The "Aprendendo Português" Thread

Discussion in 'Brazil NSR' started by MetroChile, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    You dont need it nearly as much as in portugues. Unfortunately, I dont know how to explain when you should use it, as for me it's engrained and comes naturally. But never use it for languages, cities, people, countries.
     
  2. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    classe is also pretty used in portuguese, although in a bit different context.

    in university courses for example, you will have several classes, each one a different subject... like... errr... Differential Calculus 1... Differential Calculus 2... those are "classes". If you have portuguese as ONE classe in the university, it will definitly be a "classe".

    if you study portuguese at a language school, you could also say you are going to your "portuguese classe", but it would be more rare, but absolutely not wrong.
     
  3. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I only see a bunch of asterisks! Please rewrite those asterisks with "." amid each letter or something like that. Were you writing "s.h.i.t.t.i.n.g" or "f.u.c.k.i.n.g"???

    Either way, I never heard any of those terms followed by "bed", in english. Imho, person 2 would say: "Person 2: Yeah, they f.u.c.k.e.d UP big time."
     
  4. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    "tô esperando tua resposta, mano!"

    :D

    any of the forms above is correct. Also, the correct is TUA resposta. "Sua" is a paulista thing, and is WRONG. Other possible ways to write it:

    "Fico no aguardo da tua resposta"
    "Aguardo a tua resposta"
    "Aguardarei a tua resposta"
    "Ficarei no aguardo da tua resposta"
    "Vou comer tua filha". Ok, just kidding. This one would get you fired. haha

    ps: I noticed now that you wrote "aguardando DA tua resposta". That would be wrong. Just "a" or nor article at all.


    ps2: Yoda would say
    "No aguardo da tua resposta eu fico"
    "Resposta tua aguardo eu"
    "Tua resposta eu aguardarei"
    "Da tua resposta no aguardo ficarei"
     
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  5. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Didnt even realize that, haha. The american expression is "sh!t the bed", meaning they were definately the better team/player but they choked bigtime. And I guess f.u.c.k.e.d up bigtime could be used also.

    Also how would brasileiros say upset. As in Ponte Preta pulled off an upset and beat Santos.
     
  6. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    just like in english, plenty of ways to say that. The most similar translation to portuguese, with all the fecal connotations (lol) would be "eles fizeram cagada", meaning they "messed up". If you say "eles SE cagaram", you would be saying they were afraid of the other team.

    if you want to say something along the lines of "they should risk everything, since they are already down by 3 goals", you say "tem que arriscar tudo. O que é um peido pra quem tá cagado?" (They must risk everything. What is a fart to someone who already shat his pants?)

    haha

    upset would be "aborrecido", "triste" (he is upset).

    but there is no literal translation to "pulled an upset." Or at least none I can remember right now.

    Maybe a ZEBRA? A zebra (yes, just like the animal) is an unlikely result. Example: O 14 De Setembro de São João da Boa Vista em Rondônia fez a maior zebra da história ao derrotar o Barcelona da Espanha por 9-0.
     
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  7. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Valeu. mais dicas ou girias de futebol seriam agradecido. se voce estiver disposto, claro.
     
  8. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    I noticed in films people use "ia + verb" a lot. But I never see it written anywhere or used in news reports, which has always been my main source for learning portuguese. When do people use this format and what are they substituting it for?

    Example: Thiago não ia sossegar enquanto não descobrisse.
     
  9. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Also, what does it mean when players are referred to as 'pipoqueiro'?
     
  10. Gilmar

    Gilmar Member

    May 25, 2012
    Rio de Janeiro
    It's because "ia" is as informal variation of the verb "iria", we usually use it only when we're speaking. But in the internet chatting with a friend it can be used too.

    "Pipoqueiro" is as it called a "pipoca" (popcorn) salesman. But in football is a slang to refer to players or teams that usually chocke in big games.
     
  11. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    From what I have perceived, ''ia'' before a verb seems to have the meaning of "was going to''.

    ''Eu ia assistir o jogo, mas tinha que trabalhar'' Ta mais ou menos certo?
     
  12. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Thanks for trying to clarify. So, the example you just used would be the past tense of:

    ''Eu assistiria o jogo, mas tenho que trabalhar"

    So its always conveying the past tense of a conditional?
     
  13. Gilmar

    Gilmar Member

    May 25, 2012
    Rio de Janeiro
    That's right. In the way that I said it got a bit strange.

    Sorry. I did a confusion in the previous post.

    The "ia" is the verb "ir" in the "pretérito imperfeito". And not a variation of the verb "iria" as I said before, this one is the verb "ir" in the "futuro do pretérito".

    The difference between they is that we use the verb "ir" when the event really happened in the past. But the verb "iria" we use in a conditional past event that hasn't happened.

    Example:

    "Eu ia assistir o jogo, mas tive que trabalhar".

    I was going to watch the game, but I had to work.

    "Eu iria assistir o jogo se eu tivesse esse canal de TV".

    I would watch the game if I had this TV channel.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    The most complicated part to learn portuguese is all those verbal conjugations that we have. But I think you have already noticed it too, hehe.
     
  14. _RC_

    _RC_ New Member

    Jul 10, 2012
    Or if you want a simplier solution,you can put all these verbs in Imperfeito/Past
     
  15. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Is this for written or spoken? For spoken you're sounding too formal in the first and not natural to me.

    Also sua is fine, Aces is getting into dialect differences.

    In standard Brazilian Portuguese the second person is você and the possessive of você is sua. This can lead to some ambiguity because sua is also the possessive of the third person so for third person you generally use phrases like "dele/dela" instead of proper possessives.

    Aces is inserting the old second person - tu - which is still commonly used in the South. Both are fine (tu/você) as long as you're consistent or consistently sound like the people you're around (some dialects/registers mix them up plenty).

    TLDR: Sua is far from wrong, in fact it's standard today. Tua is more of a regional marker. If you fear ambiguity just be consistent when you separate 2nd and 3rd persons.
     
  16. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Heres another thing that I was curious about. Is there any difference in the examples below? More specifically, I dont understand why 'havia' is used in these ways. I thought 'haver' and all its forms were only used as 'there is/are' and 'there was/were' .

    Por conta da acidente grave, um sentido havia interditado.
    Por conta da acidente grave, um sentido foi interditado.

    Os preços aumentados havia reduzido poupança dele.
    Os preços aumentados tinha reduzido poupança dele.
     
  17. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    1 more thing. Is there any difference between "Estou com saudades de voce" and "me sinto sua falta"?

    I'm not sure if 'estar com saudades' is only reserved for really strong feelings or if it can be used in a casual way.
     
  18. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    "Estou com saudades de voce" is a more caring way of saying "sinto sua falta". BTW you would say "sinto sua falta" and not "me sinto sua falta". You can also say "tenho saudades de voce".
     
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  19. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The verb "haver" is used in formal situations. In this case you can use either but in this format:

    Por conta do acidente grave, um sentido havia sido interditado. (I think that's correct)
    Por conta do acidente grave, um sentido foi interditado.

    Note that "acidente" is masculine.

    In other cases it makes more sense to use "haver":

    "Deverá haver mudanças, mas elas serão pequenas"

    In the 2nd case, just a small correction"

    Os preços aumentados havia reduzido a poupança dele.
    Os preços aumentados tinham reduzido a poupança dele.

    or you can say

    Os preços aumentados reduziram a poupança dele.
     
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  20. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    there is no such thing as "standart" brazilian portuguese.


    você is a pronoum of "treatment"


    what you mean with "old" second person? Tu is a personal pronoum and it ALWAYS will be.

    você is and always will be simply a treatment pronoum, that in some parts of Brazil got elected to everyday usage for laziness of correctly conjugate the verbs.
     
  21. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Sinto sua falta is literally translated as "I feel your absence". Adding that "me" would be like saying "I feel me your absence". Doesnt make much sense hehe



    can be used in casual way specially depending on local culture... in some places of Brazil, people will be all cordial all the time, even when they dont mean it.
     
  22. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Correct, Standards are linguistic constructs taught in school. They don't actually exist, no one speaks Standard American English for example.
    In its origin it was. In today's reality it is not limited to that. Você is used to refer to the person you are talking to (listener, receiver, "receptor"). The person you are talking to is the second person. It doesn't matter what word is used for it.

    If você is used to the person the words are directed at then você is, by definition, the second person.
    Well it's older than você isn't it? It's been around for centuries, você came about relatively recently compared to that.

    I also mean old in the sense of "previous". Tu is no longer the standard second person in Brazil. It is one possible second person pronoun used in particular dialects.
    Laziness is not a factor in linguistics. Education, foreign influence, socio-economic class and many other things are.

    Language evolves - every time someone besides you says something they say it a tiny bit differently than you do (and you actualyl change too a bit too). These different "offspring" of language are then spread to others and selective pressures act on them so that some survive and some don't.

    So what happened in Brazil? There was an expression used in the past to refer to people that you were not "allowed" (due to class) to refer to as "tu" (as you said, a "pronome de tratamento"). These things still exist in many ceremonial relics of many Western languages (Your higness, Your excellence in English for example), not just Portuguese or latin languages.

    So you have generations of people who never even employed "tu". There can't be laziness when you don't even know something exists. So vossa mercê evolved into você and people continued to use it to refer to the person they are speaking with. Now, you can teach people all you want that "tu" is correct, but when they don't hear tu except from the mouth of teachers and they've used você since before going to school they will continue to use você for second-person.

    This is not a question of right and wrong (there is no such thing in language) only a question of usage. Language is not a logical construct like mathematics, it is an evolutionary phenomenon that can be best understood by looking at HOW people do things rather than FORCING them to do things one way or another.

    Brazil is advancing, just as many other countries are, in employing linguistics in their education of teachers. One of my colleagues is younger than me and unlike me he was made aware of linguistics and usage and not just the prescriptive approach in school in Brazil. All I got and most people get, is "this is how you're supposed to talk" which is an utterly useless approach and unsurprisingly made me not interested in language, a subject that, when understood correctly, I discovered I loved.
     
  23. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Yeah, my spoken portuguese is horrible. I have no problem reading and little problem understanding. But I dont get the chance to speak very often, so when I do, its filled with mistakes like above.
     
  24. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And most of the people that use "tu" in Brazil use the WRONG conjugation anyways. Talk about laziness.
     
  25. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Just for clarification, with sentir being a reflexive verb, whats the difference between saying "Nao me sinto nada bem" and the incorrect form that I used of "me sinto sua falta"? Loosely translated using the reflexive "I feel (myself) your absence".
     

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