So who is the coach? The main premise of my post was asking people who believe Arteta needs to go for an alternative? Also, I talked a lot about how the metrics do point to us being as bad as we were under Emery, but the eye test sure as shit doesn't. We were DREADFUL at the end of Wenger and Emery's rains. We seem to be playing something resembling the game Arsenal plays since boxing day (last weekend not withstanding).
Do you really think Xhaka makes any kind of difference in this game. He’s a possession player, but he doesn’t create chances, so his impact of the xG stats would be minimal. Admittedly he would probably have been better than Ceballos or Elneny, but some of his biggest mistakes have come when he’s been pressed.
I don't really pay attention to a lot of mid-level coaches, but I know the coach shouldn't be Arteta because he hasn't really shown that he is able to improve the technical ability of our squad, or come up with a game-plan that can be executed by more limited players. The eye-test is a subjective, and is no basis for decision making. The numbers don't lie. They told the story of Emery long before the results caught up with him. We had a purple patch of form from Dec 26 - Jan 26, and outside of that we have been consistently poor. Our last clean sheet was 14 games ago. I'd understand if we were vastly underperforming our xg, which would indicate we just need to put in more work and make 2 smart signings, and we would start to see results, but that is simply not the case. We are almost exactly meeting our xg for/against and points.
I also heard a pundit share this stat: Arsenal haven't won 3 consecutive league matches since 2018. If that's true, it's very damning.
We seem to be ignoring the fact that since the Chelsea game Arsenal have lost 4 games, the 2 losses to City and Liverpool were to be expected and one, the loss to Wolves turned on a referee decision. If Wolves are awarded a pk, but no red card, Arsenal probably go on to win that game, so the only loss a we really have to complain about during that the is the 1-0 loss to Villa.
I do. He's a really, really good passer of the ball whose issue is derp. There's no way we don't lose yesterday, but we were overrun in midfield yesterday - it felt like we were penned in the way Barca penned us in years and years ago. I think it's not quite that extreme if Xhaka is on the pitch.
It must have been qualified as either 3 consecutive home matches or three consecutive away matches, because beginning on Boxing Day, Arsenal beat Chelsea, Brighton, and West Brom in consecutive Premier League games.
I think this is both right and wrong - the question really is: how bright is the future under Arteta? And the answer is we really don't know because the squad is screwed up. That's crazy when the manager's had 50 games. Insanity against West Ham aside, there's been some very good attacking output since Christmas, with some strange outliers (Palace, Villa) and not being very good against the best teams in the league (Man United, Man City, and Liverpool). We've also been better defensively, though the improvement here is less stark. My take is that, this improvement is fine, but City and Liverpool took us to the woodshed, and we created next to nothing against Man United. I don't see that changing anytime soon. You guys can decide whether that's good enough for you, but my take is that Arsenal have screwed up so badly post-Wenger that playing well against everybody else and getting clobbered by the best is probably the best outcome.
So you don't pay a lot of attention to mid level coaches, but know it shouldn't be Arteta? The fact of the matter is, I'd rather continue with Arteta than bring in a "mid-level coach". He may very well prove to be that, but I do actually believe he has improved our squad, but the problem is, these players are so limited that unless he can make water out of wine, there's not much more improvement to be had. I don't think Pep comes into this team and has us challenging for the title. Could he have us challenging for Europe? Sure. Arteta has only been coaching for a year and a half. He makes stupid mistakes. The players seem to respect him quite a lot, as does the club. Other managers see his talent. I'd rather continue to ride with the current project then start another one. Also, with the underlying data and Emery, not only were the numbers bad, so was the soccer. At the very least we can see that the on the field product is getting better with Mikel. Again, the Liverpool result is an outlier to me. The sad truth is we are a team right now that gets ran by the big teams. Arseblog said it this morning best. Next season our goal isn't the CL. It's just to get back into the EL. That's the disappointing fact we face right now.
Sure the margins can be narrow sometimes. But I don't know about expecting to lose to Liverpool Saturday. Although I didn't exactly expect us to win, I did think we had a good chance, especially given Pool's recent poor form, Mikel's ability to get results against them in the last 12 mos, etc. We lost yesterday for probably a bunch of reasons, but one of those is that we just didn't show up with anything remotely close to what we needed to compete, let alone win. It was pathetic and there's no sugar coating it. I guess it was 3 straight home wins and I just didn't catch that. Maybe someone can confirm. If that's it, then it's a little less damning I guess. Especially considering that since March 2020 there has basically been no home-field advantage. However there's still 1-2 years before that where we did have fans and surely we should've been able to string together 3 home wins.
I tend to agree with you. I'm not watching matches super closely these days (I gotta get back to that!) but I came away from this match thinking we lost it primarily in MF. We also had so little ability to retain possession. Even if Xhaka had made more sideways/backward passes than forward ones, I feel like he would've had a more calming, controlled effect. Especially compared to what Dani's been doing lately. I can't believe I'm giving Xhaka so much credit, when I said not long ago that we can't go to the next level unless we unload him. But I guess those 2 things aren't mutually exclusive. He's been key to enabling our current level, our current style, and dare I say our ball possession & progression? Maybe he limits our ceiling in the future, but I'm thinking he would've raised our floor on Saturday.
Yeah but he also said that strangely we have probably a better chance of playing CL next season than EL. To get the former we have to win 5 matches in Europe. To get to the latter we have to jump 4 places in the table, make up 7 points, with only 8 games to play... and it doesn't just depend on us, it depends on the misfortune of the others above us... that's a HUGE ask. If you buy that, then it's win Europa Cup or bust!
Oh, I agree with that. I probably should have included that in my original post. It's completely accurate as well. It is CL or bust. Anybody know what qualifies for the Conference League? I'd really rather not be in Europe at all.
I mostly agree, but sometimes, I feel like Stan is an easy scapegoat. You may be right. There have been games in which we have looked like we have turned the corner...but there also have been games in which we have looked toothless. We will see if your hypothesis holds.
That would be great if it were true. The problem is that we don't really play that well against everybody else. We lost 6 times to teams outside the traditional big 6 + Leicester. We have been a team that gets ran over by big teams for over a decade - that part is not new. I don't see what Arteta has done to improve the squad. Our results are roughly where they were when players downed tools under Emery, even though the quality of the squad available to him is better than what his predecessors had. The fact that this squad won't even qualify for next season's Europa League is a massive indictment of the manager. Have there been good games under Arteta? Sure. No one ends up in 10th without a smattering of good form. Are things trending in the right direction? Not in the slightest. If we made no decent signings since last season's 8th place, I'd be a lot more understanding of why the team got worse. Instead, we had a decent summer because Kroenke opened his wallet, and had a great January, but the 8th placed team is 5 points ahead of us with a game in hand. How is that anything but a managerial failure?
For me the issue is there is no longer a big 4 or big 6 Looking at the last 3 seasons there has been a big 2 and now arguably Man U back in the mix. Then there are a bunch of teams clustered around 50 points plus or minus So actually it became far more competitive and points hard to get for non elite sides All of Arsenal Chelsea Liverpool and Spurs have been trash this season for supposed big teams
I love this. It would necessarily be a left-favored attack, but it's got potential and could actually be unpredictable.
There's a familiar pattern to this argument: you kept saying WengerBackIn during Emery times when the real solution was: a manager better than both late-era Wenger and Emery. I feel like the same thing applies here too. To me, the main moral of this story is not that Xhaka is the solution, but that Ceballos very clearly isn't. We need a player that is better than both of them.
United haven't really been better than Chelsea and Liverpool, just a lot luckier. Point deciding refereeing decisions have gone their way so many times with calls no other team would get. Their xpoints would have them tied with Liverpool, and Chelsea have hugely underperformed their xg/xpts.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the most correct answer. The overall trend of the club has been downward since he acquired any ownership stake. As he got more and more control the downward trends gained momentum. It's been 15 years of Kroenke and the club is the worst it's been in over 30 years. This can't get fixed until there's a change of the ownership or a change in the ownership. Considering this is how all his sports franchises perform, I think it's this pattern until Kroenke leaves.
Elliott vs Paul on today’s AV podcast was amusing. And I didn’t even feel compelled to skip over Paul’s bits. They were really goin at it!
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-head-to-head-table-in-2020-21-liverpool-top/ Just for fun, Arsenal are 4th in the big 6 Premier League table. They trail Tottenham in third on goal differential. Arsenal need a significant investment to compete with Liverpool and City. From player quality standpoint they are a cut above the rest of the league, Arsenal have lost all four games against them, which means Arsenal are 3-1-1 against the other members of the “Big Six”. In addition, Arsenal are 2-1-1 against the two non “Big Six” teams currently in the Top Four. Though, in spite of Liverpool’s current position in the Table, I fully expect them to pip Chelsea and West Ham for fourth. Their run in is the easiest of the three teams. The point I’m getting to, is that Arsenal are fully capable of competing with everyone except Liverpool and City. Their problem has been and remains consistency. They make to many individual errors. We saw it in the two halves against West Ham. In addition while the attacking numbers are better they’re still not where they should be. I read a comment this morning that prompted me to look at Aubameyang’s numbers. With 8 games left he has just over half the shots he had last year and the year before. His finishing percentage has dropped slightly, from 23% to 18%, but the biggest difference is fewer shots. I also noticed something else, in the last three years, i.e., his time under Emery and Arteta, only 9 of his 53 league goals (17%) have come from within the 6 yard box. In the previous three years 27 of his 79 league goals (34%) were from shots within the six yard box. There are several possible explanations for the difference: 1) He may have lost a step, so he’s not getting open in front of goal as often as he used to; 2) Premier League defenders may be more proficient defending players in front of goal than Bundesliga defenders (or more realistically Premier League refs let them get away with more when defending players in front of goal); 3) His teammates aren’t very proficient at getting the ball to him in front of goal, or 4) It’s tactical, he’s been stuck out on the left. I suspect it’s a combination of all four. In the end, Arsenal are still averaging less than 12 shots per game. Though in the United game that you suggested they created next to nothing they did have 17 shots.
A lack of consistency is about a lack of quality. In all sports, a player can have a good game or two or a good month. Good players are consistently good, day in and day out. Their skill set and mentality allow them to have an impact each and every game. Inconsistency is a product of inferior quality.