Ok, but you have a big black population in England, that’s where politics kick in. Sadly, we don’t have a black population and there for politicians could care less.
And I can hardly agree that this will stop racism....so we shall see, 100 years from now when we still face the same exact problem. Unless we all fvck each other and become a bunch of brown people....but then prolly our hate would be based on the color of our eyes.
A few years ago Everton fan brought black jersey on the pitch and gave it to african player of Everton(don't remember his name though).Racistic things happens everywhere not only in Madrid,and l'm sure that England is one of the leading countries in this.BTW, I'm white and I was abused racially few times.
i do not believe this was a racist act. the player was in the worst form of his life and so a fan came on and offered his shirt to the player so that he could swap it for the evrton one nyarko was wearing. his point was that nyarko was that bad a player that the fan could do better! i also have never witnessed racism in England, ever..apart from last weekend on yorke and i believe this only came as a result of recent events in spain.i know i am and young, and before my time it did occur. England have stamped it out, but repeats of it in spain will bring it back all over europe as people admire real madrid! before every liverpool match i go to the announcer gives a big speach about racism not being tolerated, and if you see someone you should tell the nearest steward. this has actually happened, and fans have been removed, thsi is how we stamp it out in england, and i suggest the ultra sur group get kicked out of the bernabeu, or told to stop, because then only the guilty are being punished!
Ultra Sur is not the problem its the other people that go in along with the regulars not everybody there is a neo nazi so quit talking like they are and its not just madrid fans its fans all around the world maybe sky tv should worry about fans in england rather than in madrid all the british are just loving how spain is getting a bad rap for this and like banning that one guy is gonna stop everybody else from saying things good luck Arriba España
Your condescending tone makes it seem like I don't know the fact that SPain is a democracy. But even in democracies, freedom of expression is curtailed to an extent. Don't tell anyone to live with something that incites hate against another kind of people. You're using American standards of the First Amendment, but even in First Amendment jurisprudence, fight words or expressions have no place in even the most progressive of justices' courtrooms. Spain's democracy my friend is fledgling when even compared to Germany... and the people there have it right. The country that gave birth to Nazism has had the utmost decency to ban any related paraphernalia and such so that possession or expression will result in an arrest. Henceforth Real Madrid Ultra Sur fans who waved Nazi flags and gave the "Sieg Hiel" salutes in games against Borussia Dortmund back in 1997-98 season were arrested. Pacifist attitudes like your's make people sick. I understand that you might think of my comments as a slight against Real Madrid. Not at all. There are plenty of decent Real Madrid supporters who disapprove just as there are decent Barcelona fans (such as myself) who hate racist Boixios Nois elements. They are the ******** of football.
I am a Hindu and for a fact know that the swastika is a symbol of note in Hinduism. Hitler tarnished this symbol while using it for his case for world domination. Shame really, but the swastika symbol IS NOT a symbol of hatred, but rather a symbol created to mean hatred by an idiot.
No, your comments were against my point of view, I still stand by what I say, Freedom for everyone to FEEL what they want to feel, you sir are a type of person that lives in a dream, where lepricons and butterflies run with happiness under the blue sky, you live in LA LA land bro. I am a Minority of all minorities in America and I salute whoever has the balls to go out and Rally to show that they hate me; at least they’re not waiting till I turn my back to say that I am not wanted here, but guess what? They can’t do Sh!t about it. The KKK used to hold rallys a block away from where I worked, I believe in those freedoms even when I completely disagree with them. So I don’t know why my statement made you sick and its beyond me how you predicted it make “people” as you put it sick. You obviously have a problem with the team it self (Real Madrid) hence your nasty and generalizing statements, because we all already agreed with you the racism is wrong, only some (like me) think that it’s a problem world wide and not just in Spain. I hope your not one of those “closed door racists” that go and preach love and wisdom in public but are true bigots in their bathrooms, most people you hear say, “I have black friends” “My best friend is an Arab/Jew” are sometimes the biggest racists of them all.
Please, please try and understand this very simple point... preferably before one of us drops dead from old age. Racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamaphobia, etc., are everywhere to some extent. It's not a question of stopping racism... it's a question of making it clear to those that feel that way that their views are not acceptable in a civilised society. I can't stop someone feeling something but I can make it extremely unpleasant for them when they express it. If we do vigorously enough these people, (more likely, their offspring), will slowly realise that almost everyone else disagrees with them and, because nobody likes to feel marginalised in their own society, they will alter their views. This isn't just a belief... I've seen it in action in my own country over the past 40-50 odd years.
UEFA to probe alleged racism at Madrid match MADRID, Nov 25 (Reuters) - Real Madrid are being investigated by UEFA into alleged racist chanting at the Bernabeu Stadium during a Champions League game against Bayer Leverkusen. UEFA made Thursday's announcement a week after world governing body FIFA said it would investigate alleged racist jibes against England's black players during an international friendly with Spain at the same stadium. "During the Group G game at the Santiago Bernabeu stadium, fans were seen making Nazi salutes while racist chanting was heard, directed at Leverkusen's black players," UEFA said on its website on Thursday. http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-championsmadrid&prov=reuters&type=lgns
When I moved from Europe to US,as every immigrant I lived first in not quite best neighbourhood.My 8 years daughter had to live with abuse from blacks everyday.She cried every morning,because she was afraid go to school.There was no problem with others ,just blacks.Can somebody tell me why.She was born in country,where lived probably 20 black people in all.And we never been associated with slavery.I'm sure she never seen black person in her life,before coming here,only on TV.I've been successful,and it allowed me to buy house in suburbs,where she started to enjoy school.What about thousands who still live there?Do you think she'll love black's when she'll grow up?Do you think I should love them for that?And you complaining about few monkey chants?Unbelievable.Thousands of Iraqies die everyday,because some rich and powerfull ************** decided to make even more money,and you're complaining about few monkey chants?There are bigger problems in this world.
Yes... and they won't be solved by allowing people to get away with racist chants or comments - they'll be made worse because they imply it's acceptable to do such things.
The only people who can answer that question are the people who gave your daughter a difficult time at school. I hope when she grows up, she'll have a greater context of experiences and understanding to inform her opinions. The existence of greater problems in the world doesn't diminish the impact of racism upon those who are subjected to it. Speaking only for myself, if I didn't voice my objection to racism where I see it, I would not be able to face friends of mine who would be subject to the same kind of treatment. Thierry Henry, Ashley Cole, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Roberto Carlos, and all black athletes in question deserve to compete and live with dignity.
http://www.as.com/articulo.html?d_date=&xref=20041126dasdaiftb_13&type=Tes&anchor=dasftbA00 "El Real Madrid ha abierto una investigación sobre los espectadores que, localizados en el fondo del estadio acotado para las Ultra Sur, mostraban símbolos nazis y abuchearon el pasado martes a los jugadores negros del Bayer Leverkusen. Estas pesquisas se siguen en colaboración con la policía y hasta el momento se ha podido concluir desde el club que, "con casi total certeza", los tres aficionados más significados en su comportamiento racista eran extranjeros (aunque, como se ve en la imagen superior, había otros que hacían el saludo fascista). " "Real Madrid has opened an investigation on the spectators who, located at zone of the stadium limited for the Ultra Sur, showed Nazi symbols and booed the last tuesday to the black players of the Bayer Leverkusen. These investigations are being executed in collaboration with the police and until the moment it has been possible to conclude that, "with almost total certainty", the three fans more meaning in their racist behavior were foreign (although, as we can see in in the superior image, there were others making the salute facist)." "Repasados los testimonios de los miembros de seguridad y las imágenes de las cámaras UCO (Unidad de Control Operativo), el Real Madrid ha descubierto que a esos tres individuos les fue requisada una bandera rumana y hablaban en un idioma extranjero que todavía no ha podido ser determinado. A falta de confirmar su nacionalidad, según los expertos, su aspecto no corresponde a la estética Ultra Sur, sino a la de los hooligans anglosajones, aunque en el momento de acceder a las gradas se abrigaban con cazadoras y ninguno mostraba su torso, como hicieron después, momento en el que se pudo ver que tenían tatuajes nazis (esvásticas e imágenes de Hitler). Ese comportamiento se entiende, por algunas fuentes, como alevoso y premeditado. Hay que recordar que la cadena inglesa de televisión Sky colocó una cámara en ese fondo y luego se refirió a esos incidentes concretos como "una nueva vergüenza en España". "Reviewed the testimonies of the security members and the images of cameras UCO (Operative Control unit), Real Madrid has discovered that a Rumanian flag was confiscated to those three individuals and that they spoke in a foreign language that still not have been able to determine. Wating to confirm its nationality, according to the experts, its aspect does not look like Ultra Sur, they look like Anglo-Saxon holligans, although at the moment that they gain access stands they weared jackets and they didn't showed its torso, like they did later, moment at which it was possible to see that they had Nazi tattoos (swastika and images of Hitler). That behavior is understood, by some sources, like premeditaded. It is necessary to remember that the English Channel of Sky news placed a camera in that zone of the stadium and later (the channel) said about that concrete incidents " A new Shame in Spain" . "Entraron abono. El Real Madrid trabaja en la identificación de estos tres individuos, que no aparecen en ninguno de los vídeos de otros partidos que se han visionado, por lo que se cree que era la primera vez que pisaban el Santiago Bernabéu. El siguiente paso es averiguar quién les dejó los abonos para acceder a esa zona." They entered with season tickets. Real Madrid works in the identification of these three individuals, they don't appear in any of the videos of other games that have been watched, for that reason it thinks that it was the first time that they were on Santiago Bernabéu. The following step is to find out who let them season tickets to enter to that zone. "El recinto que el club habilitó para reconducir a los Ultra Sur (agrupación no registrada como peña), 800 localidades, está acotado por una cristalera y su acceso está muy vigilado: es necesario pasar cacheos, por un arco detector de metales y desde allí no se permite el acceso a otras partes del estadio. De esas 800 entradas, 700 de ellas corresponden a socios abonados que pueden transferir su abono a otra persona (el club lo permite a todos los abonados desde 2001), lo que convierte al invitado en incontrolable. Las cien entradas restantes se venden por seis euros a ultras identificados" The limited area that the club fit out to rehabilitate/ reeducate/have controlled the Ultra Sur (group nonregistered as official supporter group(peña)), 800 seats, is limited by sheets of strong grass and the access to that area is very is watched: it is necessary to pass friskings, by a metal detector and you can't go to others zones of the stadium from that area. Of those 800 seats, 700 (Note of MadridForever: RM has expelled a lot of Ultra Sur since Florentino is president) of them correspond to season tickets holders who can transfer their season tickets to another person (the club allows it to all its members since 2001), which turns to the guest uncontrollable (Note of MadridForever: Yo can lend your season ticket to a friend, cousins, brother,....). The one hundred remaining entrances are sold by six euros to identified sopporters (note: By the police). Fuentes del club informan que, aunque había guardias de seguridad privada muy cerca de estos tres fanáticos (se comprueba en la foto), la Ley Antiviolencia sólo indica que deben retirarse las pancartas o banderas que hagan apología de comportamientos delictivos, nada se especifica sobre la actuación con personas con tatuajes de este estilo. Sin descartar que esos tres individuos estuvieran dirigidos, el club y la policía trabajan ahora en su identificación. Sources of the club inform that, although there were guards of private security very near these three fanatics (is verified in the photo), the Antiviolence Law only says that must be retired the banners or flags that make vindication of criminal behaviors, nothing is specified about the performance with people with tattoos of this style. Without discarding that those three individuals were directed, the club and the police work now in their identification. Well, i was in the stadium seeing the game in my season seat (2nd anfiteatro fondo norte/second amphitheatre north zone) and i didn't listen anything. The next day, after read in As what english press was saying, I asked some of my friends that were also in the stadium if they had listened something, and they said no. Thinking about it, I only remember some generalized wishles of the people of the south of the stadium in one moment of the second half. Maybe the people was whistling to Ultra Sur because they had made some of their stupid things, or maybe they were only whisling Bayers players to put pressure, i don't know. It seems that the ref and the UEFA delegate had the same experience. http://www.as.com/articulo.html?d_date=&xref=20041126dasdasftb_9&type=Tes&anchor=dasftbA00 [font=Arial,Helvetica,SunSans-Regular]"....Sin embargo, ninguno de estos incidentes fueron reflejados en el acta del árbitro, ni en la del delegado del encuentro", explicaba la UEFA que, pese a todo ha todo ha decidido instigar un proceso disciplinario contra la entidad ....."[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica,SunSans-Regular]" ...Un reportaje emitido por la cadena inglesa Sky Sports, que realizó un seguimiento especial al sector más radical del club español, reflejaría las actitudes racistas que pasaron inadvertidas para el árbitro luxemburgués Alain Hamery ...."[/font] "... however, any of the incidents were reflected by the ref act, nor the (UEFA) delegate of the game", explains UEFA, that despite of it has decided to incite a disciplinary proccess against the entity (RM) ..." "...One repord broadcasted by the english channel Sky sports, that monitorized the most radical area of the spanish club, would reflect racist behaviours that didn't see the ref from Luxembourg Alain Hamery ..." Note: i think that the ref should be racist, and if he is racist, his wife should be racist, his mom should be racist, his neighbor should be racist. In sumary, the people from Luxembourg MUST be racist. "Por su parte, el Real Madrid, ya había emitido una nota en la que aseguraba no tener constancia de que se produjeran actitudes racistas en ese partido, al tiempo que condenó estos hechos, si hubieran existido. "El Real Madrid asegura que si anoche se produjeron hechos de ese tipo, fueron tan minoritarios que nadie en el campo y en el club tuvo constancia de ello", reza la nota, en la que se añade que la entidad "rechaza sin paliativos hechos de estas características", indicaba el comunicado" "On the other hand, Real Madrid, already had emitted a note in which it assured not to have certainty that racist attitudes happened in the game, at the same time the club said that condemn the fact if they had happened "El Real Madrid assures that if last night happened facts of that type, they were so minority that nobody in the field and the club had certainty of that", it says the note, in which it is added that the organization "UNRESERVEDLY CONDEMNED THAT TYPE OF FACTS"..." I can't say if the Ultra Sur made the famous sounds, but if that happened the last tuesday,they weren't more than 20-30 persons or the sounds would have been clearly listened by all the stadium. Probably only could listen the sounds the people around the Ultra Sur, or some atmosphere microphones that exists around the field for the TVs. It is a totally indecent/miserable/obscene the campain that are trying to do some english press, saying that a whole club, city, country is racist by the behaviour of a very small group of A S S H O L E S. At least some of them have had the decency to say of that was a very small group, but they majority use ambiguous works to not admit that they were wrong in all their last week campain. Only one thing is worse that lie, to say half of the truth in your own benefit. And there are few things worse than the hypocrisy. I have seen many of both things in the English press in the last days. Real Madrid foundation ---------------------- http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=42026&sec=4&subsec=3 "thousands of the boys of the more of 40 schools that Real Madrid has created in spain (schools to help childs with economics problems) come to Madrid to celebrated the end of the school year." http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=42046&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid sign a agreetment to help handicapped child to his formation and his integration to society" http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=41895&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid created a new school in Quito (Peru) to help in the education of the child of the poorest areas of the city" http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=41876&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid sign a agreedment with CSNE to help the deaf childs" http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=41543&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid organized a marathon for the integration where thousands of inmigrants chids of several countries (Argentina, Chile, ....) and childs handicapped made all type of activites with the help of volunteer of Real Madrid" http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=41487&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid created a new sport school for inmigrants in Fuenlabrada (South Madrid city), childs of Spain, Colombia, Ecuador, Ginea, Senegal, Argelia, Angola,... will begin today his classes" http://www.realmadrid.com/web_realmadrid/templates/noticias/detallenoticia.jsp?idnoticia=40836&sec=4&subsec=3 "Real Madrid will seen thousand of toys packs, and other help to the childs affected by earthquake in Alhucemas (Morroco town). Around 50 orphan childs will have a holidays in Madrid and they will received by Real Madrid Superstars." This is only some few example of two months of work of Real Madrid Foundation. I could be adding links until the end of the times.
First off, I'm very sorry that you're daughter had to endure abuse like that from an early age. However, for you to somehow dismiss all blacks and call all of them abusive is untrue and very unfair on your part. I personally hope your daughter can grow up and learn to not hate based on some traumatic events in her childhood. Based on what you have said, I guess I should hate all whites because I have been discriminated against by them? Everyone has value, worth and deserves some level of respect. When someone destroys that, I really can't think of many bigger problems than that.
Great post. No one can really stop racism. People can be stupid and as long as people are stupid, you will have racist, prejudiced, biased people. but what society and what those in power can do is condemn this sort of behavior and punish those who commit such acts. England has probably as many racists as there are in any other countries but what england is doing right is that they are trying to find these racists and punishing them. A great example is the Dwight Yorke incident where you had a fan making racistg estrues. the fan was arrested, fined and baned from seeing future england events. This is what the Spanish FA should be doing but yet they have failed to do so on numerous occasions. Hopefully, they can learn a lesson from these recent events
not neccessarily (i believe). a swastika with each core line point at a 90º increment (0, 90, 180, 270) is not the sign of hatred or the nazis, however if each core line points to 45, 135, 225, and 315 then it is a sign of hatred. like i said, im not sure about this.
actually, the swastika the nazi's used was an inversion of the hindu version, that is the points are angled clockwise, whereas the religious symbol hindus revere has the points angled counterclockwise. there are many theories that this was influenced directly from hinduism, where hitler was trying to create a nazi "religion" but i cant say thats 100% fact. the angle, as you said doesnt matter , because there 90 degree and 45 degree versions of both types. the only thing that confuses the issue is that there are in fact both variants, in nazism and religion.
I understand what you are saying MadridForever & I believe you. But every time Roque Jr touched the ball, you heard the monkey chants on the Skysports broadcast. They had to investigate the story. Skysports said it was only a small group. Real Madrid needs to complete the investigation and make it very clear this behaviour will not be tolerated, no matter what the numbers of people are.
Can you please explain why Basques are more likely to make monkey noises? I think you actaully mean something else than I think, so could you please clarify. I see that you recognize that we have not, so I do not think you are saying something negative.
What he means i think, is that Real Madrid team has Roberto Carlos and Ronaldo both black players and both key men to the Real Madrid team, why would any SANE fan make racist gestures when your team is so heavily reliant on these players, you should if for no other reason respect you own players! But with Atletic Bilbao they are a team from which all players are Basque born and raised. As such there are no black players and not because they are racist or they could be forgiven but it would at least be more easily understandable if they made racist noises since they wouldn't be attacking their own. But they don't which makes the Bernebau IDIOTIC few even more unbelieveable! Just what i think they guy meant, don't quote me! (By the way that Shaun-Wright Phillips guy, Bernebau IDIOTIC few have given him a renewed boost, the man is playing extremely well the last two weekends scoring goals, making goals and just plain running things!) If JUVE have to play Madrid, attack TREZEGUET, maybe then we won't haveto wait for him to heal, he'll just spite the bastards like Wright-Phillips!)