Discussion in 'Barra Brava' started by Victory, Nov 6, 2006.
hahahahaha, good one pints
What makes people like Duff, Chris and others become contributing and passonite members versus those that do not. What can we do to help people gain that passion.
Just an observation:
Newbies that come in a pack tend to socialize between themselves during play worrying more about what their buddies think. Couples or people who come alone are obviously much quicker to just jump into the mob and sink or swim.
Me, I do it for the chicks.
Vicky and I were in The Choir back in the day. Rob sat there too. We both came to the Barra the same year. Owen and Marshall were the first two that came up to us and made us welcome. We got introduced to everyone else and fit in right away. I don't think there's really a formula that gets noobs rocking the section like the old school do. Each person does it at their own pace. Hell, all it took for Rob to fit in right away was to fight Oscar.
It was alright, I killed the rest of my camelback on the drive...
After I dropped another Barra newbie off in Elon, I went back to Durham to stay with a friend for the night, then finished the rest of the drive this morning.
Okay, I was just writing my two cents, took a break, read Duffman's post and he hit it more dead-on than I ever could. Saves me lots of typing.
This is my first year in the Barra. I played soccer for most of my youth, loved the hell out it, but never really got exposed to MLS until last year. None of my friends in high school or college were into it, so my interests focused onto other things like playing music and skateboarding. Soccer isn't as easily accessible as the other major sports, such as baseball and football. If you haven't been into it for your entire life, it often takes a friend. Last year, Pedro got me going and my love of soccer is back in full force. The rest speaks for itself, I guess. Soccer has become my favorite thing on earth. The Barra only enhances that more than words can define.
Here's my suggestion for getting people cultivated, because these all worked with me.
Soccer is a wonderful sport, and I think a little exposure and education is all that's necessary. If someone is interested but never really played or watched it, show them your passion for it. Hopefully, some of that will rub off. If you're bringing in someone new to the Barra, have them force themselves to get to know everyone. What worked for me was carrying around a bottle of Jameson and trading swigs with people. Do they have a good recipe, have them bring it (for example, jazz burgers). It kinda forces you into introducing yourself. Also try and work with them in the stadium when it comes to chanting. Hand 'em a flag. Get them involved. Talk to them about soccer. Try and educate them.
Well, I'll be spending the off season on my bike going up and down the W&OD to work on my leg muscles. Next season, I'll be ready to jump harder, higher, and faster.
Is any design help needed? I'm a web/graphic designer and would be more than happy to help in this process, whether it be making it look nice or working with the information architecture/organization.
It was frustrating at times yesterday, both in stands and on the pitch but lets focus on positives.
Every group in the world deals with tourists during derbies and big games, unless you start winning in a hurry atmosphere suffers. Of course since we didn't have as big boost in 2005 Chicago playoff game was pretty crazy during 4:0 loss. And really it wasn't that bad, damn hobbit scoring in 3rd certainly didn't help. I think disapointment comes because Barra only really competes with Barra in this sad little league and we didn't outdo ourselves in biggest match of the season.
Question is just how to combat it in the best way because it will never go away fully. We have few months now to go over some things, but as always actions speak louder than words so that will be what counts.
Last thing I want to say is 9/2004...
I'll take any game this season over it, not that I don't love all the ones and ones of you in the picture.
We didn't decide fully which way to go yet, but pm me your email. And any URLs you have done. Can't hurt
I agree with some of this very much, and then there are other parts of this that I find downright offensive. I've cut the post down to the bits I am commenting on.
First of all, I'm one of the ones who hollered, shouted, sang and chanted from the giddy-up. I would do so through injury time, overtime, PKs, trophy presentations and beyond if necessary. I kept singing until well after the team had left the field. It is what I feel I am there to do. As long as I have a voice, I will sing. I am dehydrated as you please today, and damned tired, but it is the price I pay, gladly, to be part of the Barra. I only left the stadium because my bladder was yelling at me pretty louder that it needed to be made gladder, and I was not about to do it right there.
Did I jump? No, I did not. Why? A couple of reasons: First of all, there was a family of about five, or just three guys with two kids that decided they were going to stand behind me, that is, in the area where my seat would be, but they decided they would stand there instead. What was I supposed to do--jump on top of their feet? So, I stood there and sang. Also, I'd been standing a whole lot before the game, getting to the tailgate nice and early, and my damned legs hurt. A lot. I went home and slathered Icy Hot all over them to knock the pain down a bit. Let's not even talk about my back. Does that make me less than Barra Brava material? I think not. I would have jumped as much as my legs could stand had I been able to.
We should be louder after everything that matters--they score, we score, we almost score, we almost win, we don't almost win and they really win--I was sorry to see that Benny had to come over last week and wave his arms around to rev us up. At the same time, yesterday was an important game, and I think that some people just got so caught up in what was actually going on when something happened, and because it was getting pretty breathless towards the end, they may have been oohing and aahing or plain old holding their breath instead of chanting and singing. Although I kept chanting the entire time, it wasn't easy towards the end because I was so busy watching the clock and on pins and needles. So maybe people just became fans instead of chanting maniacs. I forgive them.
As far as Barra Brava not being about the tailgate, I cannot believe the wrongness of this statement. First of all, you are one of the ones who is always there before anyone else. You are one of the ones always talking to the younger of the Barra--usually the in-college or barely-out 20-somethings, and from what I've been able to pick up on, it's about drinking and hangovers and other matters pertaining to being that age. So be it. Your choice. So, how can you say that the Barra isn't about the tailgate???? Yes, it is!!!! If I tailgate with people, and get to know them, even if it's talking to guys about their drinking habits, then this non-drinker is still making that all-important connection with those in the Barra that she'll be chanting with later. If I'm loyal to the people I know because I've gotten to know them at a tailgate, then I'm going to do my best not to let them or the team down by stopping for one minute, unless we're in between chants and I'm trying to figure out what we're chanting now. So what are people supposed to do, not tailgate? Just show up with a bunch of strangers, be crazed, and then leave? If that's the case, you're setting one hell of a bad example.
I saw that after the game, in the stands, there were tears in your eyes. This was not an easy loss to take, and I'm sorry to see it have to happen. But, is everyone in the Barra supposed to go home and hang themselves? No. There is always next year. We are all not going to take the loss as personally as you did. If anything, I felt like crying because I wouldn't be seeing the people I have gotten to know, love and respect from the tailgates again for a while. I am going to put a shoutout on the non-local boards to watch the final in a bar on Sunday, just to try to keep the comraderie going. The Barra Brava experience is a social experience, like it or not. And if you are so adamant that it shouldn't be, then you need to either get a life, stop coming to the tailgates and just go to the games, or both. I find your attitude incredibly judgemental, and if you want to feel the same way about mine, go ahead, I'm fine with that. I speak my mind, not what I think people want to hear.
As far as the chanting goes: there were so many of us this week and last that it's hard to keep the chanting going from section to section because we fill up so much space. I was over a section last week from my normal spot, and felt really, really out of place because we were singing songs that you all weren't in the thick of things, and vice versa. I noticed that those in the same spot I was last week were doing the same thing yesterday. Songs/chants are decided in somebody's head, as far as what we're going to be singing next, and because we're not mindreaders, a little lagtime is going to happen. So be it. What's important here is that people are at least trying. I would rather have two groups singing different chants and at least doing something than to only have one big group chanting because the rest of the gang can't hear anything to catch up. And major props to all who lead chants and everything else last night--elders or not. I commend everyone who got into the spirit of the game.
I know you've been an integral part of the Barra, and will continue to be so. Good for you. But, when I was a newbie, did you ask me if I knew the lyrics to songs? No, you did not. Did you instruct me on newbie behavior? No, you did not. I've shown up early enough at the tailgates, especially when I was brand new, that I was one of the first dozen or so people there, so you certainly had the opportunity to do so when I introduced myself to you. So much for each member telling newbies what is expected of them. If anything, after the first couple or three times of trying to make a conversation with you, I gave up, because you were clearly more interested in talking to the college folks about drinking and partying. Not a problem. I try to talk to everyone, but everyone isn't going to be someone I talk to more than once or twice. Hopefully, we will indoctrinate our friends, and others will pick up by our example, but you can't make blanket statements about what you expect when you are not following your own example.
I was proud of the way we carried on last night, at least from what I saw, with the flags and the people and the spirit of it. If it wasn't perfect, well, then, what is????
Thank you for making me feel better, I have more hair!
FYIW, everyone in that picture is a HEAVYHITTER!
ps-My two girls loved your flags, couldn't stop waiving them during stoppages in play.
pps-Pat, no need to get so worked up (you did you're job), I think most people felt that we could have done better, and we will in the future! Duffman brings up some valid points and we should all try to make it better.
Reading this thread and the thread on the DCU board shows me how bitterly some people are disappointed. They are dealing with the beginning of their grief in different ways. Let me suggest that everybody take a breath and gain some perspective. Write your thoughts down, but file them locally until your feelings are seasoned. Jay, this is not directed at you, but at us all.
I am so pissed that the boring-ass revolution are in another snoozer MLS Cup that I feel like ---- well, you know. Let's take a breather and not give our enemies so much rich fodder to feed their bloated effing self-esteem at our expense.
Very well said!
Aww, glad I made it into the photo (barely, far far left side)!
I used strong language in my post not only because I have strong feeling and currently am a little pissed off but also to stir the pot and get people to talk. Ask the Carolinam'ers about my skills in that respect. If you were offended I apologize. A lot of people are saying that they gave what they could last night and that is fantastic. A lot of people of saying I had to catch myself and made sure I was singing. That is fantastic and a reminder for everone on what should be happening. A lot of people are talking about the newbie and random person logistics and that if fantastic. It is a problem and one we all (including myself) need to work on. The barra has been better than they were last night, even under similar newbie conditions. We need to ask why?
I love the Barra tailgates. I love the social aspect of the Barra. I have made many good friends through United and more specifically the Barra tailgates. The contributions that Duff, Sruggs, Grillmaster and many many others have been fantastic and have helped establish the attitude that the Barra is a family. I often say that it is the only form of socialism that I believe in. Those who know my politics always have a good laugh at that one.
The tailgate is important and it does help recruit members and establish a bond between members.
BUT the tailgates are not the reason we are at the game. My complaint is not about the tailgates it is with people thinking the tailgate is the most important thing. The tailgate has intrinsic importance and is a very very enjoyable means to the game itself.
I spend a hell of a lot of time, money, effort and energy on the team and I did take the loss hard. I didn't hang myself or go into a deep depression and do not expect anyone else to. I am an intense individual. I work hard, play hard, and support hard. I woke this morning went to work and went on with my life. I am hanging out with Barra members on thursday at our new weekly outing to hit golf balls. But I saw a people leave who did not appear to be effected by the loss in any manner. Literally skipping around 5 minutes after the game was over like nothing else occured. Chanting for the beerman in the 81st minute. WTF.
My legs hurt, my back hurt, my ankles are swollen beyond belief today. Not everyone can do that and I understand. There are certainly members on the front railing who have medical conditions that do not allow them to jump. Does that make them lesser member, of course not.
There were a lot of people trying last night. Thank you for your effort. Despite the presence of newbies there were a lot of people who did not bring it full on last night. Srdan was right that in MLS we are only competing against ourselves and we have done better and should have done better as a group last night. My post was trying to determine why and calling us out for not doing better.
There have been a couple of games where I have not been there 100% and I blame myself for it. That was one reason I drank very little last night. I have no problem being called out especially when I deserve it. My post was not intended to offend it was intended to have people think about why the Barra fundamentally exists and reconnect with that purpose.
I am trying to put a screen name to a face and I am not sure if I am being 100 successful. I apologize if you feel I blew you off somehow. I have been known to do it without even realizing it. I at times have an abrasive personality. There are a lot of newbies I spent time with and if I need to or am asked to spend more time I will. Offseason happy hour I would certainly be willing to spend time talking to you about this issue or any other and in fact would enjoy the oppurtunity to do so.
I think we can all do a better job at making newbies feel welcome/become fully and hopelessly indoctrinated, and with this in mind I offer up my first idea, humbly submitted by Mr. Mouse. Note: this is the first part of an ongoing training plan, also known as the Plan for United Training of All (********).
******** Action Item #1:
When you see a newbie approaching the keg, hand them a glass and teach them a song. Or sing with them. (If you really need lessons, Grill is a fine teacher). Next time you see them, make 'em sing before you fill their glass.
All this will require is some minimal knowledge of songs (which any veteran has), the willingness to spend much of the tailgate standing next to the keg (which nearly every veteran has) and the willingness to look like an ass in public, which 100% of veterans have.
My guess is that pretty soon every newbie will know every song (although we may need more kegs, and yes, I'll contribute).
I've always been a big one for incentive-based learning.
Thanks to the Elders. On to mas Gloria!
******* stands for POOOTA
Bullshit it is directed at me and that is fine. I think it is important to talk about these issues when everyone is pissed off. The more time passes the more we forget that feeling.
F.u.c.k. you Jay! You, you, you... You P.u.s.s.y-a.s.s. motherf.u.c.k.er!
- Taj Mahal Badlandabad
(Van Wilder reference if anyone's confused)
Can I call out our drummers?
as that photo of me shows, i just didnt even want to move after the game. i was pissed, sad and everything.
im glad we have the newbies, so the barra will grow, we all just have to think of ways for our section to leave everything we have in the stands, like the players did last night on the field!
Maybe we can make them jump and go wild without spilling any beer all while being captured on video by Srdan. The elders do need some laughs!