The ascendancy of the London teams...happenstance, or is there a reason for it?

Discussion in 'Premier League: News and Analysis' started by superdave, Sep 4, 2002.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, I admit I'm no expert on the history of the top flight in English football. I hope I'm not off base.

    But there are currently 6 London teams in the EPL (Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Charlton, West Ham), right? My sense is that this is an unusually high number, historically.

    The announcer for Saturday's Birmingham match said that Birmingham is England's 2nd biggest city...and there's 3 teams from there (WBA, Aston Villa, B-City). Again, my sense of the history of English football is that Villa is usually there, but the other two are not.

    And Man City is up now...is Manchester the 3rd city?

    Anyway, what I'm seeing (and forgive me if I'm off base with regard to the sizes of various English cities) is the ascendancy of the teams from the biggest cities, and the diminution of clubs like Coventry and Leicester City, and the Sheffield clubs.

    Is it coincidence, or is there a reason for it? If so, what is the reason?
     
  2. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Sheffield Wednesday
    England
    Nov 7, 2001
    There are 6 london clubs but only arsenal ever win anything .Manure dominated the league in recent history .Liverpool and everton( to a lesser extent) dominated the 80's .Sides like leeds and Liverpool also had good times in the 70's .
    most of the trophies head to the big northern teams .
    Just because there happens to be 6 london teams in the premiership ,it doesn't mean that they are the dominant force .
     
  3. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    The number of London teams is generally about 5-7. In 1989/90 there were 8, but in 1979/80 only 3.

    Birmingham used to generally have at least 2, and usually 3 teams in the to flight, but not over the past 15 years or so. 1983/84 was the last year with all 3. Villa and West Brom were both founder members of the Football League

    Blackburn are a good example of a small town (about 100,000 - 150,000) which supports a top flight team, but the North-West clubs have always drawn huge crowds relative to the size of the town.

    Liverpool is the most successful footballing town, if you consider the average number of trophies per team. Both clubs are among the traditional "big 5" (Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal & Man Utd)
     
  4. RoyalMan

    RoyalMan New Member

    May 18, 2002
    Reading
    Re: Re: The ascendancy of the London teams...happenstance, or is there a reason for it?

    Aston Villa are a bigger club then Spurs. They have a bigger fanbase and more illustrious history.
     
  5. John Boy

    John Boy New Member

    Jun 16, 2002
    Staffordshire
    Only eight clubs have spent more seasons in the top flight of English football than WBA. Though due to them not being there for the past sixteen years many people (including myself) have got used to them not being among the top tier.

    Source: http://stats.football365.com/hist/overall/atdist.html
     
  6. John Boy

    John Boy New Member

    Jun 16, 2002
    Staffordshire
    Incidentally, West Bromwich is a separate town, but shares a border with Birmingham. The Hawthorns is positioned on this border, with the East Stand actually in Birmingham.
     
  7. kygunner

    kygunner New Member

    Aug 12, 2001
    Winchester KY USA
    I believe you see a disparity because London is simply a bigger city with more people and more money. This does not insure a team will win anything but like MLB the larger market teams have a better ability to compete.
     
  8. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    But there are also far more professional teams in London than Birmingham proportional to the population.
     
  9. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: The ascendancy of the London teams...happenstance, or is there a reason for it?

    They may well be, but not during the 1960's-1980's when people referred to the "Big 5".

    Preston and Huddersfield have won more than Southampton and Middlesbrough, but which would you call the bigger clubs?
     
  10. kygunner

    kygunner New Member

    Aug 12, 2001
    Winchester KY USA
    And on that note the chances of a London club representing the city would be greater.

    Would that be true "proportionately". I believe a few London clubs are destined to be 2nd or 3rd division until the end of time and play accordingly. I certianly dont know the population of most English cities or how many clubs they suuport.
     
  11. John Boy

    John Boy New Member

    Jun 16, 2002
    Staffordshire
    Seven-ish years ago I would have said the same thing about Fulham!
     
  12. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    On the other hand Birmingham only has three professional clubs - there are no smaller clubs in the city, although Walsall and Kidderminster are nearby + Wolves who are not a small club a bit to the north. London also has Millwall, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (possibly), Leyton Orient, QPR & Brentford.
    There are also a lot of small clubs on the outskirts of Manchester.
     
  13. bocatuna

    bocatuna New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    England
    When you think about it London could be considered the home of football, as I'm faily sure that no other city in the world can boast and support so many teams in the top four divisions of a national championship, which is highly competative and is very costly.

    Their teams are still sh!t, everbody knows that the power house of English football is Lancashire.
     
  14. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    NYC
    London is the home of football. Actually, a particular area on the north side of London is The Home of Football.
     
  15. girbo

    girbo New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
    N E Where
    Ah yes Tottenham

    Home of Glory, glory football.

    Never thought I'd see the day that An Ar$e would admit that, but fair play to you.

    :)
     
  16. Frieslander

    Frieslander Member
    Staff Member

    Feb 14, 2000
    North Jersey
    Re: Re: The ascendancy of the London teams...happenstance, or is there a reason for it?

    I have an irrational hatred of Everton, (or was that Luton?...) ...anyway, I'd love to see them go down and spoil there (admitedly impressive) run.
     
  17. rifkin

    rifkin Member

    Mar 8, 2001
    Philly
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There is only one club in London.
     
  18. arsenal

    arsenal New Member

    Dec 22, 2000
    southern illinois
    And it's Arsenal!
     
  19. Fusion City

    Fusion City New Member

    Sep 25, 2001
    Manchester,England
    RESPECT!! Stalybridge Celtic! Well done,mate,I wish more people were proud to support their local team! I live in Burnage,so luckily Manchester City are my local team,but I've got a mind to take the 20 minute trip to watch Stalybridge now,when the blue-shirted heroes aren't playing...may see you thee!!
     
  20. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That must be fun come tax time.
     
  21. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    If anything the number of London teams hurts their chances at winning the league, because so many games are derby matches. Arsenal is the only London club to have won the league since the late sixties (when Sp**s won it). This season alone each London team will have 10 derby matches out of 38 for the season or 1/4 of their games. Compare to Liverpool or Manchester United who only have 2 each... Not only that but last season London clubs finished 1, 6, 7, 9, 13, and 14; which means those derbys are against relatively tough competition.
     
  22. bocatuna

    bocatuna New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    England
    True, but does a match between Fulham and Charlton have the same edge as Man.Uv Liverpool, OR Man.Uv Leeds ?

    It would appear to me, and I'm probably wrong, that only the match involving Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea really produce the classic derby confrontations.
     
  23. Ian Lozada

    Ian Lozada New Member

    May 29, 2001
    The Pick Four Pool
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fixed your post.
     
  24. Peakite

    Peakite Member

    Mar 27, 2000
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Halifax Town
    I've been over that way myself, living not too far down the road. Sadly Stalybridge won though :(.
     
  25. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Actually, yes they do. Charlton had a great record last season against London opposition, I believe they only lost once to another London club IIRC. While one could argue that the quality of player is less at a Fulham v. Charlton match, I would not argue that it has less edge than a Man Utd v. Liverpool.
     

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