The Atlantic Cup

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by nyrmetros, Sep 22, 2003.

  1. Porkchop

    Porkchop New Member

    Isn't that what they call Jon Guppy?
     
  2. metroflip73

    metroflip73 Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    NYC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it's just "tool" ;)
     
  3. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MetroStars are a meaningless marketing tool designed to take your money. That is the American way. Why do you even go to the games? Grow up.

    You agree that the series is a great rivalry, right? Well, this stupid cup is just a metaphor for that rivalry. Does it not count because you didn't invent it itself? The front offices of these teams are allowed to feel competitive and inventive, too, it isn't your exclusive right. You selfish cynical bastards! Heh. :)

    But please continue with your attitude. The stereotype of the ever-complaining MetroStars fan is entertaining as hell. I am sure some psychoanalyst will point to your empty trophy case and your sheisty GM as the source of your feelings of inadequacy.

    Grumpy Grumpy MetroFans!!!

    - Paul
     
  4. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC

    In five years when you are tolling on the Portland Timbers board about how the Seattle Sounders won the Paul Allen's Bald Head Cup, remember this convesation.

    Back to starbucks with you!
     
  5. PSUdude

    PSUdude New Member

    Dec 15, 1998
    Elmhurst, Queens, NY
    all I know is that if this "cup" happens to find it's way anywhere near me, well that will be one less trip to the bathroom for me...
     
  6. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Wow, I would've thought that you guys would be happy to win a cup of any kind. Hell, you're the only team that's never been to a final of any sort, much less win a game of major importance. It may be a marketing tool, but it's about the only thing you could legitamately be proud of.
     
  7. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    when did we ever start welcoming trolls?...be gone.
     
  8. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Gee, you offer rival fans something of value and they say no thanks...
    Why wouldn't you want this title? Chicago-Dallas have the Brimstone cup, we have the Atlantic Cup. Friendly (somewhat) Rivalries and cups between teams make the league and teams more dear to the fans' hearts. This is something that should bring fans together, not discriminate over its true worth.
     
  9. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    What do they call the cup they give the winner of the Real- Barca season series in the La Liga season?

    Enough said.
     
  10. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    They don't. Big whoop. This is something that was fan-based in origin. The Barca-Real feud transcends soccer. It goes back to political and social differences between the two cities. I think it's great that the league is trying to inspire that same sort of rivalry in a relatively new league. The fact that some fans care about it, that papers are willing to write about it, and the league promotes it should be more than enough reason for more fans to want it. The players themselves recognize this cup and see it as a reward for doing well against their rival. This is THE rivalry in MLS and that's what makes this cup so important.
     
  11. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    See, you kind of proved the point there. Real - Barca is bigger than soccer because Real was Franco's team and Les Corts/Nou Camp was the only place Barca fans could be Catalans for 40 + years. Soccer meant more than just a game, because of the civil war, the Franco oppression of catalans, etc.

    THE LEAGUE CANNOT CREATE THAT IN THE US TO SELL TICKETS!

    And it wasn't fan based in origin, it was invented by the DC front office, named by the DC fans who "voted" on the oh-so-original nickname and sold to the league as a gimmick to create something to care about. Perhaps what bothers me most is that someone thought we didn't care to begin with. We cared because beating DC matters to us, just as beating Metro matters to them. I fail to believe that either fan base needed the trophy to remind them of that, or needed a trophy to celebrate the accomplishment of beating the other team in the season series.

    It's here to stay and it isn't going away. So be it. But don't foist this on us and expect us to care about it because suddenly a large milkshake mixing tin is on the line. It was the most intense rivalry in MLS for years, since '97 I would say. There was no cup then. We hated DC just as much in 2000 pre-cup than we did last year with it. The Yankee-Red Sox rivalry exists without league hype, because there is a true rivalry there. There is one here too, we didn't need a trophy to remind us of that.

    As for the players, they should want to win the games on their own because DC is our bitterest rival, not because they get to hold a milk can afterwards. Do you think the DC players were happy that they finished in 10th place because at least they won the Atlantic Cup? "Hey guys, worst record in the damn league but at least we got this! Good season!"

    Just give it up. You aren't going to make us care or snap your fingers and make us believe it's relevant. Frankly the saddest thing about this is that it's a copy of the Brimstone cup, which was made up to begin with.

    The rivalry means a lot because it does, not because of the cup. Real trophies we care about. This? It just doesn't matter. I want to win the season series because I want to be able to tell DC fans that they played us 4 times and lost 3 games, not because I have an Atlantic Cup poster on my bedroom wall.
     
  12. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    1) pretend you're not ignorant

    2) read jamison

    3) proceed to understand that if it somehow (yea right) helps the league sell additional tickets thats fine...but fans didnt come together to create this cup, ours certainly didnt and we DONT CARE for this stupid atlanhole cup, so dont force it on us, we'll derive more than enough joy from beatin DC on our, thanks
     
  13. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    ... Sour Grapes? ...

    If I recall correctly the sequence was something like this. First, the DC United front office solicited names for the cup and there was a vote. The Atlantic Cup won. Then the MetroStars front office protested saying they weren't included in the naming process. So there was second naming process from the MetroStars. I forgot what was chosen there but it wasn't the Atlantic Cup. Maybe it was the Capital Cup but I really don't remember. Anyway, it was decided that the winner of the season series would settle the name once and for all. DC United won the series and it's the Atlantic Cup.
    The cup detracts nothing from that.
    I don't know about the players but the fans were pretty damned happy. It certainly was something to take away from that season. And if it's called the Atlantic Cup and provides us with another ornament for our trophy case then all the better.
    I don't know how to put this delicately. Maybe like this. I think I'd have a very similar attitude about the Atlantic Cup as you do currently had the MetroStars won the series last year. But because DC United won, because the cup - whatever its origin - became ours, I've actually come to like the Atlantic Cup. It's something for us to defend.

    I guess the indelicate way of putting that is that when I read MetroStars supporters disparaging the importance or significance of the cup I can't help but wonder if some of those remarks aren't generated from the disappointment of having lost it last year. It seems a fairly natural reaction to me. You lose something that you'd really rather not have lost and so you go around making disingenuous claims about how meaningless or stupid that thing really is. “Oh, we didn’t want it anyway. It’s dumb.” I don’t know … is that genuine or is that just sour grapes?
     
  14. Footix

    Footix Member

    Dec 11, 1998
    Left Of The Dial
    Re: ... Sour Grapes? ...

    Nah, it has way more to do with Metro fans having a long history of being treated like fools by Front Office decisions and marketing blunders.

    From "Fan Appreciation Days" that never actually materialized to flat out lies about new stadiums, artificial turf, and other important stuff, Metro fans have become a bit more cynical about anything created by these guys in suits, and rightfully so.

    Ask any Metro fan who showed up for "$1 Beer Night" a few years back about being jerked around by Metro Marketing...
     
  15. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    Knave,

    I certainly understand your position that the Metro faithful hate the idea of any cup that DC has won because we haven't won any. This, however, is not just sour grapes. Metro fans recognized this as a steaming pile of bullsh!t as soon as it happened. Read the following thread. It is from August of 2002. If I could find one before that I would, but search only took me back to July, and August might have been the first thread mentioning it that I posted in as that is when the talk about it got serious (with the voting, etc), iirc.

    At the time this thread was stared, Metro had lost 4-2 at DC on May 18th and won 1-0 at home on August 25th, so the season series was 1-1 with 2 games to go, still quite easily within reach of either team on a +1 goal differential for DC.

    The quote from Ed NYC Firm expresses the same points on August 30th of last year as we are expressing this year:

    That whole thread was started by a DC who wanted to see what Metro fans thought of it. We thought it was a stupid idea. As did non-Metro fans like Bill Archer (Columbus) and Andy Mead (KC). A lot of people saw this as the lame attempt at league hype that it was. Read the below quote from a former Burn fan who is now a Galaxy supporter (story in itself, but anyway):

    So, apparently the only group of fans in the league that think this matters is from DC. And that's not a coincidence?

    If you want to call it Metro sour grapes, fine, we've certainly made enough whine to qualify Jersey as a part of the Loire valley. If turnabout is fair play, then DC fans caring about it is only shameless trophy hunting. The fact that you admit joy that you got to take a cup home after finishing 10th of 10 only makes us more skeptical of what it means to be a DC fan. What you're saying is that winning the season series means more to you because it has a cup attached to it, and that's 9 shades of lame. Win the series because you hate the other team and want to see them lose, not because you get some recycled kitchen aid to stick on the bookshelf. It doesn't add signifigance to Metro fans. If it does to DC fans, then we reserve the right to question what you guys are all about.

    Additionally, I think you may be misinterpreting our thoughts here. Mine, anyway, are not that the rivalry doesn't mean anything to us, it is that it means everything to us. If we were to go 4-26 all year long, I would beg that those 4 wins were against DC. But I don't need a trophy to tell me that. I don't need a piece of silverware to tell me when to get off the couch and show up at the park. WE BLEED FOR METRO, not for possibility to win a trophy that signifies the winner of a season series. If Metro Front office want to put it in the reception area of their lobby, fine, but they better not think that winning that lets them off the hook with any fan who wants to see an Open Cup or MLS Cup instead.

    In that thread one (one!) DC fan (Darth_Norteno) mentions he doesn't care. Good job, man. I am sure that there are a few Metro fans that do care about it, but most of the hard core ones don't, most of the ESC guys don't, and most of those that post here don't.

    If you guys want to hype it, fine. We don't. If you can't understand that, that's on your inability to understand us, not on sour grapes just because we're Metro. If Metro win tomorrow, you might hear a "we've got atlantic cups in our trousers" song, but it will be to mock you guys for caring about it and losing, not because we're happy about winning it. We're happy about winning the game, happy about beating DC 3 of 4, not happy about riding home with a silver bucket in our carry on bags.

    Soy de Metro.
     
  16. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    after all this, thats more explanation than you even deserve...jamison, couldnt have said it better myself...a win tomorrow means i'm on cloud 9 this week, i'm that much more psyched about the imminent playoffs, and if i have time, i'll head over to your boards and derive some unnecessary extra pleasure in reading you guys cry about the game...
     
  17. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    The only Cup that means anything, in my book, is the one-and-only glass trophy that got broken when an office gofer was dusting the trophy case.

    As I wrote before, I hope the shards were put in a cardboard box, crudley labled Eastern Conference Championship, and replaced in the case.
    It's the kind of trophy that speaks volumes about 8 seasons of Metro frustration and dashed hopes.

    If we win the AC, I hope we bury it in the Swamp with the remains of Jimmy Hoffa. Jimmy, we know you are there. Here's some company.
     
  18. otterulz

    otterulz Member

    Arsenal, Atleti
    South Korea
    Jun 20, 2002
    LIC, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's like the LaFontaine Cup between the Rangers and Islanders. Only fans who give a crap are the Islander fans. Atlantic Cup? Please. There doesn't need to be a "reason" to make this rivalry happen. The fans make it happen. A stupid trophy ain't gonna change that.
     
  19. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    That's not true. Myself and a lot of Rangers fans wish the Pat LaFontaine Trophy would be more publicized, and more importance placed on it.
     
  20. UncleLTrain

    UncleLTrain Member

    May 19, 2002
    As much as I hate seeing DC win anything. I wouldn't give two s*^#s if the Atlantic Cup would just reside with them and let them forever be the holders of the lame marketing cup.
     
  21. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    its all good Uncle, as fans we should start a Metro Cup for being Metro and that way we can have a foolish Cup too...after this year's Open Cup and MLS Cup, we can decide if we want such a stupid thing to take away from real accomplishments
     
  22. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    The Atlantic Cup is ours!!!!!

    Our first (and hopefully not last) hardware of the season !!! woohoo !!
     
  23. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Good luck in those games. We'll be seeing you...
     
  24. Footix

    Footix Member

    Dec 11, 1998
    Left Of The Dial
    Who's we...Barcelona?
     
  25. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nope, DC. Didn't add their name to my list when I signed up. Still haven't figured out how to add it. Any one know how?
     

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