“I don’t know if you have photos of the stadium when I first visited it - I thought we had a kind of lake here, because the pitch was just water. “There was an investment of about £1million to have a very good pitch. But also we replaced all the seats in the stadium, we redid many of the boxes - so we invested quite a lot in the stadium. ^ http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/...is a disaster§ionIs=sport&searchyear=2016 That's not the same as "minor league sports aren't popular" ...
...which would be great if they were paying for it, rather than taking out a loan from his other companies and paying it back with interest. In the context of the US sports market, it is. When the very best minor league teams can't even come close to the attendance of the crappiest least popular major league clubs, it says very loudly that minor league sports are not popular.
Agreed. That one is complete nonsense IMO. It's a symptom, not a cause. For me, that's the cultural argument against pro/rel. If the perception of a team being relegated is that they're "becoming minor league" to a significant chunk of the audience, that's likely to hurt attendances. Now the difference in concept might be enough to retain the required amount of eyeballs to make it viable but then again, it might not. The "might not" is for me, the biggest argument against pro/rel in so many areas. For as long as implementation contains this many variables for success, while the status quo seems to be doing a reasonable job of steady progress, it seems foolish to abandon the current system.
That's news ... is the rate known? Wonder how it compares to what clubs typically get elsewhere (like Arsenal for the stadium). That's probably the most closed minded and singular way to make a judgement. But if this is how you determine it, then the Segunda Division (and the overwhelming majority of 2nd and lower divisions) aren't popular either. You making that statement?
3% interest apparently. It looks like a leveraged buyout (or something similar), as Charlton apparently owe the owner £32 million, which makes the interest alone £1 million a year. It's not true for Spain though. What I said was that it doesn't matter how good a minor league club is, or how big a city they are from, they always draw considerably worse crowds than the very worst major league one. That, to me, indicates a large degree of apathy towards minor league sports. The same is not true of the 2nd tier in Spain. Even if you exclude the tiny clubs in the top flight, as well as the odd traditional top tier club in the second, you don't see the same sort of gap.
In 2015, Charlotte led AAA baseball with 9,428 attendance. Tampa Bay was last in MLB at 15,403. Charlotte is an affiliate of the Chicago White Sox, who were 26th out of 30 at 21,947. Keep in mind that I would assume that all 30 MLB teams play in stadiums with higher capacities than any minor league team, which isn't true in England. AFC Bournemouth plays at Dean Court, which has a capacity of 11,464. Several League Championship clubs play in stadiums that hold over 28,000.
With reference to point 9, why on earth should the English league ditch pro/rel when 1) Absolutely nobody here wants this 2) Pro/rel is part of a league structure that is by far the most popular sports league in the world (the other most popular sports leagues are other countries with pro/rel in football), in other words why try and fix something that ain't broke! 3) Getting rid of it would actually cause mass protest (and knowing football fans it would probably result in violence) and also cause massive boycotts to the games, in fact it would probably be the death knell of the Premier League. I am not in a position to comment on whether you should implement it in the USA but I KNOW how the English football fan thinks because I am one and have been attending football matches (at all levels) for 40 years
Pro/rel isn't why soccer is popular. If that were the case, then all of the other sports in Europe that have pro/rel would be more popular, rather than the also rans that they currently are.
Nevertheless it IS a vital component of the worlds most popular sports league, it IS also something that makes the game popular here, as for the rest of the world maybe it is, maybe it isn't, there is no way for me to know but like I said why change something that doesn't need fixing?
I'd say it is more a product of how popular the sport is and how it grew from small local clubs. If the Football League had chosen to have a Northern and Southern division rather than a hierarchy, I'm certain the game would have been just as popular.
I doubt anybody can be 'certain' that the game would or wouldn't have been as popular, there really isn't anyway of knowing for sure, however we CAN be certain that if its 'taken away' it will destroy the game on this island, perhaps we should ask the Dutch or Italians or the Spanish or Germans what they think it would do to the game in their respective countries? (I have a feeling they will say the same thing but of course I don't know these leagues and fans the way I know the English leagues and English fans).
No it is not. Pro/rel is merely a mechanism to organize the abundance of clubs. The sport was popular in England before pro/rel was implemented (it's actually why pro/rel was implemented) and the sport would likely continue to be popular if pro/rel were eliminated. That isn't to say that the teams that were locked into their current division wouldn't see support drop and/or go out of business, but the sport itself would remain popular. The Premier League certainly wouldn't go out of business as you claim. It will take a temporary hit, but a significant chunk of its revenue now comes from international sources and those won't be impacted by the decision. Additionally, fans of clubs that are now permanently in Premier League will likely continue to support their clubs (despite noisy complaints about how unfair it is and a small percentage temporarily boycotting it.)
It wouldn't be a 'temporary hit', it would cause havoc and supporters would leave their clubs in droves, I am English, I literally know hundreds of English football fans and I know EXACTLY how we feel about this. I have been attending matches at Stamford Bridge for 40 years I know how the supporters there would react, I don't claim to know how it would be in other European countries because I am not 'party' to how the supporters there feel (I think I know what I expect them to feel about it however) and I certainly wouldn't know how people in the US (who generally have a very different view of things) feel about it, but remember I am an Englishman living among millions of Englishmen.
Outside of England and Germany, fans already only support a couple of clubs as it is. They certainly don't support the lower division clubs as well as you seem to be thinking. As previously noted, lower division clubs in other countries only get a few thousand fans per game. While there certainly would be protests, there would be minimal impact if pro/rel were ended in those countries.
Hate to break it to you, but English clubs get very little of their revenue from game days. The stadiums could be completely empty and they'd be just fine revenue wise.
Here is what Sir Alex Ferguson says on the subject:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Leagues-promotion-and-relegation-suicide.html I reckon a man like him would have some idea of the consequences wouldn't you?
Except he doesn't say what the article's title says. I can only assume the title came from this quote: He is correct that ending pro/rel would likely have a devastating impact upon the clubs outside the Premier League. Add a backtrack of crowd noise, keep the stands out of the camera shots, and, realistically, the TV viewing audience won't notice the difference.
He is obviously saying it would have a devastating impact on clubs within the Premier League! Are you still suggesting it wouldn't matter if there were no fans at English football! lol, what exactly are the hundreds of thousands of English football supporters that go to games every week going to do after boycotting the Premier League? Do you think they will simply stay at home baking with their wives? What do you think would happen to the other clubs in England? And while you think on that what do you make of Dave Whelan's comments in that story? Remember to bear in mind that he is a chairman of a small football club that managed to rise from non-league to the summit of English football!
No.. He's talking about the impact upon the rest of the clubs in the English pyramid. There wouldn't be a reason for him to say "the rest of the league" and to specifically call out the clubs in the Championship if he was talking about the sport in its entirety. Curiously enough, he doesn't consider the possibility of expansion to include the "storied clubs". The only way that eliminating pro/rel would work is if it included a fairly significant increase in the number of clubs in the Premier League. *shrug* But realistically, there isn't really a reason to eliminate pro/rel in England. It works pretty well there and aside from the periodic club that gets sent into bankruptcy by punching above their weight, it's not a bad system for England.
Look he called the idea 'suicide' pretty clear he is somewhat against it don't you think? Also please let me know your thoughts on Dave Whelans' comments? He has basically said what ALL English football fans are saying, if we all feel this way can you give me one good reason for 'scrapping' it here?
I see it didn't take long for this new thread to have the "normal anti pro/rel culprits" spouting inaccurate bullshit about pro/rel in England.
Not sure, for example, that Arsenal's 2014 revenue of 112m gbp from tv versus 100m gbp from gate qualifies as "very little." Gate is a still a big piece of the equation.
Soccer isn't popular because promotion and relegation works. Promotion and relegation works because soccer is popular. People watch the sport because watching 22 guys kicking a ball around into a pair of nets at opposite ends of the field is appealing. I have a hard time believing that people who enjoy watching 22 guys kicking a ball around would stop enjoying it altogether because England or anyone else decided to rearrange the way they organized teams.