The battle for Lisbon

Discussion in 'Portugal' started by Resendes, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Resendes

    Resendes New Member

    Dec 29, 2004
    100 years of fighting in the beautiful city of Lisbon is about to end.

    Benfica and Sporting, one will fall very soon due to massive debt.

    Which one will it be?

    Sporting is hanging on by a thread thanks to its academy and Peseiro.
    and
    Benfica is running out of players to sell.

    Who will run out of money first?
     
  2. benficafan100

    benficafan100 New Member

    Jun 29, 2004
    Oshawa Ontario
    Sporting has bigger debt then Benfica.BUT Benfica has been making payments before their dates so it looks like Benfica will be the one that will finnish their debt first as it looks
     
  3. LuisCamoes

    LuisCamoes Red Card

    Jul 25, 2004
    Boston USA
    I think your all nuts if you think the Por Goverment will let one of them two fold. I guarentee they would step in before that happened. But I did vote as nothing is certain in life, but wtf im so used to voting for sporting on pro sporting polls I picked sporting instinctivly lol
     
  4. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
    I have to laugh :)
     
  5. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
    Benfica and Sporting going to out leave everybody, they will be around 100 years from today, they going nowhere
     
  6. Força Sporting

    Sep 29, 2002
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    As mentioned earlier, there are mechanisms in place that prevent either one of these clubs going belly up. Sporting's debt is huge, massive really, and Benfica was not paying off their dues to the taxman. Both of these clubs are still around, though, and will be for many more years to come...
     
  7. Roy Da Silva

    Roy Da Silva New Member

    Sep 24, 2003
    Vancouver Canada
    Sporting will go down for sure.
     
  8. Resendes

    Resendes New Member

    Dec 29, 2004
    Sounds like some of you are wishing for a miracle.
    Some savior will come along spare these two clubs from bankruptcy, maybe the government, Roman Abramovich or the banks will try there best but even they can only do so much.
    Eventually one giant will have to fall.
     
  9. benficafan100

    benficafan100 New Member

    Jun 29, 2004
    Oshawa Ontario
    lol ya we basicaly do need a Roman Abramovich type person lol
     
  10. Resendes

    Resendes New Member

    Dec 29, 2004
    Portugal's Superliga

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/soccer/02/11/bc.sport.soccer.finances.europe/



    A major worry for the league is a tightening of government requirements that will force the automatic dissolution of a company whose net assets fall below half its capital.

    The rule is aimed at closing companies that lack a solid financial base. The rule takes effect in 2005, in the middle of most clubs' fiscal year, and a league source said it has had talks with the Finance Ministry about how the rule would be applied in soccer.

    Clubs often vary in their accounting terminology, and the league has set up a panel to work with them and the finance ministry to devise uniform standards, the source said.

    Clubs are also required to clear up their tax bill at the start of the season. If the bill is not squared, clubs cannot sign players. Local municipalities are often investors in clubs, especially in their real estate operations.
     
  11. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
    the day Portugal lose's one of the top three clubs its the end of Portugal
     
  12. JuveleoRules

    JuveleoRules Member

    Jun 8, 2002
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    That article is a year and a half old...

    And none of the big 3 are ever going bankrupt...

    First off SCP, would sell off entities before falling into that type of state...and selling off would definately eliminate any debt. They would then in turn "lease" the facilities from whatever investment firm that may have bought them.
    In essence it would be almost impossible for SCP to go bankrupt...
     
  13. Briosa a frente

    Briosa a frente New Member

    Sep 3, 2004
    Winnipeg, (Coimbra)
    The answer to your Poll is both and none. Since they are both in debt they have in essence run out of money. But because the Government as seen fit to allow them to remain in Operation by borrowing from tomorrows money to pay todays debt, none. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Penguin

    Penguin Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon

    Both clubs posted a positive cash flow last year (i.e. they made money). Hence, your comment that they have "run out of money" is incorrect. There's a big difference between "having debt" (which almost all clubs and corporations have) and "being in debt". There's nothing wrong with using future earnings to pay off debt - if you have a credit card, you do it too.

    I can't speak for Benfica's finances, but when in the recent past has the Government ever bailed out Sporting?
     
  15. ChopSoccerDude

    Dec 3, 2004
    New Jersey
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    There's no worry... FC Porto will buy both Sporting and Benfica and make them their B and C teams, respectively. :D
     
  16. metro fan

    metro fan Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    Union, NJ
    Did you forget who bailed you out in the 90's when it got to the point where the water company was going there to cut the water, and the mayor got in the middle to help the situation.
     
  17. metro fan

    metro fan Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    Union, NJ
    You sure made some money in the last couple of years. But so did Benfica and look where the finances are.

    And the way PDC is throwing money away and pocketing some, it wont be long until reality settles for you guys again
     
  18. JuveleoRules

    JuveleoRules Member

    Jun 8, 2002
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    And how bad would that look when Porto finished behind their B and C teams:D

    In addition...come on with this thread...training camps have opened up...should be something else to write about...
     
  19. |--LdC--|

    |--LdC--| New Member

    Nov 16, 2003
    Lisboa/Portugal
    They both can make an giant "operação coração" or a fund raising like Benfica did to keep Amaral(great player) anyone remember?! :)
    More seriously the real problem is that both clubs are SAD´s, in the past the government could save their arse, because they could fool everybody and because there was money. While nowadays everyone know where the money is coming from, oh damn thats not important, the government is bankrupt...
    P.S. Please ignore everything i said... Benfica paid their debts to the government with shares that had not market price...
     
  20. Penguin

    Penguin Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    To be completely honest, I don't recall this happening. Was this during the Jorge Goncalves/Sousa Cintra years? If you have any links for me to read, I'd greatly appreciate it. :)

    When I said "recent past", I was referring to anytime since Roquette came to power (1996-97) and helped to create the SAD. Until he came in, Sporting went through a period of serious mismanagement.
     
  21. Portista69

    Portista69 New Member

    Sep 6, 2004
    London,Canada
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Well were all waiting for u to get it started :p
     
  22. Briosa a frente

    Briosa a frente New Member

    Sep 3, 2004
    Winnipeg, (Coimbra)
    Positive Cash flow = more money made than expenses for the reporting period. But since you did not erase your debt from the previous reporting periods it means you are still in debt in other words, you owe more money than you have.
    If the government would only allow me to not pay by taxes i'd be debt free too. As far as the credit card goes if I can't pay off the accumulated debt at the end of the month than I owe more money than I make and therefore I am "in Debt"
     
  23. JuveleoRules

    JuveleoRules Member

    Jun 8, 2002
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    You outline it well, but only left out this part...the debt the the clubs have accumulated is now being paid off over time. (i.e. Mortgage) so this in becomes part of your expenses...thus you can still maintain a positive cash flow with recurring debt.

    You also have to take into consideration that no bank will loan money to any corporation with colateral. Thus most teams have turned to selling stock to raise capital...
     
  24. leafster

    leafster New Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    These clubs could go bankrupt but they'll never disappear. Someone other entity (like a bank) will just take them over. The influence these two clubs have on the populace ensures their survival. Both government and industry know this.
     
  25. Penguin

    Penguin Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    You're still not getting it. Let me try a different approach:

    Club ABC decides to build a new stadium. They obviously don't have enough funds under their mattress to pay for it, so they go to the banks for a loan or they initiate a bond offering. Once the stadium is built, it would be unrealistic for the banks to expect the club to pay the loan back in full immediately. Rather, the bank and the club agree to a payment plan (debt servicing) so that the debt is paid off over the course of time - both principal and interest. As long as the club sticks to the payment plan, they're fine. They have debt, but are not "in debt".

    You're also not taking into account the assets that club has. For example, the players are all assets that can liquidated if need be.
     

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