The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Lol every matxh in mls that os first gets full nfl.stadium then after they see how boring play is attendance get back to 25k. It is event in any american sport first game gets biggest crowd
     
  2. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Do you even know how AVERAGE attendance is figured out? My guess is you don't but then again I'm not surprised.
     
  3. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Do you understand that every american sport even baseball and basketball first game of season almost all arenas and stadiums are sold out. But i care about soccer so mls after 1st match attendance goes back to normal in league with out pro/rel abd football iq sophiztication of mid table epl team from 90s
     
  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Crawleybus, this you?
     
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  6. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Andy Holt having another moan... who'd have guessed it?
     
  7. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    No?
     
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is crazy. The Saudi government should be allowed to spend as much sporting merit as it wants!
     
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  9. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    All this talk of 'attendance' is going off point a bit.........Fact is Blackburn Rovers get an extremely impressive attendance that they wouldn't get if promotion was never open to them in the past, the present or if it was not open to them in the future. I was responding to somebody that scoffed at the attendances there and just pointing out some facts. Its only thanks to pro/rel that means a country the size of England, which is tiny compared to the US is able to have so many 'big' football clubs, with even some lower league clubs pulling in quite remarkable numbers. If Blackburn were always a 'minor' league club and they had no chance of getting back to the Premier League their attendances would be more 'Crawley Town' than Blackburn Rovers, in fact Crawley Towns' attendances, though still minor are at an all time high because of the fact that over the last 10 or so seasons they are playing at the highest level in their history......in 1983 their 'average' attendance was 207!!

    I would like to reiterate of course that pro/rel works so well in England because it is ideally sized and because of the sheer number of clubs, the US is a VERY different place which, if it had the density of clubs England has would have VERY many clubs in total, it may or it may not be as 'ideal' to have the same system as the one used in England (and other European countries ALL of which are a fraction of the size of the US).
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The Saudis DO spend what they want though don't they? Ultimately though they can outspend everyone else ten times over if they want to but it most certainly is NOT going to 'win' them anything!! At the end of the day they are going to need to perform for that. Like China before them the Saudi's outspending everyone else is not going to suddenly turn Saudi Arabia into the worlds most 'successful' football nation. If they want to offer players one million, ten million, hundred million pounds a week then good luck to them, its their choice and its the choice of players to go there if they want to................its not going to make Suadi Arabia win World Cups, its not even going to turn their football into the worlds 'most popular' either. It will be another good example (like China) showing that when it comes to the beautiful game 'money' is not the answer.
     
  11. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Seems like Holt's latest moan is actually about Salford City soliciting more investment. Amusingly, the person that he is arguing with is an... Accrington Stanley season ticket holder!
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Salford's rugby league Super League team also has no fans but a wealthy investor.
    People keep seeing potential in the city of Salford that never materializes, probably because most of the day it's literally in the shadow of Old Trafford.
     
  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #40513 M, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
    Their average attendance is higher than Accrington Stanley's.
     
  14. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You can look up this information and see for yourself where MLS ranks in average attendance amongst the world's leagues. It is constantly in the top 10. You have to be a special kind of stupid to think average attendance is only done for the 1st game of the season.
     
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  15. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Saudi, China, Mexico, MLS, Brazil, Qatar etc or any league outside the top 7-8 Euro leagues can spend whatever they like they'll never be a top league. It doesn't matter if they even have "Pro/Rel" (as many think that's the magic pill for MLS to become a top league) they'll never reach that goal.

    Europe will continue to dominate for the simple fact that they have UCL. The best players in the world want to compete in it and they also want to join the top European clubs which happen to be in the top 7-8 leagues in Europe. Europe has a big advantage over everyone else, unfortunately, and that isn't going to change anytime soon no matter if Saudi is paying $1B salaries to players.
     
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  16. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the moment, I think there is a "Soccer Bubble" ahead of the '26 World Cup.

    But obviously not having relegation helps maintain values.

    Connected yes but wouldn't say hand and hand. The Women's game continued to grow even as they struggled to get a domestic league going.

    Not sure what you mean here.

    Strongly disagree here. Don't think it's because of immigration considering we've had massive immigration our entire history. Also don't think it has a limit.
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Professional Soccer 2022/23 or
    2023 average attendances

    1. Bundesliga 42,993
    2. Premier League 40,217
    3. La Liga 29,570
    4. Italian Serie A 29,464
    5. Brazilian Serie A 26,524
    6. Ligue Un 23,813
    7. 2.Bundesliga 22,212
    8. MLS 22,111
    9. Liga MX 22,045

    North American Pro League Sports Attendances
    NFL 69,389
    MLB 29,114
    CFL 22,393
    MLS 22,111
    Liga MX 22,045
    NBA 18,077
    NHL 17,101
    XFL 14,443
    NWSL 10,432
    USFL ?
    WNBA 6,615
    USL Championship 5,803
    Canadian Premier League 3,865
    Liga de Expansion MX 2,833
    USL League One 2,453

    College Football Conference (Teams) Attendance
    Southeastern (14) 77,080
    Big Ten (14) 67,106
    Big 12 (14) 53,813
    Atlantic (14) 49,255
    Pac 12 (12) 48,660
    American Athletic (14) 23,804
    Mountain West (12) 23,502
     
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  18. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What exactly are you trying to show? Again, you are comparing apples to oranges here. Cross league average attendances aren't taking any of the previous anomalies between different countries and different leagues into account, for example an average of 77'000 but only 8 home games is actually less in total than 50'000 over a 19 home game season.
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The "Soccer Bubble" will come after the '26 World Cup and I think USL teams need to be in a position to exploit that.

    As does the low debt, low costs and stadium ownership.

    Although it's dwarfed by the big 3 in the US and the big 4 soccer leagues in Europe, don't forget that MLS has:
    • the 6th most valuable TV contract
    • the 6th highest total revenue
    of any soccer league globally (according to Wikipedia).

    Total MLS revenue in 2023 was 7% less than Ligue Un, so with their TV contract issues and the extra revenue MLS is reporting already this could be the year MLS overtakes them.

    Obviously that revenue has to be split 30 ways rather than 18.

    If you go to any MLS game outside of maybe a couple of border states, most of the crowd are white and speaking with American accents, and most of the Hispanic fans are speaking English.

    In fact at the Nations League semi-final I went to in Vegas, I'd say that 90% of the Mexican fans spoke English and sang the US national anthem.

    The idea that immigrants are driving MLS attendances is ridiculous to anyone who actually attends MLS matches.
     
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  20. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And... 29,000 over 81 home games?
     
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  21. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Well quite, my point exactly. Don't forget the density too, for example how easy is it for Blackburn to attract fans when there are another 92 pro clubs all a short drive away. It would be like the LA pro baseball team having 92 other pro baseball teams all in the lower 3rd of California.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look if you don't want to take into account the posts about attendances that's up to you.
     
  23. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I wasn't having a 'dig', I was just wondering in what context you are quoting them?
     
  24. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But again, you can't compare a country where 80% of sports viewers watch soccer and a large majority consider it their favorite sport, to one where 12% of sports viewers watch soccer and 7% consider it their favorite sport. Statistically, there are as many people interested in the game in an English town of 120,000 as there are in a US city of 800,000.
     
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  25. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Well quite, but there again you don't take into account how easy or hard it is to get tickets, the cost of tickets, when the game is played, how many other local games are being played at the same time (there is an incredible 'density' of sport in the UK, a size thing again), also for example, football is my favourite sport but I can NEVER get any bloody tickets for my team and subsequently I watch a LOT more 'live' sport that isn't football!

    Like I said its comparing apples to oranges.
     

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