The Arsenal vs Hull City: December 4th, 2013.

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by R9Kevinr9, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. R9Kevinr9

    R9Kevinr9 Member+

    Feb 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    El Salvador
    [​IMG]

    Premier League
    Wednesday, December 4, 1:45 PM (CT) on PLET
    Emirates Stadium

    After a great result vs a Cardiff side that's very difficult to crack at home we must now focus on Hull City this Wednesday. They said November would be a difficult test, which many pundits believed we wouldn't pass, however, our boys have managed to prove the critics wrong. Let's continue to prove that this side means business and that we are top of the league for a reason. It's massive that we get the month started right with a win at home. COYG & KILL!
     
  2. ogadeni

    ogadeni Member

    Oct 30, 2009
    San Jose, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2 ogadeni, Nov 30, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
    THANK YOU SIR!!! for being on top of it!!! Mid week game is on and here is my pick...this time we MUST rest few players...such as MO11/Rambo/Kos/Gibbs.....rotation baby rotation!!!
    ======super Szceney======
    C.J =====Per====TV5=====Montreal
    ======Flamin====Wilshare=====
    Wilcot=======Santi========Rosicky
    ==========Who else==========

    Why do you guys think...i feel i can be a good AW adviser...don't you agree?
     
  3. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Too much rotation IMHO. It's still a Premier League game. After Hull, we have three tough ties (Everton, @ Napoli, @ Man City) but then we have an 8-day break before Chelsea.

    Wenger's already been rotating the midfield except for Ozil and Ramsey. During November (excluding Walcott, who has been injured, and Gnabry, who isn't competing for starts at the moment):

    Ozil: 6 starts / 31 int'l minutes
    Ramsey: 6 starts / no int'l
    Cazorla - 4 starts, 1 sub / no int'l
    Arteta - 4 starts, 1 sub / no int'l
    Wilshere - 3 starts, 1 sub / 97 int'l minutes
    Flamini - 2 starts, 1 sub, 1 red card ban / no int'l
    Rosicky - 2 starts, 1 sub / no int'l

    Wenger did mention after the game that Ozil seemed tired, so I wouldn't be surprised if he got a rest. But I'd be shocked if Wenger rested both Ramsey (who is in better shape than anyone in our team) AND Ozil at the same time. Doubly so if he rests Giroud (see below).

    On defense, Nacho deserves more time, but I don't see Wenger rotating outside of that. Jenkinson and Vermaelen both represent a significant downgrade in quality.

    The big question is what should happen at striker. Giroud has played almost every game this season short of Carling Cup ties and the occasional France international game. The concern with Giroud isn't performance, as he's relatively in-form despite wasting some chances today; it's that fatigue usually leads to a higher injury probability. Do we start Bendtner? No chance. But should he give Walcott a game up top? This seems as opportune a time as ever. But if we do that, I don't see Wenger resting Ozil or Ramsey, much less both of them.
     
    frednmethod repped this.
  4. ogadeni

    ogadeni Member

    Oct 30, 2009
    San Jose, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand about Ramey and he can play more games as it seems. But definitely i will rest/save Ozil for the next three big games. For GOD sake it is HULL and i dont think they can beat us on our own backyard. I would love to see NM17 and rest Gibbs as well. Also Rosicky can handle good 60 min & then sub him. Flamini must start & Tata need to rest....Would love to see TV5 and rest Kos for this one. I dont think he played bad for ManU game. From 12/1 to 1/1 we will be playing 8 games and that is really hard for a new player like Ozil who used to have a break during the harsh weather time...GOOD LUCK GUNNNNNERS!!!!!
     
  5. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    La Liga doesn't take a winter break.
     
  6. Papa Burgundy

    Papa Burgundy Member

    Jan 27, 2008
    Dirty Jerz
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    could definitely see some rotation for this game. walcott will probably start, maybe rosicky as well.
     
  7. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am SO glad you are now AW advisor. Too many changes, particulary in the backline.
    I would only have Monreal for Gibbs, no drop in quality there, C.J at the other end is not good enough.
    Arsenal has not lost a match when the Per/Kos pairing plays the whole 90 min. No need to change that now. We may see either Rosicky or TW starting.
     
  8. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    umm yes they do
     
  9. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Madrid's schedule shows one free weekend, December 28/29. I guess if you want, you could classify that as a winter break.


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  10. LAgooner05

    LAgooner05 Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Orange County
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I somewhat agree with you. If we dont rotate this game, then when? I think this lineup can get it done v Hull at home. At the back we need to rest atleast one of Mertsielny v Hull and the other v Everton, I feel Kos/TV5 will be better v Everton. In the middle I think the team will be ok resting Ramsey and Arteta and Ozil and not have a big drop in creativity. Santi back at the CAM role and Gnabry and Rosicky wide can do the job. I'd allow Theo to lead the line, I think we need to start giving him some minutes there v bottom of the table teams. That bench can come in and save us if needed.
     
  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Sneezy
    Jenks - Merscielny - Nacho
    Flamini - Wilshere - Ramsey
    Walcott - Giroud - Cazorla

    Ozil desperately needs a rest. So does Giroud, but we can't really do anything about that right now.
     
  12. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    they take a week off, but it's not the 3/4 weeks off the bundesliga have.
     
  13. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's hard to believe that some people want to start a Carling Cup lineup against a team that just slammed Liverpool 3-1 in a premier league race where every point counts. Why do we need to rest most of the lineup when virtually everyone in the first team had at least one game off during the recent int'l break, and when the entire team will soon have an 8-day break with no games?

    Thankfully Wenger will continue to rotate the midfield (as I showed above) while keeping first team defense on the field +/- Nacho. The only real question is what to do about Giroud.
     
  14. n4100

    n4100 Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Philadelphia
    I'd like to see Giroud rested with Walcott starting up top and either Ramsey or Ozil getting a rest and Rosicky starting in that person's place. Both people resting are on the bench though.
     
  15. LAgooner05

    LAgooner05 Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Orange County
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    The lineup that I posted is nowhere near a CC line up, maybe my inclusion of Gnabry is throwing you off, but its 100% 1st team seniors. I don't understand how so many people are undermimeing the amount of games that are going to be played in less than a month. 7 games in about 3 weeks, with the next 4 to be played in 10 days. After Hull, we are approaching a run of games that include an in form Everton, away to a desperate Napoli, and away to a motivated City who is not only unbeaten at home, but will also look to close the gap on us. Arsene didn't rotate in that run in vs Pool, Dortmund, United, and It was obvious, at least to me it was, that the team looked tired at old trafford. I dont blame Arsene for it, because he didn't have much to choose from then, but now he definitely has options. IMHO it would be foolish to ignore the idea of rotating for a game that is at home, regardless of how good shitpool made Hull look at the KC stadium.
     
  16. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We have four games in 11 days (Hull, Everton, @ Napoli, @ City) and then an 8-day break. Wenger won't rotate in anticipation of anything beyond that, because that 8-day break will allow everyone to rest.

    The squad you selected had four regular outfield starters (Santi, Wilshere, BFG, Sagna) and one fringe starter (Flamini), but everyone else is a clear second choice. I'll give you that it's better than a typical Carling Cup squad, but first team or not, it's significantly weaker. Is the talent there to beat Hull? Absolutely. But that squad is less likely to beat Hull than what Arsene will choose, and that's the point.

    Rotation just for the purpose of rotation isn't a good idea. As I showed above, every single starter (minus Sagna I think) has had at least one of the last five games off (including internationals). This means that rotation should happy slowly - not this shotgun, hockey-style line change where 50% of the team changes at once.

    Central defenders don't run as much as fullbacks and midfielders, so rotation isn't as critical for them. I'd be shocked to see anything but BFG/Kos for all four games. I do think Nacho will get a game or two, but we just don't have a good substitute for Sagna at the moment, so I expect him to start all four games.

    Wenger can give Ozil a rest on Wednesday, but Ramsey has only played three games in the last three weeks and doesn't need a break. The rest of the midfield will continue to rotate as Wenger has been doing. The big question is Giroud. Will Wenger rest Ozil and Giroud at the same time? I'm doubtful, but it wouldn't be the most shocking thing either.
     
    thedude83 repped this.
  17. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I think you mean Arteta. Ramsey has certainly played more than three games in the last three weeks.
     
  18. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nope, I mean Ramsey. Since Nov 10 @ Man U (21 days ago):

    Did not play during int'l break
    Nov 23 - Southampton
    Nov 26 - Marseille
    Nov 30 - Cardiff City
     
  19. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Counting Man U, 21 days ago today, technically that's 4 games in three weeks. BTW, someone posted that Ozil only played 23 minutes during the international break, so he hasn't played much more than Ramsey during the last three weeks.

    But ignoring the international break, the point is that, starting with Southampton, Arsenal are on a run of 7 games in 21 days and some limited rotation during this run might be beneficial. There are always questions about how a crowded schedule affects a players form. For example, Jack had a great game against Marseille, and while he wasn't exactly missing in action against Cardiff, he wasn't anywhere near as dynamic as he had been in mid week. Can that be attributed to schedule congestion?
     
    blueguitar322 repped this.
  20. LAgooner05

    LAgooner05 Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    Orange County
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I get what you mean about games since the international breaks, but I'm really worried about the overall games and minutes the first team has played since the start of the season. Minutes add up very quickly and so do the injuries. We play a type of game that depends largely on lots of off the ball movement when in possession, and pretty aggressive pressure when defending. That game at old Trafford is a clear indication of how much different the team looked from the wins vs Pool and at Dortmund.
     
    blueguitar322 repped this.
  21. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I believe it's actually 4 games in 22 days ;-) Semantics aside, the point is that Ramsey shouldn't need a break at the moment.
    That was me :-D. The difference between Ramsey and Ozil, however, is that Ozil is still adjusting to EPL pace and Wenger himself said he looked tired on Saturday. I don't remember the last time that I saw Ramsey winded - the dude is a machine.

    I understand what you and LAgooner05 are saying about fixture congestion. Midfield rotation will happen, because that's what Wenger has been doing already. I think Ramsey will get a rest at some point, but it's also a fallacy to say "Hull aren't good, let's rest 50% of our starters". I can't see Wenger resting our three most important offensive players (Ramsey, Ozil, Giroud) at the same time. Thankfully, Wenger has practices and fitness tests to go on in addition to the game time that we see, and will make an informed decision.

    If we had better defenders, I think we'd see rotation there, but I don't think Wenger trusts Vermaelen or Jenkinson at the moment. Ditto with Giroud vs. Bendtner, leaving Theo as our only other option up top.

    P.S. team-wide illness also had something to do with our fitness level against Manchester United
     
  22. BigEffingGooner

    BigEffingGooner Member+

    Apr 25, 2012
    Austin, Tx
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Wenger specifically stated in a presser that he will have to rotate leading up to Napoli and then play full strength there. Since there was basically no rotation at all against Cardiff, and given that Everton is a tough match against a closer to the top of the table team, it has to be expected to have some significant rotation in this match. I don't expect carling cup, but I think we could very easily see something like:

    shez
    sagna - per - tv5 - nacho
    flamini - arteta
    rosicky - santi - wilshere
    walcot

    Or maybe leave Giroud up top, push walcott to rw and drop one of flamini/arteta/wilshere.

    I am concerned about needing to get a rest for Bac at some point, but given that we are going to need to rotate at other positions no way would I be willing to run out Jenks in this one too. Jenks was very good last year, but he has been very poor this year so far for the most part.
     
  23. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Attack: Put Theo up top, Gnabry on the right, Cazola on the left.
    #10: : Rosicky
    Pivots: Flamini and Wilshere
    Back 4: Nacho-TV5-BFG-Jenks
    Szeezy

    So, 8 changes to the line up.

    We have to rotate, and this is the game that makes much more sense than Everton. We have enough quality to get it done.
     
  24. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This just in:

    Manuel Pellegrini: ''#Arsenal have the best midfield in the world at the moment''
     
  25. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I'm not in the camp that wants to rest 50% of the starters against Hull City, I think at most we will see one midfielder and one defender rested.

    The reason i responded is I am a little concerned about Ramsey. I believe he has played in every game this year except the first League Cup game and he did show signs of tiring in the last 10 to 15 minutes of the game against Marseille. Up to that point he had a pass completion percentage in the mid 90s for almost 100 passes, in the last 10 to 15 minutes he probably made as many bad passes as he had made in the entire game before the last 15 minutes and he ended up with a pass completion rate in the mid to high 80s.

    Ramsey and Ozil are the two midfielders that haven't been rotated yet, and they will need a rest, just not both in the same game.
     
    thedude83 repped this.

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