Discussion in 'Barra Brava' started by Victory, Nov 6, 2006.
All right, already--I withdraw my complaint.
They must've been blondes.
I know it may sound like sacriledge, BUT, I have noticed that during the regular season, members of both the Barra (and Eagles) go to the Drum Circle and can usually get back to the same spot of very close spot in the bouncy side. This ensures hard-core supporters density.
This was not true yesterday, quite a few of the hard-core supporters had to find other spots because the newbies were packed in tight. I saw quite a few in section 137 for example (and they did a heck of a job trying to get the fans around them to join). This water down distribution of hard-core supporters was probably the leading reason for the lack of intensity for 90 minutes IMHO.
I am not quite sure to make of this thread. Generally I agree with Jay, and with Begbie both. Losing sucks. Other supporters groups would give their nuts to have our spirit and numbers. But still, it makes sense to think about where we are now, here.
There are lots of reasons why I think we have been flat in a few games lately. Some of this is just a reflection of fast growth -- meaning a lot of newbies. We have a good time and our tailgates are a good party. People want to jump on. Fair enough. Some of this is a reflection of the fact that the team has looked unenergetic for much of the last half of the season. Goals get people pumped. Take away Gomito and not that much has been happening recently. Some of this is a function of the fact that we're maybe trying to do more than in the past -- new songs, more coordination with flags, etc. All good, but more complicated.
Like a lot of you I believe that the Barra is more than a party -- it is a family and it is a devoted supporters group. We can disagree about a lot, but we come out to support the team. I for one don't want don't want the Barra to become a crusty old in-group. Utes like Natty and Riz and Goose and many others keep us going along and that's crucial. We want new blood.
At the same time, if we want to grow we need to find a way to do it that doesn't lose sight of why we're there: the Team. The way I see it we have two choices -- either we can embrace the newbies and show them the light if they don't have it: the passion, the songs, the jumping, the knowledge of the game. Or we can have "Barra lite" nearby. Let people who are passing by watch and learn and become part of the solid core when they're ready.
Like most of you, I NEVER want to spend a MINUTE of ANY game telling somebody sitting in the Barra to get off their arse and cheer. I think there is no excuse for the solid core to not be hoarse at the end of EVERY game, with knees that hurt from jumping and hands blistered from drumming or clapping or whatever else you non-drumming-types do with your hands during games.
Growth in numbers is easy. We're actually pretty fun. Growth in the core -- the family, the locos -- that's harder. It requires actually getting to know the newbies before getting wasted. It means establishing and maintaining the tone during the game. It might even mean getting to the fecking games on time so we occupy our core space.
There's a lot of cool stuff going on right now and the Barra is getting better and better. Still, there's more we can all do (not just the Elders) to bring new people in while keeping the core strong.
and u didnt snd them to me?
That's a good point AmericansSC and I think that was a factor.
Yeah, but I'm the one who should be confessing because that shit was right in my hand and I didn't catch it.
Your new nickname is T.O.
I should neg rep you for that. Redskins winning (and my consolation trip with the boys to go see Borat) was the only good part of yesterday
I haven't seen the highlights of all that end-game stuff yet. I'm hoping it's one of the four games replayed on NFL Network this week.
Some of you may recall the foresight I exhibited in the Barra Rookie Mistakes thread which earned me the rank of Director of Rookie Affairs.
Some of you thought my proposal was heavy handed and inflexible, so I backed off. To you I say, where's the organized and well-trained group of rookies now, huh?! Keep your eyes peeled for a thread entitled "Those of you who escaped my rookie training program last year meet me at the aux fields on February 2 to practice our craft while watching the team train in the ice and snow all day" on or about January 15.
Additionally, I'll have a screening process in place for ultra-new newbies who first appear at the conference finals. Then we'll see who gets the first 5 rows...
More noobs. That's the key problem. Brazillians, coordination, early deficit, yadda yadda yadda those are all minor, tactical things. The key issue is the newbies. We've got lots of them, and this is the two-edged sword of becoming "media whores", to use the popular phrase - you'll get people who are coming for the experience and not to contribute to it. We've got to somehow balance between remaining an open, inviting group but not getting swallowed by our own Newbies.
I think a key to this will be a group that I will label the "third wave" of the Barra. Our Elders are of course our leaders but there are only a few of them. Then we have the folks who traditionally lead chants and drum for us, but again they can only do so much, especially with such a big crowd. It's the rest of us who have been there enough times to know what's what wh are the "third wave" - we need to be leading by example and looking out for the newbies around us to get them into it - get them jumping, get them singing, teach them lyrics, give them a flag to wave. I did it yesterday with the four newbies I brought. My Pakistani friend who has never spoken a word of Spanish in his life did just fine with Vamos United by midway through the second half.
Sorry to troll here, but I have a couple of ideas that maybe you can pursue with the club, etc.
1. Have Ticketbastard/FO not print any seat information, just a ticket number. Once the number of tickets is reached, that's all they can sell for that section. That will resolve an incident like this.
2. Work with the club/CSC to have sectioned off the first several rows of each section for La Barra members/regulars/etc. You must have an ID of some sort showing you are in the group to get into that section. I recall this being done at U of I football games for "Block I". They had students at each enterence to the section and they checked your ticket and stamped your hand/ticket (depending on how busy). No handstamp, no getting into those rows. That way they can show the example of what to do.
3. Print up sheets of what the chants are. I love the CD ideas too, but also print out sheets and distribute them as people come in. That way if they are newbies, they can catch on faster and get involved. Besides, if nothing else, they can be torn up and used as confetti with a goal being scored.
To me, the bottom line is you are pretty much the envy of the league and beyond as to what a supporter's group should be.
To the untrained eye (my sister-in-law in this case) thought you guys looked great on TV last night. The flags, bouncing bleachers at times, the smoke, etc, the constant noise level (they have 7.1 surround, that never hurts).
I know I'm pointing out the obvious, but with the local and national media attention you're getting, your group is trendy and is starting to get a rep like the Cameron Crazies, the Cubs Bleacher Creachers, etc, which people want to be involved with. It just takes them time to learn (which unfortunately happned to be a play-off game here).
Just thought I would thow out a couple of ideas. I don't know how feasible they are, but I figured it couldn't hurt.
P.S. My sister-in-law, who lost her mom 2 years ago to breast cancer, wanted to say a special thanks to you guys as well for the 4k raised at the tailgate last weekend.
Blegh, I'm with you Jay. I'm not calling anyone out or thinking of any regulars in particular, but for as many people as we had, I've seen the Barra louder this season without even filling the two sections all the way. I was singing and yelling so hard and loud last night that I was giving myself headaches and having to stop for air to get the headaches to go away, but I felt like the only people singing with me were Jay and Srdan most of the time. Srdan was 5 rows in front of me and I could hear him clear as a bell, and Jay was half a section away. Turning around to scream at everyone behind me to yell "****ING SING!!!" did nothing and was ignored.
At least I had a good time. I kinda feel bad--I partially broke two seats and wound up having to stand on the armrests, which was my excuse for not jumping (though I still bounced as much as I could without falling off the armrests, which I did once), but I felt like someone had to do it. Maybe I wasn't as loud as usual and the Barra sounded quieter because I was sober for once, but frankly, with twice as many people as I've seen in the Barra sections all year, that was sad.
The only thing I can really think of to explain it at least partially was the fact that we had so many sections across that it was hard to figure out which songs were being sung, but that really only accounts for a few momentary silences as two songs competed with one another and people fell quiet to listen and see which one was going to win out.
And the "where is the beer man" chant in the 82nd or so was coming from people I'd never seen in the Barra before. Granted, I'm a rookie this season, but by now I've met a fair number of the regulars and didn't recognize those guys. Someone shut them up almost instantly by explaining to them that the stadium stopped serving beer a while earlier.
Dear god man, you are too kind.
No, seriously, you are. I'm closer in age to Jay and Bison.
Also, it is totally possible to bounce when you're standing on the armrests fyi - I've done it quite often.
I was kinda jumping from the knees. I got paranoid after slipping once and landing with the full force of my (slightly over, but don't tell) 200 lbs landing on the corner of one of the steps on the aisle with half my foot. I saw stars after that landing, and decided to be a tad more cautious with my bouncing and focus on singing instead.
Well said, Z.
Speaking of ladies.
Our lovely ladies can never be thanked enough for enhancing our dominant male-monkey world, putting up with our season long insanity, re-working schedules, helping us with all our Barra side projects and providing us with adult supervision on occasions.
Mr. Mouse's point about actually meeting the rookies is valid.
We certainly can't have an outsiders/insiders vibe (that especially is the anti-BarraBrava in my book). One of our cultural foundations is based on reciprocal coolness and a pura vida attitude --- from food to booze whatever, we share what we bring with each other (it doesn't matter if it's a handfull of gumballs).
I personally like going around the entire tailgate and beyond to talk with people, hell I think that's one of my favorite parts.
Absolutely agree. I get the sense though that many of the folks who weren't singing last night (and were newbies) weren't even at the tailgate. I saw some of the rookies I'd never seen before at the tailgate and then again later in the seats, and they were at least making half-hearted attempts to sing the easier songs, and to their credit, were looking to me for cues on the longer ones that they weren't picking up as quickly (Novak's army, for instance). I think an important part of the experience is the tailgate--you get to know everyone, get the socializing out of the way, and come time for the game, you can focus 100% on being loud and cheering on DC.
Cajun, that beer man chant was the icing on the cake for me. I was in the section surrounded by the guys that started that chant. They wouldn't sing any of the songs that we were, even when yelled at, but they would start a "where's the beer man?" chant with 10 minutes to go in a 1 - nil game. Even my girlfriend was yelling at them.
Yeah, it got under my skin as well. I tried to ignore it--at that point, unfortunately, I had just looked at the clock and realized how late it was in the game (before that I'd been blissfully unaware of how late it was) and it was starting to set in that we were running out of time, so I was preoccupied. I'd never seen them before though, and you all yelling at them seemed to stop it pretty quickly.
I guess at the end of it all, I didn't let the loss or the quiet Barra get to me. I was happy to have made it and been able to contribute, and had a good time at the tailgate and was glad to see everyone again after missing out on the last few games.
Agreed. As a fairly new member (2 seasons now) myself, I enjoy introducing myself to other members at the tailgates..... Walking around and offering shots of Captain made many of our members very open to talking.
That's because you weren't wearing a bra. Not as much of an issue for Drunk Cajun.
(mary flees out of the forum before Riz can get her)
Same the world over, post is from the Liverpool boards:
This is a call to arms... but not those in long-sleeved sweatshirts worn under the club shirt. Not those that spend the match phoning each other and saying "stand up", "wave to us", "we're in the big end opposite the Bordeaux fans..."; not those who support the team for five minutes then start slating them if we're not 3-0 up.
Seriously. Our support needs sorting out before the quilts have watered us down to nothing. Let's wind back a bit. We support the greatest, most romantic football club in the world. I say romantic because our tales are so many and so ******* heroic that it's like a book of legends and it makes you cry with pride that you've been a part of it. Now, sometimes, you just want to cry...
We used to have a pin-stripe scarf with a United Nations style emblem woven around the Liverbird: "Lverpool F.C: Supporters All Over The World". That's a thing of pride. Forget all the Local Support v Out Of Town debate. A supporter is a supporter no matter where they come from, just so long as they've had their education.
This is where we're falling down. Not so long ago we'd sing "You got your education from The Kop". Being a Liverpool supporter stood for something. Supporting this club brought responsibilities. You were different. You dressed different. You didn't follow the moronic chants that every other club came up with. You were part of something - something known and revered all over the world, and it was ******* brilliant. Above all else, you supported Liverpool and you got behind the team.
What are we now? A gang of 2hats, mainly. No different from Chelsea or Arsenal or Man.United. Most of the community on this site are right-thinking Reds who cherish the tradition and the values, so no-one needs me to list the litany of disgrace. All I'll say is, you wouldn't take a mobile into church and start taking photies of the priest.
Things have got to change, brethren, and soon. Good fans no longer feel a part of the increasingly shallow Anfield experience and it won't be long before more and more start spewing it. We need a reasonable, sensible, enforcable charter that properly educates as to what is required of them if they're to have the honour of representing this club of ours. In the spirit of KFS, let's get back to basics and reclaim the terraces.
Step One is your own contributions as to the worst offences. Step Two is a mass-flyer excercise, politely explaining why these things won't be tolerated any more. And Step Three is, long term, let's find a RAOTL home where like-minded people can have a drink without having to take a deep breath and, once again, explain to some ***** from Cork why we don't read The Sun. Enough.