why? Because none of their players are black. Whereas Real Madrid's ultras commit these acts blatantly against opposing black players completely forgetting that their own stars are also black. Thus, it just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying that Athletic Bilbao fans or Basques are racists. I don't recall ever reading about racist behavior from any of the major Basque sides (Athletic Bilbao, Real Sociedad, Osasuna or Alaves) so forgive me if the comment seemed to suggest that they were.
Er, a wild stab in the dark... Rumanian. What, 'cause their eyes were too close together you mean? Still, they all look alike, don't they... those Anglo-Saxons.
That is what I thought you meant, I apologize if I was a litlle touchy on the subject. Thank you for the clarification.
THE FRENCH SAYS IN L'EQUIPE THAT THE SPANIARDS ARE "TOLERANT" Zidane: "It would be a triviality to say that Spain is a racist country" Zinedine Zidane was categorical when indicating that "Spain is not a racist country" and attributed to "a simple minority that wants to seed the panic" the acts registered in the last days, whose repercussion has been greater because in Spain soccer are more mass media following. "the problem of racism exists anywhere in the world. Here there are so many mass media, the television is so present that it is spoken more. But I do not have the impression that absolutely Spain is a racist country. I believe that the great majority of the Spaniards is rather cosy, tolerant. It would be a triviality to say that Spain is a racist country ", assured the player to the newspaper ' L'Equipé. Zidane recognized to have lived with difficulty the racist acts that have had in Spain, "like a any person on foreign origin", but it blamed of them "to a minority that wants to cause panic and that it is spoken of them". "and they obtain it. It is the objective of that people, is its life. All together ones we must fight to them, but that minority will be difficult to make it disappear ", commented. poor translation using babelfish but you get the idea this is coming from a man who was subject to abuse as a youth in france. comin from an algerian muslim family it was hard for zizou, but he claims spain is no different to anywhere else, it is just minority
a more readable source...... Spain is not a racist country, says Zidane Fri 3 December, 2004 11:44 PARIS, Dec 3 (Reuters) - Zinedine Zidane says Spain is "not a racist country" despite the abuse hurled at black players during domestic and international matches last month. "I really don't have the feeling that Spain is a racist country," the Real Madrid playmaker was quoted as saying by sports daily L'Equipe on Friday. "I think that a big majority of Spaniards are rather welcoming, rather tolerant. It would be stupid to say that Spain is a racist country." The issue of racism in Spanish football hit the headlines last month after visiting black players were abused at Spain's friendly with England, a Real Madrid-Bayer Leverkusen Champions League match and the Barcelona v Getafe Primera Liga game. Zidane, who ended his international career after Euro 2004 and played in France and Italy before joining Real Madrid, said the problem was "the same everywhere". "I think, however, that the people in question are a minority whose only goal is to wreak havoc, to be in the limelight. It's their life. We have to fight them together but it will be difficult to get rid of them. "In Spain, you have so much media, television channels have such an impact, that when incidents occur they are talked about a lot more," he added.
Spain launches anti-racism crackdown MADRID (Ticker) - The Spanish Anti-Violence Commission has outlined a plan of action to help eradicate racism from soccer. The Anti-Violence Commission, which is comprised of members from Spain's Autonomous Communities, the Ministry for the Interior and the Sporting Federations, has expressed its concerns about recent events in the sport. The problem initially surfaced when Spain coach Luis Aragones made offensive comments about Arsenal striker Thierry Henry and, when asked to explain them before a friendly international match between Spain and England, responded with a outburst about Britain's colonial past. http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_y...--?slug=spainantiracialplan&prov=st&type=lgns
Roberto Carlos presents shirt to former Ultra Sur leader MADRID, May 9 (Reuters) - Real Madrid fullback Roberto Carlos has been shown presenting his shirt to the former leader of the club's radical group of Ultra Sur fans following his side's 5-0 victory over Racing Santander on Saturday. Spanish daily El Pais published photographs on Monday of the Brazilian international giving Jose Luis Ochaita his shirt and said that it was to be used in a raffle to raise funds to subsidise trips made by the group's members to away matches. Ochaita was banned from stadiums for three years in 1998 for trying to attack the referee in a Real Madrid-Barcelona basketball game and was among eight Ultras Sur arrested in Germany in the same year for displaying Nazi flags and swastikas prior to a Champions League match. http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_y...wN0aA--?slug=reu-shirt&prov=reuters&type=lgns http://www.elpais.es/recorte.php?xref=20050509elpepidep_11&id=LCO&type=Ies
Re: Roberto Carlos presents shirt to former Ultra Sur leader Yeah, can somebody find more info out about this? I would not be happy with RC if this actually is true, although I don't understand why he, a non-white player, would want anything to do with a neo-Nazi group...
I want to be nice and not insult. All I'm going to say is that you know very little about the law, racism, and life for that matter. You CANNOT proudly be a nazi and hold a government position or any position in the workforce. There is something in this country and in almost every civilized country called "racial discrimination in the work place." You get a job and tell someone that you're "proud" to be a nazi, and affiliated with a nazi organization and see how long you last. The very fact that you are affiliated with such an offensive organization would be considered detrimental to the working environment and you would be terminated. Your very notion that it would be tolerated is as idiotic as your claim that you can do whatever you want at a soccer game because you have freedom of speech. A soccer game, basketball game, concert, circus, have certain "rules of conduct" (along with every "freedom" in this world) that cannot be violated or you'll be thrown out or incarcerated. As much of a right you think that people have to yell profanity, or perform racially discriminative gestures, the person/s sitting in front of that person/s also have the same right to not have to hear it (especially if you find it personally offensive). If you make a complaint to security, they'll tell them to restrain, if it continues, they will be kicked out. If it is tolerated, it's because the fans/security/or organization as a whole choose to tolerate the nonsense.
sorry to get this off-topic, but i disagree hristo. to begin with, i do not know the law, this is all just what i assume to be true. if one were to be hired to a position, then it is known that (s)he was a nazi/kkk member/etc, it would be illegal to fire them for that reason. sure in a gov't position there would probably be another reason, a 'legitimate' one to fire them, but to fire them solely for being affiliated with said group would be illegal discrimination.
The key to this argument is in the coworkers. Again, everybody has a "right" to join whatever club/organization they want to. But in this case, with an organization like the KKK, who's history is well documented and pointless to reaccount, an employer has every right to deny someone employment (if the person makes their association known) because he can deem their affiliation as hostile and therefore would be a detriment to the workplace. Look at it this way. You come to an office building spewing hate speech, and racial remarks. What's going to happen to you? So, in order for an employer to avoid confrontation between the member and coworkers, he/she can deny employment. The thing is, rarely does someone come out and say that they belong to the kkk (for obvious reasons). I mean, if it were a "good" thing, they'd go ahead and put it on their resume.
Another thing, the law becomes a little shadier if the person is ALREADY employed. Although I'm not 100% sure, all it woulud take would be for ONE coworker to find out that he/she is affiliated with the kkk, and be able to prove it. The coworker says (and rightly so), that they feel racially discriminated against, and the person is gone.
Question? I would assume that some (probably all) of the fans causing the commotion have season tickets. Therefore, wouldn't Madrid have access to the seating charts and be able to determine the name/s of the people causing the problems? This goes for all teams. ??? I've seen this done in baseball and football, where fans have been later arrested at home, due to the conduct at the field.
You can't fire someone, or not hire them, based on any group affiliations they might have. The "potential" for creating a detrimental workplace is usually not enough to not hire someone. Similarly, one cannot deny someone a job because of a religious affiliation, race, etc. This is getting off-topic, however...
First of all, most of you couldn't be more off then you are. The KKK is NO LONGER A "LEGAL" ORGANIZATION. I don't know where most have you been, but it's been like that for more than 50 years I believe. So for you to compare it to religion is ludicrous. I still can't even begin to believe I have to be telling you guys this. "Yes, I am a KKK member, I hate Blacks, hispanics, jews, anything not pure. I stand for hatred, terror, and murder. It is a clear practice of my group to beat, hang, and murder people. But hey, I have freedom of speech, so hire me!." This isn't the 1920's anymore fellas. Lawsuits reign supreme now. WOW
You are both correct in the USA context. Religious affiliation, race and gender are clearly protected under US employment law. The KKK does not enjoy any religious classification at all. At most, a member of the KKK could claim that their First Amendment rights (free speech) were violated. However, infringement of First Amendment rights is generally NOT an employment claim. Unless you have a contract, most employment stateside (USA) is "at will." People are let go every day for a myriad of reasons not strictly tied to individual performance. If employers deem that active members of the KKK would pollute the work environment and should be let go, they would be free to do so.
Exactly, if you are a KKK member, or no member at all, I can go in the middle of the street and yell "i hate ****" until my throat tears apart, and nothing can be done to me. But if you are in a soccer venue, or workplace, it can't be done, and by PROCLAIMING yourself a kkk member, your very involvement in the organization is enough grounds to bring up racial disrcrimination. Even if you never said anything. Anyway, back to the stadium issues. With all the digital abilities and technology nowadays, to me it seems very simple to use the television shots taking during the game to determine exactly who it is that is causing these problems, and cancel their season tickets, or ban them from attending games in the future.
And by all means, none of my statements are directed to madrid, but to all teams and fans in general.
Re: Roberto Carlos presents shirt to former Ultra Sur leader I don't think he knew who that guy was... it makes not sense at all if he knew him.